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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Donnellys Hollow on October 27, 2009, 05:26:16 PM

Title: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on October 27, 2009, 05:26:16 PM
39-man panel for Ireland's upcoming Guinness Series of internationals against Australia, Fiji and South Africa:

Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
Neil Best (Northampton Saints)
Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)*
Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster)*
John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)*
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)*
Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)
Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster)*
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)*
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)*
Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)*

* Denotes uncapped player


Looks like the end of the road for Quinny, Girve and Mal O'Kelly. Good to see the likes of Cronin and O'Brien involved. Unlike O'Sullivan, Kidney doesn't appear to have any hesitation about giving the younger unproven talent a chance.

How does Gavin Duffy keep getting called up to these squads though?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Eastern_Pride on October 27, 2009, 05:44:15 PM
Just looking at this squad I can see that he may throw in a good few uncapped players against the Fijians. Also interesting to see that Kevin McLaughlin didn't get in despite his fantastic form of late.
I think that Earls and Sexton(and maybe O'Brien) are also going to be thrown in at the deep end, Sexton especially if O'Gara dosen't get his act together...and yeah how is Gavin Duffy still there?

My team v Australia                                    My Team v Fiji

15. Kearney                                             15.Kearney
14. Bowe                                                14.Bowe
13. O'Driscoll                                            13.O'Driscoll
12.Fitzgerald                                            12.Earls
11.Earls                                                   11.Horgan
10. O'Gara/Sexton                                    10.Sexton         
9. O Leary                                                9.Stringer
1.Hayes                                                   8.Heaslip
2.Flannery                                                7.O'Brien
3.Healy                                                    6.Ferris
4.O'Callaghan                                            5.O'Connell
5.O'Connell                                               4.O'Callaghan
6.Ferris                                                     3.Buckley
7.Wallace                                                  2.Flannery
8.Heaslip                                                   1.Healy
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: screenexile on October 27, 2009, 05:50:11 PM
Surely Humphries should be in there... he's been in great form anytime I've seen him except for his ridiculous beard. He's young enough though and him and Sexton are going to have to carry us over the next 5 years at least!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Eastern_Pride on October 27, 2009, 05:55:05 PM
Surely Humphries should be in there... he's been in great form anytime I've seen him except for his ridiculous beard. He's young enough though and him and Sexton are going to have to carry us over the next 5 years at least!
True a few notable omissions...as well as one or two questionable picks...Brett Wilkinson? Ah now....
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on October 27, 2009, 06:05:56 PM
Humphreys can't defend to save his life and the rest of his all round game doesn't make up for this weakness (unlike his older bro and ROG). I'd expect ROG to start both the Aus and SA tests with Johnny Sexton coming on around the hour mark.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: mc_grens on October 27, 2009, 06:45:02 PM
Duffy can play across the back line so he's good cover to have in your squad fir training purposes I'd have thought. Don't think he can realistically hope to make a matchday squad.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Olaf on October 29, 2009, 07:34:05 PM
Humphreys can't defend to save his life and the rest of his all round game doesn't make up for this weakness (unlike his older bro and ROG). I'd expect ROG to start both the Aus and SA tests with Johnny Sexton coming on around the hour mark.

ROG should not be anywhere near the Irish team . His form has been in free fall for years. Sexton looks like the pick of teh no 10s and the sooner he (and others) are given game time in this position the better.

iHumph is playing well at the moment but can be  a   tad flakey( like his brother in his younger days) but still well ahead of ROG (and that includes his "all round game"). Inability/unwillingness to tackle does not seem to have been a hindrance to ROG getting picked regularly  over the last number of years.

IHumph unlucky not to make the squad  as was Falloon. Like the look of the flanker O'Brien from Leinster.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Bord na Mona man on October 29, 2009, 09:16:04 PM
Australia and South Africa are very tough opposition to be trying out new players against.
When you need to usher in a changing of the guard at 1, 3 and 10, you'll be really throwing players in at the deep end against fairly brutish opposition.
For example, looking at how the Lions had big trouble at tighthead against a murderous South African front row, you'd have to be apprehensive over how Ireland will fare.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on October 30, 2009, 03:03:58 AM
iHumph is playing well at the moment but can be  a   tad flakey( like his brother in his younger days) but still well ahead of ROG (and that includes his "all round game"). Inability/unwillingness to tackle does not seem to have been a hindrance to ROG getting picked regularly  over the last number of years.

O'Gara hardly has an unwillingness to tackle. He simply lacks the basic technique to take down bigger men. In fairness to the guy, it doesn't stop him putting his body on the line.

Humphreys looks a decent player at provincial level but I for one am of the belief that he'd be badly exposed at international level. He's hardly a spring chicken at this stage and he's never really looked like establishing himself as a top class stand-off. O'Gara may be past his best but he still has the experience and big-match temperament. I know who I'd want over a last minute penalty to win a test match.

