Author Topic: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park  (Read 4478 times)

From the Bunker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6518
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2017, 07:35:41 PM »
Maybe Mayo did a lot of heavy training during the week.

Maybe they did a bit of training on Friday afternoon after the parade.

Maybe Cavan did their homework, had a plan and showed discipline in sticking to it?

Syferus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11346
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2017, 07:38:14 PM »
Maybe Mayo did a lot of heavy training during the week.

Maybe they did a bit of training on Friday afternoon after the parade.

Maybe Cavan did their homework, had a plan and showed discipline in sticking to it?

Cavan are and always have been a worse side than us, if that helps you put what happened to ye into perspective.

larryin89

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1456
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2017, 07:56:42 PM »
They may as well rename D2 the Connacht League.

We might survive yet . dumb fook
Not a sheep stole in Castlebar since 1986.

Itchy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2494
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2017, 09:29:27 PM »
Maybe Mayo did a lot of heavy training during the week.

Maybe they did a bit of training on Friday afternoon after the parade.

Maybe Cavan did their homework, had a plan and showed discipline in sticking to it?

Cavan are and always have been a worse side than us, if that helps you put what happened to ye into perspective.

Always have been? Count up the titles moron. We'd have to go down a division to find a team Roscommon are better than now.

bucko

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2017, 10:25:33 PM »
Two poor performances back to back now. We looked inept, with effort and urgency lacking in a lot of areas. Looked incapable of breaking down Cavan's massed defence and couldn't cope with their counter attacks either, pushing up too many players and leaving wide open spaces for Cavan to attack into. Struggled to get any decent foothold in midfield. Boyle, Vaughan, and Parsons have played a lot better, McLoughlin was anonymous while I'd say that was easily Cillian O'Connor's worst performance in a Mayo jersey. Durcan, Keegan in the second half, Kirby, O'Shea worked hard to keep us in it. Quantum leap in performance needed for next two Sundays, otherwise we'll be  going down to D2 with two serious beatings. Fair play to Cavan, they had a plan, stuck to it and worked hard, deserved the win.

blast05

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2017, 10:37:47 PM »
On the one hand we should be delighted in Mayo with 14 scores from play against a massed defense that was very disciplined.
However .... no goal chances, no real drive & energy when the game was there in the melting pot ... didn't even see Colm Boyles tigerish traits. I think it was that deep down the players didn't think they would need to push themselves to the absolute limit to win this and then couldn't switch it on when needed. Its as if it didn't register with the players that Cavan were going to be playing for their lives.

A few things stood out to me though from a Mayo perspective.
Cillian ... am i allowed to actually even think this but when Mayo play against a massed disciplined defense, is he actually worth his place give his lack of pace? Add to this that his free-taking has gone off the boil (temporarily) and he actually looked like a passenger today.

The lack of the half back-line bursting through in support ... off the shoulder running. This has been a key and essential part of our game for 5 or 6 years. I didn't see it today even once from Boyler, not once from Vaughan while Leeroy only seemed to switch into this mode in last quarter. It was desperately needed today to burst through the massed defense.

Keith Higgins ..... definitely not a full back but the manner in which he has been standing off his opponent in the last few games is inexplicable. He has always stood a metre or 2 off his opponent but so far this season it was more like 3 or 4 metres. Is he still in pre-season mode or is it the start of a decline? (feels as blasphemous a thought as my comments on Cillian)

Danny Kirby .... a dream performance or ?? Scored 4 brilliant pts from play ... every one of them a peach of a score. However, does he really have the engine and athleticism to make a difference in the engine room during the summer. It felt in the second half when Cavan turned us over when we attacked that neither himself or Parsons were in a position to in any way stop or affect the Cavan counter attack. For sure he deserves to start the next day but himself and Parsons need to figure out and understand that we don't need the 2 of them in constant attack mode. Today was a day - in the second half in particular - that demanded that one of them was sort of sweeping in front of the number 6 position

Strength and conditioning .... while we have no reason (obviously) to question this given our summer performances, the one thing that stands out for me is the lack of pace in at least half a dozen players .... a lack of pace to the point where i would call some players slow ... Cillian, Donnie, Kirby, etc. And there are plenty of others that, while not slow, could do with an extra half yard. Now i'm no expert and i know its not as simple as lean forward slightly, front of foot only touching ground, high knees, don't put your arms across your body .... and simple stuff like that. But, surely the science behind the strength and conditioning is able to identify the muscle sets (for a specific player) that need to improve to increase that players explosiveness. I know there is only so much that can be done but it does seem like we have more than our fair share of medium paced players.

