Author Topic: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park  (Read 4591 times)

moysider

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #75 on: March 20, 2017, 12:12:26 AM »
Do mayo fans realise that when cavan attached with no speed on occasion, Mayo got the exact same amount of players behind the ball. Every team is doing it, there was nothing extraordinary about how cavan set up today. Mayo just seemed very low on pace and urgency to me.

In fairness Mayo played more open than Cavan! There was never going to be a one on one high ball played into the Cavan goalmouth. The way to beat Cavan today was to mimic Cavan. When Mayo were 5 points up they should have shut up shop and let Cavan do the running. Instead they played like a team who were behind.

Mayo have been sh*te in the league now for almost 7 years. To top it off McHale road is no fortress for us. The themes we are debating today have been the same themes in other league campaigns. We have had a lot of luck staying up over that period. Our luck could run out this year. (And it might not be the end of the world!)

We are a gift for any team to play against that want's a bit of a boost.
Cavan today, for example, would be expecting that they would be able to get a forward inside isolated 1 on 1. When that defender is Keith Higgins he is going to give away several yards off his man as well as a few inches and size. Snap!   
 Defend narrow. That swamps down a lot of Mayo's best runners from deep and right now we don't have wing forwards that can beat players down the line. A sweeper or 2 and ball into ff line is a waste of time as well.

bucko

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #76 on: March 20, 2017, 12:40:07 AM »
Doesn't help either tho when our build up play is slow and lateral  and gives time for the opposition time to get their numbers back and set up. When we played Tyrone in the quarter final we used Dillon as the out option to get the ball back up the pitch as quickly as possible after we turned possession back from Tyrone. It put Tyrone under pressure and yielded frees from rash tackling by Tyrone defenders rushing back. Today we worked the ball through the hands out of defence for the most part, played right into Cavan's hands. In relation to McLoughlins role, has the tactic of him as a sweeper been abandoned altogether? I just would of thought that as he seemed to have settled into the role by the end of the championship that the league would've been used to further bed it down and develop it. Right now other than man to man and just getting numbers back we aren't playing any obvious kind of defensive set up in this league.

moysider

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #77 on: March 20, 2017, 01:06:38 AM »
Doesn't help either tho when our build up play is slow and lateral  and gives time for the opposition time to get their numbers back and set up. When we played Tyrone in the quarter final we used Dillon as the out option to get the ball back up the pitch as quickly as possible after we turned possession back from Tyrone. It put Tyrone under pressure and yielded frees from rash tackling by Tyrone defenders rushing back. Today we worked the ball through the hands out of defence for the most part, played right into Cavan's hands. In relation to McLoughlins role, has the tactic of him as a sweeper been abandoned altogether? I just would of thought that as he seemed to have settled into the role by the end of the championship that the league would've been used to further bed it down and develop it. Right now other than man to man and just getting numbers back we aren't playing any obvious kind of defensive set up in this league.

The McLoughlin sweeper thing will kick in again later I expect. Or somebody else doing that role. My biggest concern is 10 and 12. With DOC off colour we are not stretching teams and they can defend narrow. McLoughlin as a pure wing forward has to be considered now. Hopefully DOC will get back fresh later. Boland is doing very well but more of a play maker and finisher than a player that can tear by players and break down massed defence.

Maroon Manc

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #78 on: March 20, 2017, 04:10:19 PM »
Whats the story with Cafferkey, must be about 12 months since he last played?

For all the stick Doherty gets he certainly adds pace to that Mayo front 6 which was a noticeable miss yesterday. The younger forwards who've come into the panel in recent years appear to lack pace too, haven't seen enough of Loftus but he didn't look like he was that quick yesterday.

I certainly wouldn't be writing Mayo off just yet, they've a habit of peaking at the right time of the season but I'd much rather be playing Mayo in mid June rather than the middle of August.

Captain Obvious

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2017, 04:24:30 PM »
Whats the story with Cafferkey, must be about 12 months since he last played?

For all the stick Doherty gets he certainly adds pace to that Mayo front 6 which was a noticeable miss yesterday. The younger forwards who've come into the panel in recent years appear to lack pace too, haven't seen enough of Loftus but he didn't look like he was that quick yesterday.