Johnny Sexton is the future but you wouldn't have picked him for the women's team this time last year. He should be given time to adapt to the international stage and not thrown in at the deep end like Cipriani was for England. He'll undoubtedly be our 10 for the next RWC but we have to be patient with him. International level is a huge step up from the Heineken Cup and I'd expect Kidney to rightly give preference to the experienced men while allowing the youngsters to develop gradually.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Olaf on October 30, 2009, 10:35:28 AM
iHumph is playing well at the moment but can be  a   tad flakey( like his brother in his younger days) but still well ahead of ROG (and that includes his "all round game"). Inability/unwillingness to tackle does not seem to have been a hindrance to ROG getting picked regularly  over the last number of years.

O'Gara hardly has an unwillingness to tackle. He simply lacks the basic technique to take down bigger men. In fairness to the guy, it doesn't stop him putting his body on the line.

Humphreys looks a decent player at provincial level but I for one am of the belief that he'd be badly exposed at international level. He's hardly a spring chicken at this stage and he's never really looked like establishing himself as a top class stand-off. O'Gara may be past his best but he still has the experience and big-match temperament. I know who I'd want over a last minute penalty to win a test match.
Johnny Sexton is the future but you wouldn't have picked him for the women's team this time last year. He should be given time to adapt to the international stage and not thrown in at the deep end like Cipriani was for England. He'll undoubtedly be our 10 for the next RWC but we have to be patient with him. International level is a huge step up from the Heineken Cup and I'd expect Kidney to rightly give preference to the experienced men while allowing the youngsters to develop gradually.

Personally I would want Sexton or iHumph taking that penalty.

Ireland don't have any more time and IMO these guys should have been handed the no 10 shirt long before now. Ireland won the GS despite O'Gara not because of him. Whilst he knoceked over the drop goal his form throughout the 6 Nations  was woeful.

A breath of fresh air at half back is what Ireland have needed for a long time now.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: AFS on November 06, 2009, 01:25:37 AM
What's the craic with Marcus Horan and some sort of career threatening condition?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2009, 03:13:46 AM
What's the craic with Marcus Horan and some sort of career threatening condition?

Sounds fairly ominous but no point jumping to conclusions without having any official word on what's wrong.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1105/1224258097420.html
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 10, 2009, 07:44:54 PM
Ireland 'A' v Tonga, Friday, 13 November, Ravenhill, 7:35pm

15. Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht)
14. Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster) Captain
13. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
12. Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
11. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

10. Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster)
9. Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

1. Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)
2. A.N. Other
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6. Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
7. Neil Best (Northampton Saints)
8. Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)

Replacements:

16. Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution/Munster)
17. Bryan Young (Ballymena/Ulster)
18. Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
19. Kevin McLaughlin (UCD/Leinster)
20. Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
21. Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht)
22. Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 10, 2009, 07:58:06 PM
Nice looking team, good balance between youth and experience, interesting to see how Hump Jnr gets on, he's doing a lot of work on his defence.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: thewobbler on November 10, 2009, 08:44:08 PM
Can any of you Munster fans confirm or deny that ever since ROG made his Ireland debut, he has been available for every single Irish international match?

I don't recall Humphreys ever getting a clear run at it after O'Gara's emergence and the only time I can remember him not starting since Humph retired was when he was rested for The Pacific Islands many moons ago.

If I'm right, this must be some sort of record breaking achievement. How can a fly-half not pick up knocks?



 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: DuffleKing on November 10, 2009, 10:08:11 PM
Can any of you Munster fans confirm or deny that ever since ROG made his Ireland debut, he has been available for every single Irish international match?

I don't recall Humphreys ever getting a clear run at it after O'Gara's emergence and the only time I can remember him not starting since Humph retired was when he was rested for The Pacific Islands many moons ago.

If I'm right, this must be some sort of record breaking achievement. How can a fly-half not pick up knocks?

By avoiding contact...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 11, 2009, 01:35:40 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/irish/8353396.stm

Team named, Cian Healy and Paddy Wallace for Horan and Darcy, only 2 changes from Welsh match in March
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: whiskeysteve on November 11, 2009, 01:46:23 PM
wallace and o'gara. no prizes for guessing where the aussies will bomb down...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 11, 2009, 02:36:41 PM
No real shocks there. Inside centre was always going to be the position up for grabs and Deccie has rightly given the nod to Wallace. D'Arcy isn't going well at the moment and Wallace brings a bit more creativity to the midfield. It would have been a shame to break up that back three by shifting either Bowe or Fitzgerald inside.

Looking forward to seeing how Healy gets on at international level. Ferris against Elsom should be very interesting! Hope Cronin and Sexton get some game time from the bench.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Gnevin on November 11, 2009, 02:40:05 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/irish/8353396.stm

Team named, Cian Healy and Paddy Wallace for Horan and Darcy, only 2 changes from Welsh match in March


When will the young players get a chance if the management never play them
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 11, 2009, 02:53:31 PM
Quote
When will the young players get a chance if the management never play them

What young players deserve their chance that aren't in the match squad?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: AZOffaly on November 11, 2009, 03:53:41 PM
Can any of you Munster fans confirm or deny that ever since ROG made his Ireland debut, he has been available for every single Irish international match?

I don't recall Humphreys ever getting a clear run at it after O'Gara's emergence and the only time I can remember him not starting since Humph retired was when he was rested for The Pacific Islands many moons ago.