Anyway, i fully expect a high energy, blood and guts performance v Tyrone (we've only played a single half of football like that so far in the league ... 2nd half v Kerry). Tyrone of course will be wounded after Donegal game and will feel they have unfinished business after championship last year. So, should be a cracker if nothing else.... tough one to call

« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 10:41:27 PM by blast05 »

highorlow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1541
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2017, 10:39:48 PM »
Pat Holmes came in for a fair amount of stick for his comments after a Tyrone league game s few years back.

Rochford deserves the same after his newstalk interview. My reading of it is that they had a choice to try and beat Cavan at their own game or engage our own game and see how it would pan out. We chose the latter. The question I would ask the management is where was plan B? We should have gone to the 1-14 Ulster formation as soon as we went 5 ahead.

The good thing is that 2 or 3 of our stalwarts are found out now rather than next summer. I still trust Rochford but it's time for bravery now and to start dropping some lads or change their positions.

What's the news on AOS?


moysider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6590
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2017, 10:51:53 PM »
Thought Parsons was good. One of the few that could run direct and not turn back. Kirby and O Shea kicked nice points but we need more pace and penetration from midfielders and half forwards.  MD Macauley cant kick a ball but he scatters men and opens things up. Last night pace and power from Paul Flynn, Darren O Sullivan and Kevin McManamen shook things up for each team. Donegal have real go- forward pace now too. We seem to be going the other way.
 Without an in-form Diarmuid O Connor we are struggling in this aspect. I would like to see Kevin McLoughlin concentrated on this type of role as well. I dunno what he was supposed to be doing today tbh. I don t think he did either. I know we have injury issues but todays selection did not make a lot of sense. The Dublin game showed us up to be slow. Yet today we put out a slower team.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 11:01:34 PM by moysider »

Syferus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11346
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2017, 11:00:57 PM »
Pat Holmes came in for a fair amount of stick for his comments after a Tyrone league game s few years back.

Rochford deserves the same after his newstalk interview. My reading of it is that they had a choice to try and beat Cavan at their own game or engage our own game and see how it would pan out. We chose the latter. The question I would ask the management is where was plan B? We should have gone to the 1-14 Ulster formation as soon as we went 5 ahead.

The good thing is that 2 or 3 of our stalwarts are found out now rather than next summer. I still trust Rochford but it's time for bravery now and to start dropping some lads or change their positions.

What's the news on AOS?

Rochford comes off a bit daft in interviews but it's not like he's the only manager who relies on nonsense when talking to the media. McStay was talking about moral victories after taking a tanking today. And Gavin and Horan seem to think a smug smile is some sort of revolutionary deflection technique..

From the Bunker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6518
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2017, 11:11:34 PM »
No need for mass dropping of players (yet). But there has to be a bit of courage shown from the line. The blanket defense is here to stay. We played Tyrone at their own game last August. But for what ever reason we see ourselves as above doing the same against Galway, Monaghan and (now) Cavan!

I do understand that Mayo training is scattered at this time of the year. With a lot of the players living outside the county. Preparing for games can be difficult. We have been sh*te in the League year in year out since  2010, Just surviving relegation on many occasions, it's just the way it has been for us.

One bonus from today's result is that any talk of a League final have been put to bed. The Championship is all that matters and wasting energy on trying to win the league is not an option.

moysider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6590
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2017, 11:16:16 PM »
On the one hand we should be delighted in Mayo with 14 scores from play against a massed defense that was very disciplined.
However .... no goal chances, no real drive & energy when the game was there in the melting pot ... didn't even see Colm Boyles tigerish traits. I think it was that deep down the players didn't think they would need to push themselves to the absolute limit to win this and then couldn't switch it on when needed. Its as if it didn't register with the players that Cavan were going to be playing for their lives.

A few things stood out to me though from a Mayo perspective.
Cillian ... am i allowed to actually even think this but when Mayo play against a massed disciplined defense, is he actually worth his place give his lack of pace? Add to this that his free-taking has gone off the boil (temporarily) and he actually looked like a passenger today.

The lack of the half back-line bursting through in support ... off the shoulder running. This has been a key and essential part of our game for 5 or 6 years. I didn't see it today even once from Boyler, not once from Vaughan while Leeroy only seemed to switch into this mode in last quarter. It was desperately needed today to burst through the massed defense.

