Author Topic: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017  (Read 12164 times)

shark

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2017, 02:55:12 PM »
Ah please, Mayo lads and moaning..we've had enough of it.

You've had the respective distances of travel laid out for you which show the venues to be totally logical and fair. Crokes have played 1 game in Gaelic Grounds before (and were almost beaten by Cratloe), Glenbeigh have never played there before of course. They have also never won the Kerry Junior championship before last year and yet, according to some clowns, they have some magical advantage over other clubs at the same grade?

Enough of this nonsense please.

No problem with venues! Only a few of the Kerry players will have played in them before.

On the grading system. Well you can only laugh at anyone who thinks that Kerry intermediate and Junior clubs are not graded higher than other counties! Once again (in theory) Mayo's 17th best team will get to play Kerry's 9th best. Kerry have a stronger intermediate and Junior championship because they have a very small Senior Championship. It stands to reason.

How did your Intermediate Champions of 2015 get on in the Senior championship of 2016?

I've had numerous arguments on here in the past with Kerry posters. They chose their system and it works for them. Nothing to stop other counties doing the same.
Their system is completely unbalanced and unfair in regard to how most other counties operate. The likes of their JFC winners playing division one football is a joke. As is their 8 team SFC.

For sure. The same reason why you hardly ever see the Dublin intermediate or junior champions make any impression in Leinster (Castleknock were an exception). Fingallians were, in theory, the 33rd best team in Dublin this year and got knocked out by Rosemount, Westmeath's 13th best.

Ball Hopper

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2017, 03:05:07 PM »
Is it a requirement that county league status determine the grade a club plays in? 

Certainly not so in Kerry, where the status is determined by senior, intermediate and junior club championships.  Win your level and you move up (with the exception of the occasional regrading year).  Kerry's county league exists to give non-county players regular games and nothing else it seems as there is no requirement that county men must be available for any league games. 

So why don't other counties adopt the same structure if it so good? 

gammysolo

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2017, 03:20:57 PM »
Is it a requirement that county league status determine the grade a club plays in? 

Certainly not so in Kerry, where the status is determined by senior, intermediate and junior club championships.  Win your level and you move up (with the exception of the occasional regrading year).  Kerry's county league exists to give non-county players regular games and nothing else it seems as there is no requirement that county men must be available for any league games. 

So why don't other counties adopt the same structure if it so good?

Not possible for other counties to adopt as especially in Munster and a lot top counties they have dual player issues. Hurling is only a hobby in Kerry and their hurlers have brought in a lot of outsiders. When you see 8 senior teams in Kerry and likes of Clare have 16 senior clubs. Its damaged limitation for other munster counties bar maybe Cork clubs in intermediate/junior football championships.

Zulu

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2017, 03:31:49 PM »
But Kerry have one of the best systems which provides plenty of competitive games for all their teams. I'm not sure if Clare have 16 senior club football teams but any county the size of Kerry with 16 senior club teams would just mean about half of them play in a competition they'll rarely win or rarely get relegated from. Kerry's senior championship, by virtue of having no deadwood, means it's ultra competitive as are the competitions below. Rather than complain about it, perhaps others should adopt a similar system?

shark

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2017, 03:46:39 PM »
But Kerry have one of the best systems which provides plenty of competitive games for all their teams. I'm not sure if Clare have 16 senior club football teams but any county the size of Kerry with 16 senior club teams would just mean about half of them play in a competition they'll rarely win or rarely get relegated from. Kerry's senior championship, by virtue of having no deadwood, means it's ultra competitive as are the competitions below. Rather than complain about it, perhaps others should adopt a similar system?

There are a few reasons. But the most obvious one is that there are not enough weekends in the year. If so player from an intermediate club can also play senior championship with his 'division/amalgamation', then a county board can not fix senior and intermediate championships on the same weekend. Club fixtures are already a joke without adding another layer of complexity.

It suits Kerry, they obviously make it work somehow. I couldn't ever speak for other counties, but I know that it would be completely unworkable in my own, where football and hurling get an equal billing.

shark

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2017, 03:55:22 PM »
Is it a requirement that county league status determine the grade a club plays in? 

Certainly not so in Kerry, where the status is determined by senior, intermediate and junior club championships.  Win your level and you move up (with the exception of the occasional regrading year).  Kerry's county league exists to give non-county players regular games and nothing else it seems as there is no requirement that county men must be available for any league games. 

So why don't other counties adopt the same structure if it so good?

Not only is it not a requirement, it's illegal under GAA rules. Some counties used to, until quite recently, determine championship promotion/relegation through league positions. I know Galway was one.  They were forced to change.