If I'm right, this must be some sort of record breaking achievement. How can a fly-half not pick up knocks?

By avoiding contact...

To say O'Gara somehow chickens out of tackles is crazy. He's shit at it, but he's always trying to tackle. They usually just run straight over him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: DuffleKing on November 11, 2009, 04:19:14 PM

turning your ass and face away from the impact minimizes the risk of injury
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Master Yoda on November 11, 2009, 04:36:12 PM
f**k sake it doesn't matter if he is afraid to tackle or if hes just shit at it, it results in the same thing.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: AZOffaly on November 11, 2009, 04:54:16 PM
f**k sake it doesn't matter if he is afraid to tackle or if hes just shit at it, it results in the same thing.

It does matter. I'd prefer someone questions my ability rather than my character.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Gnevin on November 11, 2009, 05:48:32 PM
Quote
When will the young players get a chance if the management never play them

What young players deserve their chance that aren't in the match squad?

You hardly thing there will be a raft of changes do you? Not Kidney's style. Sexton will be lucky to start against Fiji.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Olaf on November 11, 2009, 07:03:21 PM
Quote
When will the young players get a chance if the management never play them

What young players deserve their chance that aren't in the match squad?






You hardly thing there will be a raft of changes do you? Not Kidney's style. Sexton will be lucky to start against Fiji.

How then can you move this team forward.

Front row, second row and in paricular half backs are in need of change.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - squad for the AIs announced
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 11, 2009, 07:50:58 PM

Quote
You hardly thing there will be a raft of changes do you? Not Kidney's style. Sexton will be lucky to start against Fiji.

It's hardly Dad's army - Kearney, Earls, Healy, Cronin, Ferris, Heaslip, Fitzgearld, O'Leary, Bowe and Sexton are all in the squad and are all 25 or younger, front row and 2nd row players don't hit their prime till there 30 plus. It's a very good squad, what more do expect?

O'Gara is the incumbent, this time last year I was watching Sexton struggle while playing AIL with Mary's, he is far from the 2nd coming. He will see action against Oz, start against Fiji and all going well he'll stake a claim for a start against SA.

We have issues at tight-head and openside and we'll never fill the vacum once BOD retires but Kidney is doing very very well as head coach and at the moment we are very lucky to have him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 11, 2009, 08:57:26 PM
Did people really expect wholesale changes from the Grand Slam team?

I don't think Sexton was ever going to be selected ahead of O'Gara for this match. People should remember how far Sexton has come in twelve months. As Dinny says, he couldn't kick snow off a rope this time last year and you wouldn't have put him in the in the women's team. He was hauled off against Castres at HT and Leinster had got in Holwell. Most people would have had Keatley ahead of him for Ireland. He will get twenty minutes on Sunday and the full game against Fiji to stake his claim.

The only one who I think is unlucky not to start is Leo Cullen. He's one of the most improved players in Irish rugby at the moment. I can understand why O'Callaghan was picked ahead of him though. He has the lineout experience and understanding with O'Connell, Flannery and Hayes (as lifter).

The strength in depth at the moment is good as the A team selection shows. If we could find ourselves a decent tight-head (Timmy Ryan perhaps?) we'd be in decent shape for the RWC in 2011.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Aerlik on November 12, 2009, 06:58:49 AM
Please oh please oh please oh please let's win this one, if only to shut the blinkered Aussie commentators up.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 12, 2009, 08:09:20 AM
Seems a sensible enough selection. It isn't a game that lends itself to experimentation.
New players need to be transitioned in without risking them getting any confidence set backs.
You have to give the benefit of the doubt to the last team that lined out also.

Ireland's best hope is to keep it hoofed at the Aussies all day and hope they make mistakes in their own territory.
It might also discourage them from committing lots of players close to the advantage line.
Maybe try and turn it into a penalty kicking competition, as I can't see Ireland breaking through Aussies lines easily.
From 9 to 15, Ireland have decent kickers, so we might as well use them.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Mario on November 12, 2009, 09:38:18 AM
The Austrailian Team was training in my gym yesterday, got one of them to spot for me  8)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: mackers on November 12, 2009, 10:43:05 AM
Seems a sensible enough selection. It isn't a game that lends itself to experimentation.
New players need to be transitioned in without risking them getting any confidence set backs.
You have to give the benefit of the doubt to the last team that lined out also.

Ireland's best hope is to keep it hoofed at the Aussies all day and hope they make mistakes in their own territory.
It might also discourage them from committing lots of players close to the advantage line.
Maybe try and turn it into a penalty kicking competition, as I can't see Ireland breaking through Aussies lines easily.
From 9 to 15, Ireland have decent kickers, so we might as well use them.

You're probably right in how the tactics will go but it makes for a snoreathon!!! I was hoping to get a bit of value for my 90 euros...........
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Gnevin on November 12, 2009, 12:00:00 PM


I don't think Sexton was ever going to be selected ahead of O'Gara for this match. People should remember how far Sexton has come in twelve months. As Dinny says, he couldn't kick snow off a rope this time last year and you wouldn't have put him in the in the women's team. He was hauled off against Castres at HT and Leinster had got in Holwell. Most people would have had Keatley ahead of him for Ireland. He will get twenty minutes on Sunday and the full game against Fiji to stake his claim.

