Author Topic: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17  (Read 7341 times)

thewobbler

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2017, 04:25:46 PM »
J70, are you really going here?

There shouldn't be a "quota", just a dollop of common sense.

The best player in any given position could of course be a MacLarnon player. But the fact is that over the course of a season, someone playing "A" grade football will come up against a greater number of quality opponents than someone playing "B" grade football. This is a fact.

So, standing out at the "A" grade is a bigger challenge, and anyone who does it regularly, deserves to be recognised as in the running for an award.

To balance this up, just so as we are comparing apples with apples, then I'd suggest that the best players at "B" grade should have to dominate games every single week to be considered on the same pedestal.

If you can't agree with that, then let's leave it there. 

If you can agree with it, well you're the one with the scientific background. How much of an anomaly would it be that there is a greater number of continually outstanding performers at a lower level, than regularly outstanding performers at a higher level?



J70

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2017, 04:32:19 PM »
J70, are you really going here?

There shouldn't be a "quota", just a dollop of common sense.

The best player in any given position could of course be a MacLarnon player. But the fact is that over the course of a season, someone playing "A" grade football will come up against a greater number of quality opponents than someone playing "B" grade football. This is a fact.

So, standing out at the "A" grade is a bigger challenge, and anyone who does it regularly, deserves to be recognised as in the running for an award.

To balance this up, just so as we are comparing apples with apples, then I'd suggest that the best players at "B" grade should have to dominate games every single week to be considered on the same pedestal.

If you can't agree with that, then let's leave it there. 

If you can agree with it, well you're the one with the scientific background. How much of an anomaly would it be that there is a greater number of continually outstanding performers at a lower level, than regularly outstanding performers at a higher level?

That's a fair argument.

Rawhide

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2017, 06:42:08 PM »
Lads I gave up on the college All Stars along time ago, I don't even look at it anymore, which is why I am all the more surprised that Danske Bank is associated with this farce.

lenny

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2017, 07:01:18 PM »


So what are you saying? There should be a quota?

You acknowledge yourself that there can be outstanding players at McLarnan level. Which means some years the best player in a position could be from the lower competition. That Declan Browne played in a poor Tipp team in the late 90s does not detract one iota from his status as an outstanding forward in those years or cast doubt on his deserving a senior All Star. Or Karl Lacey in 06 or 09.

It's a 15 man game. Not basketball or beach volleyball. Sometimes the best players will be in poorer teams.

If better players are overlooked, then make that argument. But lambasting the selection of individuals for individual awards based on the performance of their 14 colleagues makes no sense.

At the least it should be based on someone or a group going to proper competitive games and assessing who are the all stars and not based solely on a trial system of meaningless short challenge games over a few days.  Best players in the lower grades will be obvious standouts and it will take a little longer with the stronger teams.  Given the level of sponsorship from Danske Bank the resources are available within the organisation for a selection system based on viewing players in competition and be given out at the end of the season and not before the championships begin.  What else is the sponsorship from Danske Bank being spent on?

Most schools games seem to be played during the week now and at all times of the day. How could any person or group of people get round all the matches even at macrory level let alone maclarnon unless they had some amount of free time on their hands. The trial system of selection is flawed but in the end 15 very good players will be selected. Better players often miss out which is unfair but the players selected are still of a high quality. There are some brilliant players playing maclarnon, wasn't there a lad o'connor who played for donegal in division 1 of the league on a sunday a couple of years ago and played in the maclarnon final a few days later.

thewobbler

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2017, 07:50:24 PM »


So what are you saying? There should be a quota?

You acknowledge yourself that there can be outstanding players at McLarnan level. Which means some years the best player in a position could be from the lower competition. That Declan Browne played in a poor Tipp team in the late 90s does not detract one iota from his status as an outstanding forward in those years or cast doubt on his deserving a senior All Star. Or Karl Lacey in 06 or 09.

It's a 15 man game. Not basketball or beach volleyball. Sometimes the best players will be in poorer teams.

If better players are overlooked, then make that argument. But lambasting the selection of individuals for individual awards based on the performance of their 14 colleagues makes no sense.

At the least it should be based on someone or a group going to proper competitive games and assessing who are the all stars and not based solely on a trial system of meaningless short challenge games over a few days.  Best players in the lower grades will be obvious standouts and it will take a little longer with the stronger teams.  Given the level of sponsorship from Danske Bank the resources are available within the organisation for a selection system based on viewing players in competition and be given out at the end of the season and not before the championships begin.  What else is the sponsorship from Danske Bank being spent on?

Most schools games seem to be played during the week now and at all times of the day. How could any person or group of people get round all the matches even at macrory level let alone maclarnon unless they had some amount of free time on their hands. The trial system of selection is flawed but in the end 15 very good players will be selected. Better players often miss out which is unfair but the players selected are still of a high quality. There are some brilliant players playing maclarnon, wasn't there a lad o'connor who played for donegal in division 1 of the league on a sunday a couple of years ago and played in the maclarnon final a few days later.

Each school manager is asked to name the best team they players against all season; a full team. Nobody from their own school.

MacRory players are weighted at 1.25, MacLarnon at 1.0.

Players in each line who get the most points fill the spots in that line.


It's not perfect and there will be bias (for example it's easy to imagine the 4 Tyrone school managers knowing each other players inside out and then over or under rewarding them accordingly) but 10+ spots would end up in the right hands.