Keith Higgins ..... definitely not a full back but the manner in which he has been standing off his opponent in the last few games is inexplicable. He has always stood a metre or 2 off his opponent but so far this season it was more like 3 or 4 metres. Is he still in pre-season mode or is it the start of a decline? (feels as blasphemous a thought as my comments on Cillian)

Danny Kirby .... a dream performance or ?? Scored 4 brilliant pts from play ... every one of them a peach of a score. However, does he really have the engine and athleticism to make a difference in the engine room during the summer. It felt in the second half when Cavan turned us over when we attacked that neither himself or Parsons were in a position to in any way stop or affect the Cavan counter attack. For sure he deserves to start the next day but himself and Parsons need to figure out and understand that we don't need the 2 of them in constant attack mode. Today was a day - in the second half in particular - that demanded that one of them was sort of sweeping in front of the number 6 position

Strength and conditioning .... while we have no reason (obviously) to question this given our summer performances, the one thing that stands out for me is the lack of pace in at least half a dozen players .... a lack of pace to the point where i would call some players slow ... Cillian, Donnie, Kirby, etc. And there are plenty of others that, while not slow, could do with an extra half yard. Now i'm no expert and i know its not as simple as lean forward slightly, front of foot only touching ground, high knees, don't put your arms across your body .... and simple stuff like that. But, surely the science behind the strength and conditioning is able to identify the muscle sets (for a specific player) that need to improve to increase that players explosiveness. I know there is only so much that can be done but it does seem like we have more than our fair share of medium paced players.

Anyway, i fully expect a high energy, blood and guts performance v Tyrone (we've only played a single half of football like that so far in the league ... 2nd half v Kerry). Tyrone of course will be wounded after Donegal game and will feel they have unfinished business after championship last year. So, should be a cracker if nothing else.... tough one to call

That's good blast. The only thing I would disagree with is I can't see much hope for us v Tyrone or Donegal either. We are hopeless against teams that play with numbers back and today showed that if you defend narrow against us we are particularly hopeless.

Maybe Harrison is a better bet for the 3 role now because Higgins plays so far off his man it's ridiculous. That Cavan goal was a sucker punch waiting to happen all first half.
 Correct about frees as well.

Itchy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2494
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2017, 11:21:52 PM »
Do mayo fans realise that when cavan attached with no speed on occasion, Mayo got the exact same amount of players behind the ball. Every team is doing it, there was nothing extraordinary about how cavan set up today. Mayo just seemed very low on pace and urgency to me.

moysider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6590
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2017, 11:32:26 PM »
No need for mass dropping of players (yet). But there has to be a bit of courage shown from the line. The blanket defense is here to stay. We played Tyrone at their own game last August. But for what ever reason we see ourselves as above doing the same against Galway, Monaghan and (now) Cavan!

I do understand that Mayo training is scattered at this time of the year. With a lot of the players living outside the county. Preparing for games can be difficult. We have been sh*te in the League year in year out since  2010, Just surviving relegation on many occasions, it's just the way it has been for us.

One bonus from today's result is that any talk of a League final have been put to bed. The Championship is all that matters and wasting energy on trying to win the league is not an option.

Yeah. Trying to win the league wasn't something anybody was interested in, was it. Relegation is a worry though. Now, with the run in we have it's a possibility - a probability even. If we cant deal with Cavan/Monaghan blanket, it's hard to imagine how we can get the better of two teams that do that kind of thing even better. Our personnel will be similar and I actually believe the players are giving it their best shot. But we keep getting rope-a-doped. The players looked deflated and disillusioned in last couple of minutes today. 3 mins. injury time. I don't think we would have got another score if it was 10. It was a 2 point trouncing really.

moysider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6590
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2017, 11:44:35 PM »
Do mayo fans realise that when cavan attached with no speed on occasion, Mayo got the exact same amount of players behind the ball. Every team is doing it, there was nothing extraordinary about how cavan set up today. Mayo just seemed very low on pace and urgency to me.

Nail on head. Mayo would have done better if they had less primary possession, sat back and counter attacked. We just ran into a brick wall and got done on the counter.
 The other thing was that we did not get enough shots off from distance when we had the wind in first half.

From the Bunker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6518
    • View Profile
Re: Mayo v Cavan 19th March - MacHale Park
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2017, 11:48:08 PM »
Do mayo fans realise that when cavan attached with no speed on occasion, Mayo got the exact same amount of players behind the ball. Every team is doing it, there was nothing extraordinary about how cavan set up today. Mayo just seemed very low on pace and urgency to me.

In fairness Mayo played more open than Cavan! There was never going to be a one on one high ball played into the Cavan goalmouth. The way to beat Cavan today was to mimic Cavan. When Mayo were 5 points up they should have shut up shop and let Cavan do the running. Instead they played like a team who were behind.

Mayo have been sh*te in the league now for almost 7 years. To top it off McHale road is no fortress for us. The themes we are debating today have been the same themes in other league campaigns. We have had a lot of luck staying up over that period. Our luck could run out this year. (And it might not be the end of the world!)