Maybe so but the judges would of scored the last 2 rounds of Sexton V Rog in favour of Sexton by a country mile.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 12, 2009, 01:12:41 PM
Maybe so, but international level is still a big step up again from Heineken level, despite what Sky say. O'Gara has buckets of experience whereas Sexton's only Irish experience is with the A's. We should be looking to introduce Sexton gradually into the team rather than throwing him in at the deep end right away. Look at how England have hindered Cipriani's development by pitching him straight into the national side with little experience. Similar story with Andrew Trimble for ourselves.

Players have to be given time to feel their way in international rugby. Given the lack of options at 10 we have to make sure we don't rush Sexton. Look at how the likes of Tommy Bowe has benefitted from being gradually exposed to international rugby. He's unrecognisable from where he was three or four years ago.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 13, 2009, 04:59:18 PM
John Fogarty called into the senior squad as a precaution today. The brother will start for the A's tonight with Kyriacou brought onto the bench.

Got my tickets today. Pity there's no standing on the terrace because of that soccer lark tomorrow night  :(
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Capt Pat on November 14, 2009, 10:44:48 AM
The rugby really is getting pretty poor to watch these days. France v South Africa last night was like rugby league with lots of kicking and not may tries. I won't be watching England v Argentina today, it would probably send you to sleep. They will probably make  a couple of rule changes before the next world cup to try and open up the game a bit and help New Zealand to win it.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 14, 2009, 11:15:02 AM
thought france v Sa was a cracker personally. Never seen physicality like it before. The south african kicking game is being found out. they look tired anyway.

Ireland have a full team out - australia are experimental. If Ireland can't beat australia tomorrow they needn't bother travelling in 2011.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Olaf on November 14, 2009, 12:03:16 PM
The rugby really is getting pretty poor to watch these days. France v South Africa last night was like rugby league with lots of kicking and not may tries. I won't be watching England v Argentina today, it would probably send you to sleep. They will probably make  a couple of rule changes before the next world cup to try and open up the game a bit and help New Zealand to win it.

International rugby has got progressively harder to watch over the last few years.

IMO last year's Six Nations was woeful .

European rugby is far better to view but that may be partly due to the format of the competition
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on November 14, 2009, 01:31:01 PM
thought france v Sa was a cracker personally. Never seen physicality like it before. The south african kicking game is being found out. they look tired anyway.

Ireland have a full team out - australia are experimental. If Ireland can't beat australia tomorrow they needn't bother travelling in 2011.

Australian team isn't that experimental. It's close to their top side these days bar the injured Stirling Mortlock in the centre and maybe Berrick Barnes.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 14, 2009, 01:34:31 PM
thought france v Sa was a cracker personally. Never seen physicality like it before. The south african kicking game is being found out. they look tired anyway.

Ireland have a full team out - australia are experimental. If Ireland can't beat australia tomorrow they needn't bother travelling in 2011.

Australian team isn't that experimental. It's close to their top side these days bar the injured Stirling Mortlock in the centre and maybe Berrick Barnes.
Inexperienced scrum half, second rows, number 7 and centres. Doesn't get anymore inexperienced then that. Its put up or shut up time from rugby people. This is  either a good Irish team or its not. And if it is they should win tomorrow. If they don't then it doesn't bode well in my view. This is literally the strongest lineup ireland could have named.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on November 14, 2009, 01:46:26 PM
thought france v Sa was a cracker personally. Never seen physicality like it before. The south african kicking game is being found out. they look tired anyway.

Ireland have a full team out - australia are experimental. If Ireland can't beat australia tomorrow they needn't bother travelling in 2011.

Australian team isn't that experimental. It's close to their top side these days bar the injured Stirling Mortlock in the centre and maybe Berrick Barnes.
Inexperienced scrum half, second rows, number 7 and centres. Doesn't get anymore inexperienced then that. Its put up or shut up time from rugby people. This is  either a good Irish team or its not. And if it is they should win tomorrow. If they don't then it doesn't bode well in my view. This is literally the strongest lineup ireland could have named.

Relatively inexperienced maybe but still their first choice these days. Chisholm in the second row has 32 caps and Horwill has 21 so hardly greenhorns. Even Pocock has 13. It's not like they have a load of injuries. Deans is putting out what he believes is their best team at the moment bar the injured Mortlock.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 14, 2009, 01:52:54 PM
The rugby really is getting pretty poor to watch these days. France v South Africa last night was like rugby league with lots of kicking and not may tries. I won't be watching England v Argentina today, it would probably send you to sleep. They will probably make  a couple of rule changes before the next world cup to try and open up the game a bit and help New Zealand to win it.

I thoroughly enjoyed it personally. The physicality was incredible and there were some great individual performaces on the French side. That loose-head prop had an amazing game! I'd predict that the soccer tonight will be like watching paint dry in comparison.