The weighting against maclarnon might need adjusted from time to time, but in a nutshell if every other MacLarnon manager reckons you're shit hot, you'll make the team.

Kickham csc

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2017, 09:01:10 AM »


So what are you saying? There should be a quota?

You acknowledge yourself that there can be outstanding players at McLarnan level. Which means some years the best player in a position could be from the lower competition. That Declan Browne played in a poor Tipp team in the late 90s does not detract one iota from his status as an outstanding forward in those years or cast doubt on his deserving a senior All Star. Or Karl Lacey in 06 or 09.

It's a 15 man game. Not basketball or beach volleyball. Sometimes the best players will be in poorer teams.

If better players are overlooked, then make that argument. But lambasting the selection of individuals for individual awards based on the performance of their 14 colleagues makes no sense.

At the least it should be based on someone or a group going to proper competitive games and assessing who are the all stars and not based solely on a trial system of meaningless short challenge games over a few days.  Best players in the lower grades will be obvious standouts and it will take a little longer with the stronger teams.  Given the level of sponsorship from Danske Bank the resources are available within the organisation for a selection system based on viewing players in competition and be given out at the end of the season and not before the championships begin.  What else is the sponsorship from Danske Bank being spent on?

Most schools games seem to be played during the week now and at all times of the day. How could any person or group of people get round all the matches even at macrory level let alone maclarnon unless they had some amount of free time on their hands. The trial system of selection is flawed but in the end 15 very good players will be selected. Better players often miss out which is unfair but the players selected are still of a high quality. There are some brilliant players playing maclarnon, wasn't there a lad o'connor who played for donegal in division 1 of the league on a sunday a couple of years ago and played in the maclarnon final a few days later.

Each school manager is asked to name the best team they players against all season; a full team. Nobody from their own school.

MacRory players are weighted at 1.25, MacLarnon at 1.0.

Players in each line who get the most points fill the spots in that line.


It's not perfect and there will be bias (for example it's easy to imagine the 4 Tyrone school managers knowing each other players inside out and then over or under rewarding them accordingly) but 10+ spots would end up in the right hands.

The weighting against maclarnon might need adjusted from time to time, but in a nutshell if every other MacLarnon manager reckons you're shit hot, you'll make the team.

School sports in the states have all state awards, but have them divided into categories to reflect school size and level of competition. For Ulster colleges, that would mean a MacRory All Star list, McLarnon All Star list, Level C All Star list etc. this would be the fairest of all systems

Walter Cronc

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2017, 12:37:05 PM »
Its a complete load of tosh. Players only attend as it helps them on accessing the Elite athlete scholarship at University meaning reduced or no fees. The Queens U16s one is an even bigger farce.

Of the top of my head recent Derry players not to get an All Star include Conor Glass, Shane McGuigan and even Fergal Doherty! I'm sure there are many more across Ulster.

Colleges football is a means to an end but with teachers occupying senior positions within Ulster GAA, players and parents will be brainwashed into thinking its the be all and end all.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 12:38:44 PM by Walter Cronc »

Rawhide

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2017, 10:37:29 PM »
Its a complete load of tosh. Players only attend as it helps them on accessing the Elite athlete scholarship at University meaning reduced or no fees. The Queens U16s one is an even bigger farce.

Of the top of my head recent Derry players not to get an All Star include Conor Glass, Shane McGuigan and even Fergal Doherty! I'm sure there are many more across Ulster.

Colleges football is a means to an end but with teachers occupying senior positions within Ulster GAA, players and parents will be brainwashed into thinking its the be all and end all.

+one
For Conor Glass not to get one was just incredulous, it's not like nobody knew him, or he wasn't outstanding at that level, he won  hogan and was it two or three Mac Rory's, being captain of one. Without doubt the most embarrassing omissions. Oh i forgot to mention he didn't get one in his last year because he couldn't make the TRAILS due to being injured, but captained St Pats on St Patrick's day, in the final, in a game televised live, to the title, still couldn't get one, 😂😂😂😂😂

Brick Tamlin

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 11:41:22 AM »
Congrats to St Colmans Newry on reaching another McCrory Cup Final.
Excellent team performance last night to get a measure of revenge on St Ronans for last years hiccup.

Orior

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2017, 04:35:09 PM »
St Mary's missed a bagful of points on Wednesday and St Pauls were lucky to sneak a draw.

I expect Magherafelt to win the replay and hopefully get stuffed by Violet Hill in the final.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

BennyHarp

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2017, 10:30:03 AM »
St Mary's missed a bagful of points on Wednesday and St Pauls were lucky to sneak a draw.

I expect Magherafelt to win the replay and hopefully get stuffed by Violet Hill in the final.

Replay is being streamed live on Armagh TV tonight for anyone interested.
That was never a square ball!!

Walter Cronc

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2017, 10:41:41 AM »
A potential Colmans v Convent final. Enough for any Maghera man to be sick. Ah feck it. C'mon SMG.

dec

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2017, 08:03:24 PM »
St Mary's missed a bagful of points on Wednesday and St Pauls were lucky to sneak a draw.

I expect Magherafelt to win the replay and hopefully get stuffed by Violet Hill in the final.

Replay is being streamed live on Armagh TV tonight for anyone interested.


http://armaghgaa.net/armaghtv/

BennyHarp

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2017, 08:57:23 PM »
Great game! St Mary's won by 1 point. Free kick with last kick of the game!
That was never a square ball!!

Targetman

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2017, 09:11:09 PM »
Great result for St.Marys, hope they go on and win it now