Captain Obvious

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2017, 04:05:30 PM »
Ultra competitive? Dr Crokes have won five of the last seven senior county titles and they streamrolled their way through the majority of those titles. The one noticeable feature of this Kerry club system is it was increased their chances of winning intermediate and junior All Irelands while a senior All Ireland hasn't been won by a Kerry club since Laune Rangers in 1996.

Zulu

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2017, 04:39:08 PM »
Ultra competitive? Dr Crokes have won five of the last seven senior county titles and they streamrolled their way through the majority of those titles. The one noticeable feature of this Kerry club system is it was increased their chances of winning intermediate and junior All Irelands while a senior All Ireland hasn't been won by a Kerry club since Laune Rangers in 1996.

That's irrelevant. If you've the top 8 teams competing and one of them proves to be far stronger than the rest then you still have as competitive a competition as you can have. Adding 4 teams or more from below will hardly change the eventual winner if they are steamrolling the top 7 teams already. The point is, by limiting the number of senior clubs they are keeping that as competitive as possible while also making the divisions below it more competitive too.

The fact Kerry are dominating at intermediate and junior but not at senior just goes to prove that they have the right system.

Zulu

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2017, 04:43:09 PM »
But Kerry have one of the best systems which provides plenty of competitive games for all their teams. I'm not sure if Clare have 16 senior club football teams but any county the size of Kerry with 16 senior club teams would just mean about half of them play in a competition they'll rarely win or rarely get relegated from. Kerry's senior championship, by virtue of having no deadwood, means it's ultra competitive as are the competitions below. Rather than complain about it, perhaps others should adopt a similar system?

There are a few reasons. But the most obvious one is that there are not enough weekends in the year. If so player from an intermediate club can also play senior championship with his 'division/amalgamation', then a county board can not fix senior and intermediate championships on the same weekend. Club fixtures are already a joke without adding another layer of complexity.

It suits Kerry, they obviously make it work somehow. I couldn't ever speak for other counties, but I know that it would be completely unworkable in my own, where football and hurling get an equal billing.

Cork have university and divisional teams and they are the biggest dual county in Ireland. They have senior, premier, intermediate and a couple of junior levels as far as I know and many of their divisional championships are taken very seriously so I don't see how the dual argument stands up. All counties should look to have more competitive leagues and more streamlined championships which Kerry are managing to do.


Ball Hopper

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2017, 04:44:35 PM »
Ultra competitive? Dr Crokes have won five of the last seven senior county titles and they streamrolled their way through the majority of those titles. The one noticeable feature of this Kerry club system is it was increased their chances of winning intermediate and junior All Irelands while a senior All Ireland hasn't been won by a Kerry club since Laune Rangers in 1996.

That's irrelevant. If you've the top 8 teams competing and one of them proves to be far stronger than the rest then you still have as competitive a competition as you can have. Adding 4 teams or more from below will hardly change the eventual winner if they are steamrolling the top 7 teams already. The point is, by limiting the number of senior clubs they are keeping that as competitive as possible while also making the divisions below it more competitive too.

The fact Kerry are dominating at intermediate and junior but not at senior just goes to prove that they have the right system.

By the way, Dr. Crokes had only one game out of 5 in the 2016 county championship with a winning margin greater than 7...hardly steamrolling.

Captain Obvious

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2017, 05:29:15 PM »
Quote
The fact Kerry are dominating at intermediate and junior but not at senior just goes to prove that they have the right system
Really? While intermediate and junior titles are lovely to win for those clubs and players it doesn't take away the fact that senior football be it county or club is number one in Kerry and If I was Kerry man I would be asking why it's going into 21st year since a Kerry club won a senior All Ireland.

Quote
By the way, Dr. Crokes had only one game out of 5 in the 2016 county championship with a winning margin greater than 7...hardly steamrolling



None of Dr Crokes last five county final wins were ultra competitive contests. If they got the chance to play  Austin Stack in the final two years ago they probably would have steamrolled past them yet through all that dominance they haven't been good enough to win the All Ireland will that change this year? Doubtful.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 05:31:06 PM by Captain Obvious »

shark

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2017, 05:43:32 PM »
But Kerry have one of the best systems which provides plenty of competitive games for all their teams. I'm not sure if Clare have 16 senior club football teams but any county the size of Kerry with 16 senior club teams would just mean about half of them play in a competition they'll rarely win or rarely get relegated from. Kerry's senior championship, by virtue of having no deadwood, means it's ultra competitive as are the competitions below. Rather than complain about it, perhaps others should adopt a similar system?