Ireland are well capable of beating this Australian team. We have a clear advantage in terms of experience but the fact that it is our first match of the season and there will be some rustiness is a worry. I don't think Australia were that impressive at Twickenham and if they haven't improved from that performance I'd be disappointed if we didn't beat them. They're in our World Cup group and we should be looking to lay down a marker now.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 14, 2009, 01:58:27 PM
thought france v Sa was a cracker personally. Never seen physicality like it before. The south african kicking game is being found out. they look tired anyway.

Ireland have a full team out - australia are experimental. If Ireland can't beat australia tomorrow they needn't bother travelling in 2011.

Australian team isn't that experimental. It's close to their top side these days bar the injured Stirling Mortlock in the centre and maybe Berrick Barnes.
Inexperienced scrum half, second rows, number 7 and centres. Doesn't get anymore inexperienced then that. Its put up or shut up time from rugby people. This is  either a good Irish team or its not. And if it is they should win tomorrow. If they don't then it doesn't bode well in my view. This is literally the strongest lineup ireland could have named.

Relatively inexperienced maybe but still their first choice these days. Chisholm in the second row has 32 caps and Horwill has 21 so hardly greenhorns. Even Pocock has 13. It's not like they have a load of injuries. Deans is putting out what he believes is their best team at the moment bar the injured Mortlock.

13 caps at openside is still in nappies really at international level. The centres are totally and utterly inexperiecnded as well at this level. Realistically ireland should be winning this by 7-10 points. England were appalling last week- that has to be factored in to Oz's performance last week.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Capt Pat on November 14, 2009, 02:53:21 PM
We don't have our first choice centre or loose head prop. The Aussies are close to full strength and their scrun half was their best player against England.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Aerlik on November 14, 2009, 03:14:56 PM
What about that tackle by the Samoan (full?) back on the Welsh man?  And what's with the yellow shirts?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 14, 2009, 03:26:05 PM
We don't have our first choice centre or loose head prop. The Aussies are close to full strength and their scrun half was their best player against England.

Who is our first choice inside centre though CP? D'Arcy's form has been quite patchy and Wallace is playing good stuff with Ulster. The twelve slot is definitely up for grabs for the 6N. It would be a shame to break up that back three to move one of them inside. If Cave or McFadden play well against Fiji and maintain good form into the New Year then even they could come into the reckoning. It would be great to see Earls get some gametime for Munster in the centre but with Mafi and De Villiers around, that looks unlikely. We'll always have the option of moving O'Driscoll inside if needs be.

I reckon Healy would be starting even if Marcus was fit.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 14, 2009, 03:41:48 PM
We don't have our first choice centre or loose head prop. The Aussies are close to full strength and their scrun half was their best player against England.
scrum half who is 20 years of age. Ireland are Grand slam champions. I'm amazed how irish rugby fans don't demand the same standards they expect from their Gaa teams. Stop making excuses for them. If Ireland lose tomorrow it is a serious setback for them.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 14, 2009, 03:48:11 PM
Looking at England's performance so far against a fairly experimental Argentina, we shouldn't be fearing this Australia team at all. Argentina have four amateurs playing for them and England haven't opened them up at all. They just shovel the ball wide from wing to wing and there's no variety at all in their midfield.

Ireland will ask much bigger questions of the Australia defence than England did. Their 3/4 line look good with ball in hand but how will they react if Ireland can get in behind them?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Capt Pat on November 14, 2009, 05:38:07 PM
Give it a rest and change the record. It is a decent Aussie team that beat England at Twickenham last week and had a bit to spare. They are below full strength and so are we, but it is not a competitvie match so whoever wants it more will win. We are slight favourites but it is the first game of the season.

English fans were celebrating after the world cup draw when they had Scotland and Argentina in their group. I had a feeling at the time that they would not be too happy when reality hits home in the world cup in New Zealand. The southern hemisphere team Argentina will win that group and England and Scotland will battle it out for second place. They are going backwards with Wilkinson at this stage. They will not do what they did in France and get to the world cup final playing that way.

It was in fact possibly one of the worst draws they could have got.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 14, 2009, 06:07:19 PM
England will easily win that group. I'll put my money down now if you like. The likelihood is Johnson won't be there in 2 years.
England have plenty of injuries at present so I wouldn't be judging them at the moment. The biggest problem they have is Johnson and that is  a fact. He is not good enough to manage at that level and I don't think he will be there in 2 years.

Wilkinson was terrific last week on a shit team and is playing outstanding rugby in the top 14 at present. Wasn't good today but they were all poor. We'll know more about england in the 6 nations they are currently missing 8/9 first choice players. If Johnson still selects todays side in that scenario then I'll agree with you.

