Author Topic: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17  (Read 8745 times)

Fionntamhnach

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Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« on: September 24, 2016, 01:40:15 AM »
Usually there's such a topic thrown up every September over the last few years, but I haven't seen one yet so I may as well create one.


I can't recall how the Rannafast went in 2014/15 to give a rough guide to the MacRory Cup so maybe someone else can fill that in. Off the field, the big shakeup is now that there is one single schools GAA body in Ulster with the merger of the Colleges and Vocational Schools boards. Unfortunately so far there seems to be little practical information on what grade of competition each school is competing in at each age level outside of the schools themselves. I know there is at least five grades for football (the old colleges structure had three) and either three or four for hurling. While there's likely to be little notable difference in "A" grade competitions at least in the short term, it's going to take at least a couple of years for lower grades to effectively sort themselves out so that some schools that might be in D or E grades aren't so overwhelmingly strong that they should ideally be competing at C or even B grade instead.
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Take Your Points

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2016, 10:29:45 AM »
Bummer, how to you feel about the take over and abolition of the Vocational Schools organisation and competitions by the Colleges Council that has been pulling schools across to itself until it reached the critical mass to ensure that the Ulster Council would make the changes they have long desired? The old county structure has been completely removed.

Jimmy

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2016, 04:02:50 PM »
The corresponding Rannafast Cup was won by St McCartan's Monaghan beating St Mary's Magherafelt in the final with them beating St Pat's Caven and St Pius Magherafelt in the semi finals respectively.

The groups for this year's MacRory are:

Group A
Patrician High Carrickmacross, St Mary's Magherafelt, Colman's, Omagh and Caven

Group B
Lurgan, Bessbrook, Dungannon, The Abbey and St Mccarten's

Group C
St Pat's Armagh, Maghera, Enniskillen and St Mary's Belfast

I would know more about Maghera more than any of the other schools involved. There is a lot of turnover in their team from last year so I think they will find it difficult to make an impact this year.

Nice to see Belfast back in the MacRory.

Fionntamhnach

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2016, 07:29:31 PM »
Bummer, how to you feel about the take over and abolition of the Vocational Schools organisation and competitions by the Colleges Council that has been pulling schools across to itself until it reached the critical mass to ensure that the Ulster Council would make the changes they have long desired? The old county structure has been completely removed.
Well strictly speaking, both councils were abolished to make way for a new one but it's outcome has been inevitable for about the past decade or so, following along recommendations at All-Ireland level with the effective abolition of Vocational Schools championships at Intercounty, Under 18 & Under 16 levels a few years ago. I remember in my time talking to those involved with VS competitions outside of Ulster during the noughties and they often told of how structures there were looking gloomy in their own counties. The split model could have continued for a few years yet, I know that most of the Donegal schools weren't happy with the now new set up, but it's come to pass.


Much of the new plans within the Ulster Schools Council do follow that of the old Colleges though which is a bit of an adjustment to make for those schools used to the VS running of competitions - whereas the Colleges had their competitions played at each year group during a part of the academic year, the vocational schools council had a parallel model of running U14, U16 & U18 competitions together with county competitions due to be wrapped up by Christmas, Ulster championship games taking place in January/February/early March with the All-Ireland ties afterwards. Another is for such schools now to have active competitions in Years 9 & 11 (in the north) at U13 & U15 levels, in Tyrone there used to be 2nd & 4th Year leagues but they hadn't been run for some time. As I said it'll take at least a couple of years for things to settle and for schools to be properly graded at the right levels, the experience of the play-offs in the last few years of the MacLaron/Markey Cup and Nolan/Ward Cup winners suggests that some schools who have been thrown in to D & E competitions this year - especially those with large enrollments - could actually compete well at B or C levels, while some of the old Colleges' schools that competed normally at C or even B levels could in future end up playing in lower grades.
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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2016, 07:19:35 PM »
The interesting situation will be when pupils transfer at Post-16 level.  In the past these were mostly between vocational and colleges institutions but now will be between schools A to A to B, C, etc to A or B schools.

Fionntamhnach

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2016, 07:14:36 PM »
Ulster Schools' GAA website now online.


http://www.danskebankulsterschoolsgaa.com/
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Disillusioned

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2016, 11:35:23 PM »
Ulster Schools' GAA website now online.
http://www.danskebankulsterschoolsgaa.com/

Informative website.  Interesting to see the referees that are available to the schools and that there are referees willing to come over from London in addition to those from Derry.

http://www.danskebankulsterschoolsgaa.com/more-information/inter-county-referees/

« Last Edit: October 16, 2016, 10:59:02 AM by Disillusioned »
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Orior

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 11:00:20 PM »
Ulster Schools' GAA website now online.
http://www.danskebankulsterschoolsgaa.com/

Informative website.  Interesting to see the referees that are available to the schools and that there are referees willing to come over from London in addition to those from Derry.

http://www.danskebankulsterschoolsgaa.com/more-information/inter-county-referees/

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theticklemister

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2016, 01:04:49 PM »
Je what's the craic there?

Nanderson

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2016, 04:04:44 PM »
Are schools at MacRory level coached by teachers within the school or do they have coaches come in from outside the school to manage them?

Fionntamhnach

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2016, 12:22:19 AM »
Drumragh College became the first ever school from the Integrated sector to win an Ulster football title last Monday winning the JJ Reily Cup.


http://www.danskebankulsterschoolsgaa.com/match_reports/drumragh-win-first-ulster-title/
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thewobbler

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2017, 01:37:02 PM »
We all know that the Colleges All-Stars have been something of a running joke since they were brought in, largely due to Abbey CBS's individual success being an inverted pyramid to the school's success.