There are a few reasons. But the most obvious one is that there are not enough weekends in the year. If so player from an intermediate club can also play senior championship with his 'division/amalgamation', then a county board can not fix senior and intermediate championships on the same weekend. Club fixtures are already a joke without adding another layer of complexity.

It suits Kerry, they obviously make it work somehow. I couldn't ever speak for other counties, but I know that it would be completely unworkable in my own, where football and hurling get an equal billing.

Cork have university and divisional teams and they are the biggest dual county in Ireland. They have senior, premier, intermediate and a couple of junior levels as far as I know and many of their divisional championships are taken very seriously so I don't see how the dual argument stands up. All counties should look to have more competitive leagues and more streamlined championships which Kerry are managing to do.

But only guarantee their players 2 championship games. Club players don't want to go back to straight knock out for championship.

Reiterating my point, the fixture calendar is already a mess without making it more complex for fixture makers. If HQ ever get around to properly sorting it out from above then this discussion would be worth having. I'm not doubting the merits from a competitiveness point of view

oakleaflad

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2017, 06:13:20 PM »
Is it a requirement that county league status determine the grade a club plays in? 

Certainly not so in Kerry, where the status is determined by senior, intermediate and junior club championships.  Win your level and you move up (with the exception of the occasional regrading year).  Kerry's county league exists to give non-county players regular games and nothing else it seems as there is no requirement that county men must be available for any league games. 

So why don't other counties adopt the same structure if it so good?

Not only is it not a requirement, it's illegal under GAA rules. Some counties used to, until quite recently, determine championship promotion/relegation through league positions. I know Galway was one.  They were forced to change.
Eh, surely this is nonsense? In Derry if you're relegated from the Senior league you play Intermediate Championship the next year, if promoted the other way you play Senior Chapionship and the same between Intermediate and Junior.  I don't think this is illegal as i'm pretty sure it's done in plenty of other counties?

Note: The only exception is to apply to play senior championship which is very rarely done.

shark

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2017, 06:51:12 PM »
Is it a requirement that county league status determine the grade a club plays in? 

Certainly not so in Kerry, where the status is determined by senior, intermediate and junior club championships.  Win your level and you move up (with the exception of the occasional regrading year).  Kerry's county league exists to give non-county players regular games and nothing else it seems as there is no requirement that county men must be available for any league games. 

So why don't other counties adopt the same structure if it so good?

Not only is it not a requirement, it's illegal under GAA rules. Some counties used to, until quite recently, determine championship promotion/relegation through league positions. I know Galway was one.  They were forced to change.
Eh, surely this is nonsense? In Derry if you're relegated from the Senior league you play Intermediate Championship the next year, if promoted the other way you play Senior Chapionship and the same between Intermediate and Junior.  I don't think this is illegal as i'm pretty sure it's done in plenty of other counties?

Note: The only exception is to apply to play senior championship which is very rarely done.

Did a little digging. This is what I based my comment on:

http://connachttribune.ie/major-overhaul-of-county-football-on-the-cards/

It seems Galway were made to change as the Connacht Council found them to be in contravention of the rules. Maybe the Connacht Council were wrong, it's hard to tell from the article.

oakleaflad

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Re: All-Ireland Club Championship Fixtures Jan-Feb-March 2017
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2017, 07:02:55 PM »
Is it a requirement that county league status determine the grade a club plays in? 

Certainly not so in Kerry, where the status is determined by senior, intermediate and junior club championships.  Win your level and you move up (with the exception of the occasional regrading year).  Kerry's county league exists to give non-county players regular games and nothing else it seems as there is no requirement that county men must be available for any league games. 

So why don't other counties adopt the same structure if it so good?

Not only is it not a requirement, it's illegal under GAA rules. Some counties used to, until quite recently, determine championship promotion/relegation through league positions. I know Galway was one.  They were forced to change.
Eh, surely this is nonsense? In Derry if you're relegated from the Senior league you play Intermediate Championship the next year, if promoted the other way you play Senior Chapionship and the same between Intermediate and Junior.  I don't think this is illegal as i'm pretty sure it's done in plenty of other counties?

Note: The only exception is to apply to play senior championship which is very rarely done.

Did a little digging. This is what I based my comment on:

http://connachttribune.ie/major-overhaul-of-county-football-on-the-cards/

It seems Galway were made to change as the Connacht Council found them to be in contravention of the rules. Maybe the Connacht Council were wrong, it's hard to tell from the article.

Strange as from what I can take, how Galway used to be run (and deemed to be against the rules) is currently how things are run in the Tyrone leagues/championships unless i'm missing something?