We are not below full strength why do you keep saying that? Healy would be starting anyway with his form this season. That is a full strength Irish team playing against an inexperienced Australian team missing their first choice centre partnership in Mortlock and barnes.
Stop making excuses for Ireland this is a must-win game. anything else is a setback. Thats the bottom line. Its amazing how Irish rugby fans despite having the best Irish team of alltime continually want to settle to being mediocre. Uniquely Irish I would have said.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Capt Pat on November 15, 2009, 04:31:49 AM
I don't want your money. Banahan had a good game today for England. They were not missing 8 or 9 starters. They have very good strength in depth anyway unlike us. Paddy Wallace is not our first choice inside centre. He is Darcys stand in. If it was a world cup match and Horan was fit he would be playing. The Conteponi brothers were both missing for Argentina.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Gnevin on November 15, 2009, 12:29:44 PM
Uniquely Irish I would have said.
Yes it's Uniquely Irish to consider the Aussie won't be a push over and could win it.  ::)  I for one think we will win but can see how we could lose it will be a tight game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 15, 2009, 01:08:37 PM
Uniquely Irish I would have said.
Yes it's Uniquely Irish to consider the Aussie won't be a push over and could win it.  ::)  I for one think we will win but can see how we could lose it will be a tight game.

Its uniquely Irish to want to be underdogs going into a game where they are clear favourites.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 15, 2009, 02:11:45 PM
Uniquely Irish I would have said.
Yes it's Uniquely Irish to consider the Aussie won't be a push over and could win it.  ::)  I for one think we will win but can see how we could lose it will be a tight game.

Its uniquely Irish to want to be underdogs going into a game where they are clear favourites.
Hardly clear favourites now.
Ireland haven't played a serious game in 8 months and the front row is a made up of an inexperienced, injured and just back from being suspension player
Australia, although more experimental have a few really class players.
I'd say Declan Kidney would crawl over broken glass to get a back row and half back pairing as good as what the Aussies have.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 15, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
Quote
I'd say Declan Kidney would crawl over broken glass to get a back row and half back pairing as good as what the Aussies have.

Would differ there, think the Irish back-row is a far better unit and the Aussie half-backs weren't exactly setting the world alight in the tri-nations. 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 15, 2009, 02:45:53 PM
Quote
I'd say Declan Kidney would crawl over broken glass to get a back row and half back pairing as good as what the Aussies have.

Would differ there, think the Irish back-row is a far better unit and the Aussie half-backs weren't exactly setting the world alight in the tri-nations.

some sanity here at least.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 15, 2009, 02:59:52 PM
Quote
I'd say Declan Kidney would crawl over broken glass to get a back row and half back pairing as good as what the Aussies have.

Would differ there, think the Irish back-row is a far better unit and the Aussie half-backs weren't exactly setting the world alight in the tri-nations.
Pocock has 12 years on Wallace and is one for the future.
While Heaslip and Ferris had good seasons last year, I'd still take Rocky over Ferris and would still be suspect on how consistent Heaslip is.
Ferris's card should be marked at this stage and watch out for second season syndrome.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Midman on November 15, 2009, 03:20:48 PM


any links for this one ?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 15, 2009, 03:52:29 PM
Quote
Pocock has 12 years on Wallace and is one for the future.
While Heaslip and Ferris had good seasons last year, I'd still take Rocky over Ferris and would still be suspect on how consistent Heaslip is.
Ferris's card should be marked at this stage and watch out for second season syndrome.

Ferris is around alot longer than 1 season made his debut in 2006, back-row play is about working as a unit and experience is actually a big factor in that, Rocky is class no doubt but Heaslip is a lot more consistent and dynamic than Palu and Pocock is no George Smith.

Anyhow back to the game, Kaplan is ruining it, too whistle happy and too inconsistent. Ireland should play better in the 2nd half, if they can control territory they'll win this game, ROG imho is actually varying the game quite well. Would bring Reddan on with 20 to go to increase the tempo.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 15, 2009, 04:47:23 PM
yes !!

for a while at the start of the second half it wasnt looking good, but that wasnt a bad result
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 15, 2009, 04:58:54 PM
Quote
Pocock has 12 years on Wallace and is one for the future.
While Heaslip and Ferris had good seasons last year, I'd still take Rocky over Ferris and would still be suspect on how consistent Heaslip is.
Ferris's card should be marked at this stage and watch out for second season syndrome.

Ferris is around alot longer than 1 season made his debut in 2006, back-row play is about working as a unit and experience is actually a big factor in that, Rocky is class no doubt but Heaslip is a lot more consistent and dynamic than Palu and Pocock is no George Smith.
Pocock didn't look too bad in the end  ;D and the Australian back row were comfortable winners at the breakdown.

I just didn't see how Ireland could have been classified as "clear favourites" against a talented Australian side.
Great guts to to snatch a draw in the end though!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 15, 2009, 05:35:17 PM
Quote
Pocock didn't look too bad in the end  ;D and the Australian back row were comfortable winners at the breakdown.

Just as well there's more to back-row play than the breakdown, Pocock had a great 1st half but his link play was poor and he brought no physicality sorry he's no George Smith in my opinion and Palu is just a big lump and about as dynamic as an Irish Trade Union.

Ireland anytime they got into the 22 looked like scoring but with a poor scrum and poor play from O'Leary they struggled to get that territory.

Tight Five

Weren't commiting themselves to the breakdown, scrum was poor but line-out worked really well. POC actually had a great game and Cian Healy can be impressed with his debut

5/10


Back-row

Aussies cleaned up at the breakdown particularly in the 1st half, Ferris and Wallace carried very well, Heaslip good in the line-out put with a struggling scrum was never going to impress

Half-Backs

TOL very poor and indecisive and his passing not up to scratch. ROG did well considering and justified his selection.