I certainly wouldn't be writing Mayo off just yet, they've a habit of peaking at the right time of the season but I'd much rather be playing Mayo in mid June rather than the middle of August.
Do you think Mayo were at their peak last August in their less than impressive performances against Tyrone and Tipperary?

Mayo stayed up last year on scoring difference that league form was brought into the championship to allow Galway topple them in June. A repeat this summer and Galway will beat Mayo
again.

Well done to Cavan yesterday. What makes the NFL great is shock results like that
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 04:26:09 PM by Captain Obvious »

Maroon Manc

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2017, 04:43:39 PM »
Whats the story with Cafferkey, must be about 12 months since he last played?

For all the stick Doherty gets he certainly adds pace to that Mayo front 6 which was a noticeable miss yesterday. The younger forwards who've come into the panel in recent years appear to lack pace too, haven't seen enough of Loftus but he didn't look like he was that quick yesterday.

I certainly wouldn't be writing Mayo off just yet, they've a habit of peaking at the right time of the season but I'd much rather be playing Mayo in mid June rather than the middle of August.
Do you think Mayo were at their peak last August in their less than impressive performances against Tyrone and Tipperary?

Mayo stayed up last year on scoring difference that league form was brought into the championship to allow Galway topple them in June. A repeat this summer and Galway will beat Mayo
again.

Well done to Cavan yesterday. What makes the NFL great is shock results like that

I agree last years performances in August weren't great but still they did enough to win both those games.This group have only lost in August once since 2011 so they've been extremely consistent in the championship.  As a team they've been on a downward curve since 14 but yet they've could easily have beaten the Dubs in 15 & 16.

macdanger2

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2017, 10:27:05 PM »
On the one hand we should be delighted in Mayo with 14 scores from play against a massed defense that was very disciplined.
However .... no goal chances, no real drive & energy when the game was there in the melting pot ... didn't even see Colm Boyles tigerish traits. I think it was that deep down the players didn't think they would need to push themselves to the absolute limit to win this and then couldn't switch it on when needed. Its as if it didn't register with the players that Cavan were going to be playing for their lives.

A few things stood out to me though from a Mayo perspective.
Cillian ... am i allowed to actually even think this but when Mayo play against a massed disciplined defense, is he actually worth his place give his lack of pace? Add to this that his free-taking has gone off the boil (temporarily) and he actually looked like a passenger today.

The lack of the half back-line bursting through in support ... off the shoulder running. This has been a key and essential part of our game for 5 or 6 years. I didn't see it today even once from Boyler, not once from Vaughan while Leeroy only seemed to switch into this mode in last quarter. It was desperately needed today to burst through the massed defense.

Keith Higgins ..... definitely not a full back but the manner in which he has been standing off his opponent in the last few games is inexplicable. He has always stood a metre or 2 off his opponent but so far this season it was more like 3 or 4 metres. Is he still in pre-season mode or is it the start of a decline? (feels as blasphemous a thought as my comments on Cillian)

Danny Kirby .... a dream performance or ?? Scored 4 brilliant pts from play ... every one of them a peach of a score. However, does he really have the engine and athleticism to make a difference in the engine room during the summer. It felt in the second half when Cavan turned us over when we attacked that neither himself or Parsons were in a position to in any way stop or affect the Cavan counter attack. For sure he deserves to start the next day but himself and Parsons need to figure out and understand that we don't need the 2 of them in constant attack mode. Today was a day - in the second half in particular - that demanded that one of them was sort of sweeping in front of the number 6 position

Strength and conditioning .... while we have no reason (obviously) to question this given our summer performances, the one thing that stands out for me is the lack of pace in at least half a dozen players .... a lack of pace to the point where i would call some players slow ... Cillian, Donnie, Kirby, etc. And there are plenty of others that, while not slow, could do with an extra half yard. Now i'm no expert and i know its not as simple as lean forward slightly, front of foot only touching ground, high knees, don't put your arms across your body .... and simple stuff like that. But, surely the science behind the strength and conditioning is able to identify the muscle sets (for a specific player) that need to improve to increase that players explosiveness. I know there is only so much that can be done but it does seem like we have more than our fair share of medium paced players.