But this year is a truly outstanding example of "who the hell selects this shite, do they even watch football?".

Over half of this year's team played at MacLarnon level, and only 5 of the 15 can actually win the MacRory this season (even though 12 teams remain).

Now I'm as capable of being elitist as any man, but surely to feck, it's not elitist to point out that this is upside down? I mean of course their are outstanding players at MacLarnon level, but there simply has to be many more of them at MacRory level.

Have the liberal lefties taken hold of the voting system?


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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2017, 02:15:46 PM »
We all know that the Colleges All-Stars have been something of a running joke since they were brought in, largely due to Abbey CBS's individual success being an inverted pyramid to the school's success.

But this year is a truly outstanding example of "who the hell selects this shite, do they even watch football?".

Over half of this year's team played at MacLarnon level, and only 5 of the 15 can actually win the MacRory this season (even though 12 teams remain).

Now I'm as capable of being elitist as any man, but surely to feck, it's not elitist to point out that this is upside down? I mean of course their are outstanding players at MacLarnon level, but there simply has to be many more of them at MacRory level.

Have the liberal lefties taken hold of the voting system?

It's the usual politics in all star selection that is exaggerated this year with the new single body running the show.  Therefore, the awards are being distributed to show that all schools are equally considered and encouraged.

Schools are invited to send their best players and then selection is based on a small number of games which are more often than not one sided affairs that don't allow many good players to come to the fore.  The number of players at the trial from a school relates to its grading in competitions which should mean that you would have to be a really top player to come through from a school competing in the lower grades given how many would be present from McRory sides.

This wouldn't be so bad if the award of a colleges all-star had no currency but it is a factor used in gaining elite athlete status in universities and a place on a course by lowering the grades needed for entry by elite athletes.  Check out how many of the colleges all stars will be on county minor squads later in the year and making an impact for their sides as the star players. 

The award of a colleges all star has never been measured by looking at the players in competitions where their true mettle over the season up to Christmas comes to the fore or even in the short championship season of the cup competitions.

Colleges All stars 2015
Abbey CBS, Newry
Omagh CBS (2)
Patrician, Carrickmacross
St Colman’s, Newry
St Columb’s, Derry
St Mary’s, Magherafelt
St Michael’s, Enniskillen
St Patrick’s, Armagh
St Patrick’s, Cavan
St Patrick’s, Maghera
St Paul’s, Bessbrook (2)
St Ronan’s, Lurgan (2)

Colleges All stars 2016
Abbey Vocational School, Donegal
Holy Trinity College, Cookstown
OLASP Knock (2)
Omagh CBS
Our Lady’s Secondary School, Castleblaney (2)
St Eunan’s College, Letterkenny
St Mary’s College, Limavady
St Mary’s Grammar School, Magherafelt
St Patrick’s College, Maghera
St Pius X College, Magherafelt (2)
St Ronan’s College, Lurgan (2)


« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 02:18:08 PM by Take Your Points »

J70

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2017, 03:14:13 PM »
We all know that the Colleges All-Stars have been something of a running joke since they were brought in, largely due to Abbey CBS's individual success being an inverted pyramid to the school's success.

But this year is a truly outstanding example of "who the hell selects this shite, do they even watch football?".

Over half of this year's team played at MacLarnon level, and only 5 of the 15 can actually win the MacRory this season (even though 12 teams remain).

Now I'm as capable of being elitist as any man, but surely to feck, it's not elitist to point out that this is upside down? I mean of course their are outstanding players at MacLarnon level, but there simply has to be many more of them at MacRory level.

Have the liberal lefties taken hold of the voting system?

So what are you saying? There should be a quota?

You acknowledge yourself that there can be outstanding players at McLarnan level. Which means some years the best player in a position could be from the lower competition. That Declan Browne played in a poor Tipp team in the late 90s does not detract one iota from his status as an outstanding forward in those years or cast doubt on his deserving a senior All Star. Or Karl Lacey in 06 or 09.

It's a 15 man game. Not basketball or beach volleyball. Sometimes the best players will be in poorer teams.

If better players are overlooked, then make that argument. But lambasting the selection of individuals for individual awards based on the performance of their 14 colleagues makes no sense.

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Re: Ulster Schools GAA 2016/17
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2017, 04:17:06 PM »


So what are you saying? There should be a quota?

You acknowledge yourself that there can be outstanding players at McLarnan level. Which means some years the best player in a position could be from the lower competition. That Declan Browne played in a poor Tipp team in the late 90s does not detract one iota from his status as an outstanding forward in those years or cast doubt on his deserving a senior All Star. Or Karl Lacey in 06 or 09.

It's a 15 man game. Not basketball or beach volleyball. Sometimes the best players will be in poorer teams.

If better players are overlooked, then make that argument. But lambasting the selection of individuals for individual awards based on the performance of their 14 colleagues makes no sense.

At the least it should be based on someone or a group going to proper competitive games and assessing who are the all stars and not based solely on a trial system of meaningless short challenge games over a few days.  Best players in the lower grades will be obvious standouts and it will take a little longer with the stronger teams.  Given the level of sponsorship from Danske Bank the resources are available within the organisation for a selection system based on viewing players in competition and be given out at the end of the season and not before the championships begin.  What else is the sponsorship from Danske Bank being spent on?