5/10

Midfield

Wallace tries hard but doesn't play the 2nd 5/8 role well enough and lacks physicality, 12 is now a problem position. BOD quiet game but always pops up, class act.

Back 3

Fitz looked sharp but starved off ball, Bowe is another class act but poor game for Kearney, poor kick in the build up to the 2nd Aussie try and should have tackled the ball to help prevent it.

6/10

6.5/10

Australia should have won but Ireland seem to be evolving their game so happy with the comeback and it was first game, big plus though is the way we came back, next two selection will be interesting
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 15, 2009, 06:01:14 PM
Quote
Pocock didn't look too bad in the end  ;D and the Australian back row were comfortable winners at the breakdown.

Just as well there's more to back-row play than the breakdown.
Aye, we're in bonus territory with Elsom's try and first half 40 metre break.
Re: Pocock, the issue was whether you'd take him over David Wallace rather than George Smith.

I'd take the Aussie back row, any day and every day.
You're more than welcome to the Irish one!  ;)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 15, 2009, 06:04:00 PM
Feck off, I can't back down now  ;)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 15, 2009, 06:07:28 PM
Feck off, I can't back down now  ;)
In fairness, if you'd mentioned the phrase "unseen work" I would have had to defer to your better judgement.   :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 15, 2009, 06:57:42 PM
Hard to know what to make of that match. We were outplayed for long periods and yet if it wasn't for a very soft try within the first few minutes from an unforced error we could have won. We need to work on the scrum before the SA match. Healy had a superb game in the loose but we were pushed off our own ball far too often at the set piece. The Bull was undoubtedly a bit rusty after his suspension but the lack of options in the front row is a concern.

I thought ROG had a very good game. Kicked well bar one that went out on the full. O'Leary inside him didn't have a good game. Too ponderous at the base and made some very strange decisions. He needs to build his confidence back up after his injury because at the moment he doesn't look the player he was last year. I'd have liked to see Reddan introduced earlier. Bit disappointing that we didn't see more of the bench but I suppose Deccie didn't want to risk breaking the bit of momentum we had in the last ten minutes.

The team showed great heart to draw level but we'll have to improve. Hopefully we will with another match and the few more weeks in training to build the understanding.

I didn't have a ref-radio at the match and I thought some of Kaplan's calls were curious to say the least. There seemed to be no consistency in his decisions and both teams were constantly getting pinged at the breakdown. The IRB need to tweak the laws again because some of the stuff ain't that good to watch at the moment. No way did Palu deserve to get binned either. Thought it was a fair hit myself.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: screenexile on November 15, 2009, 07:13:29 PM
Really don't understand the hype about O'Leary. . . is it just his defensive capabilities is that why he's in there? His passing and decision making are slow and his box kicks are terrible.

I always liked Reddan as a player and don't understand why he hasn't been given more of a chance. Hopefully playing for Leinster will help propel him into the number 9 jersey for Ireland as I think he's more dynamic and creative than O'Leary and this is what we need in the bigger games! Maybe when the damage is done we can bring O'Leary in to close a game out but I would like to see Reddan get the majority of the game time.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Main Street on November 15, 2009, 07:15:34 PM
I was sort of half watching it until the last 25 mins caught my attention.
The Irish lads looked good  then and made it look simple enough to get over the line twice in the last 5 mins. I would have thought the Aussies would have defended their line with their lives.

Why is there so much hoofing garryowens in the game these days?  to a casual observer like me it looks awful.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: mc_grens on November 15, 2009, 07:25:12 PM
first impressions.

We're in deep shit in the front row.
George Smith lay all over the Irish side of the ball from when he came until the end.
Any kick in loose play is only as good as the chase- we just didn't chase.
ROG got away with being as bad as he has been all season.
Paddy Wallace is not dynamic enough.

Backs can still dig us out.
On the rare occasions we get quick ball we're class.
Lineout is solid.
Nice to see Fla and Ferris back.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: INDIANA on November 15, 2009, 07:32:27 PM
Pocock was really the only reason to watch the match in my view. Forgettable stuff but its not often you see a star being born but Pocock is the new Richie Mc Caw by the looks of it.
Ireland did the usual - happy to be underdogs but don't give us the favourites tag. Great last 20 though - at least they have bottle. But the reality is on your home patch against an inexperienced outfit you should be winning. Backrow is a major problem now. Front row will improve though.
Thought Paddy wallace did very well though. Fair play to him because I wasn't  a fan. Hard to know about 2 weeks. Either SA will raise themselves to beat us or else they are a busted flush due to tiredness. Hard to know.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: johnneycool on November 16, 2009, 12:13:17 PM
In a few phases prior to the Elsom try, why did O'Gara make a mad dash out of the defensive line, allowing the Aussie ball carrier an easy break on the Irish line? He must have been trying to intercept a pass which never came IMO and it looked awful.