Anyway, i fully expect a high energy, blood and guts performance v Tyrone (we've only played a single half of football like that so far in the league ... 2nd half v Kerry). Tyrone of course will be wounded after Donegal game and will feel they have unfinished business after championship last year. So, should be a cracker if nothing else.... tough one to call

Hard to disagree with most of that.

I think a lot of our problems at the back could be solved by putting Keith Higgins in as the sweeper. He's lost the yard of pace needed for the fb line and he's been caught out a few times but would still have enough awareness and running to play that link role.

Less pressing but Durcan also needs to move out of the FB line
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 10:29:52 PM by macdanger2 »

moysider

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2017, 10:51:57 PM »
Whats the story with Cafferkey, must be about 12 months since he last played?

For all the stick Doherty gets he certainly adds pace to that Mayo front 6 which was a noticeable miss yesterday. The younger forwards who've come into the panel in recent years appear to lack pace too, haven't seen enough of Loftus but he didn't look like he was that quick yesterday.

I certainly wouldn't be writing Mayo off just yet, they've a habit of peaking at the right time of the season but I'd much rather be playing Mayo in mid June rather than the middle of August.

Cafferkey was coming along nicely but had a 'set-back' before FBD where he was expected to play a bit. The latest is that he is still 4 weeks rehab from resuming full training with panel. So it is still a long term thing with him. As Rochford said ' he'll be ready when he's ready'. Hopefully he gets back.

Jinxy

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2017, 11:03:38 PM »
Give Kirby a go at FF as well, see how he gets on.
He'd offer a physical presence and he's well able to kick a score.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

GalwayBayBoy

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2017, 11:44:13 PM »
Give Kirby a go at FF as well, see how he gets on.
He'd offer a physical presence and he's well able to kick a score.

Strikes me as the archetypal winter footballer who would not thrive when the Summer sets in and the ground hardens. Mayo actually have a few of that type already. Big lads who can kick a score but maybe lacking a bit in pace and mobility. Loftus is of that ilk as well I think. Physicality is the one thing they're not missing anyway.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:50:57 PM by GalwayBayBoy »

moysider

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2017, 12:12:53 AM »
Give Kirby a go at FF as well, see how he gets on.
He'd offer a physical presence and he's well able to kick a score.

Strikes me as the archetypal winter footballer who would not thrive when the Summer sets in and the ground hardens. Mayo actually have a few of that type already. Big lads who can kick a score but maybe lacking a bit in pace and mobility. Loftus is of that ilk as well I think. Physicality is the one thing they're not missing anyway.

Yeah. I don't think some realise how claustrophobic it is for inside forwards against blanket defences. Size, pace and skill inside are almost ineffective now. It's more like rugby now with line breaks and support runners running lines in the middle third that make openings and opportunities to get shots off. Pace is damn all good if there is no space. The best defenders have pace as well and teams have more defenders back than forwards means there is no space.

Jinxy

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2017, 10:42:17 AM »
Pace is king.
Look at the impact Cormac Costello had in the final last year when the game was in the melting point.
He was able to make that yard of space for himself to get the shot off.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

twohands!!!

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2017, 02:47:32 PM »
Give Kirby a go at FF as well, see how he gets on.
He'd offer a physical presence and he's well able to kick a score.

I'd say put him in the half-forward line if anywhere (and that's only if you had pace in both the other 2 half-forward line spots)
I think he's not that great defensively.

Maroon Manc

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2017, 03:21:59 PM »
I don't see Kirby as a full forward at this level, looks like he is accurate from distance and not afraid to take a shot on.

He's a player that would need pace around him to get the right balance into the team and looking at that Mayo midfield and forward line it certainly isn't blessed with much pace. I just don't see how you can get SOS, AOS, Parsons, Moran, COC and Kirby into the same 8-15.

rodney trotter

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Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2017, 03:31:08 PM »
There is not much to come into that Mayo team attacking wise. They will probably improve as they usally do, but a few of their players look deflated.  Only so many big defeats  they can take.