Bowe has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years, maybe trimble needs a move away from Ulster as well!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: Canalman on November 16, 2009, 12:21:40 PM
The fawning towards O'Driscoll at the beginning of the game was OTT imo. "A National Treasure" he was called.......... come on ......The Ardagh Chalice, Book of Kells etc yes...... not a sportsman.
Great finish to the game........ hope Fitzgerald's injury is not too bad. Never good to see lads clutching their knee in agony.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2009, 12:31:18 PM
Just as well there's more to back-row play than the breakdown, Pocock had a great 1st half but his link play was poor and he brought no physicality sorry he's no George Smith in my opinion and Palu is just a big lump and about as dynamic as an Irish Trade Union.
Ireland anytime they got into the 22 looked like scoring but with a poor scrum and poor play from O'Leary they struggled to get that territory.
Tight Five
Weren't commiting themselves to the breakdown, scrum was poor but line-out worked really well. POC actually had a great game and Cian Healy can be impressed with his debut
5/10
Back-row
Aussies cleaned up at the breakdown particularly in the 1st half, Ferris and Wallace carried very well, Heaslip good in the line-out put with a struggling scrum was never going to impress
Half-Backs
TOL very poor and indecisive and his passing not up to scratch. ROG did well considering and justified his selection.
5/10
Midfield
Wallace tries hard but doesn't play the 2nd 5/8 role well enough and lacks physicality, 12 is now a problem position. BOD quiet game but always pops up, class act.
Back 3
Fitz looked sharp but starved off ball, Bowe is another class act but poor game for Kearney, poor kick in the build up to the 2nd Aussie try and should have tackled the ball to help prevent it.
6/10
6.5/10
Australia should have won but Ireland seem to be evolving their game so happy with the comeback and it was first game, big plus though is the way we came back, next two selection will be interesting
would agree with all of that apart from you bieng a bit hard on Kearney imo.
Thought that oleary was woeful and would much prefer to see Redden on. OGara did well and centre partner for odriscoll is a big problem. I dont rate darcy and wallace as being good enough.
It might be a bit left field here but didnt Trimble not start out as a centre?
I always thought he was discarded a little too quickly!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: mc_grens on November 16, 2009, 12:39:26 PM
Trimbles hands are not good enough to play centre in my opinion.

D'Arcy is the best option when fit and in form.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: thewobbler on November 16, 2009, 12:39:35 PM
Trimble's off-loading isn't good enough for an international 12.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2009, 12:44:25 PM
oh well, thats Ireland fecked for an inside centre then as darcy survives on a massively overhyped reputation (lets face it for all his bravery , he's just too small as well as being too greedy - a prob that he has had during and since his schools cup days !)

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 16, 2009, 12:46:42 PM
Is Kevin Maggs still playing rugby with Bristol?!  :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Denn Forever on November 16, 2009, 12:49:46 PM

Why is there so much hoofing garryowens in the game these days?  to a casual observer like me it looks awful.

It is due to some rule changes so that it may not be advantagous to kick tto touch like before.

 Hopefully some on on the board who is more au fait with rugby and how it should be played can explain.  Pretty please?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Australia, 15 November
Post by: Gnevin on November 16, 2009, 12:52:49 PM

Why is there so much hoofing garryowens in the game these days?  to a casual observer like me it looks awful.

It is due to some rule changes so that it may not be advantagous to kick tto touch like before.

 Hopefully some on on the board who is more au fait with rugby and how it should be played can explain.  Pretty please?

Doe's rule where removed at the end of last season. Player just appear to have gotten use to kicking all the time even when opposition players can kick it out of the full if the ball is kick directly into the 22.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 16, 2009, 12:59:37 PM
There are many theories on why its so common I suppose. The Argentina team used it to great effect in the RWC in '07 and other teams seem to be following their lead to a certain extent. I'd guess that part of the thinking behind it is that you are better off without the ball outside your own half rather than having it inside your own 22, such is the mess at ruck-time where you are very likely to get pinged while still in possession. Also teams with a weak line-out would prefer to keep the ball in-field rather than going for touch.

In a way it suits Ireland at the moment. Traditionally Irish full-backs (Dick Spring excepted - butterfingers!) have always been good under the high ball. Our back three at the moment, Kearney in particular, are all very solid under garryowens. Its not pretty to watch though.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 16, 2009, 01:01:10 PM
Quote
Why is there so much hoofing garryowens in the game these days?  to a casual observer like me it looks awful.

Due to the law ammendment at ruck time teams are afraid of playing rugby in their own half in case they get turned over or give a penalty away hence they boot it down the pitch.


I suppose in Kearney's defence he did ship a big hit from Palu and looked quite dazed maybe semi-concussed.

Yep 12 is definitely a problem position but Sexton at 12 would allow you play wallace as he's very physical for a 10. Worth seeing how it goes against Fiji.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on November 16, 2009, 01:26:42 PM
Quote
IRB player of the year: Having scaled new heights over the past 12 months, it comes as no surprise to learn that Brian O’Driscoll has been shortlisted for the IRB player of the year. And the Grand Slam winning captain is joined on the select seven man panel by his Leinster and Ireland teammate Jamie Heaslip.


Although O’Driscoll has been shortlisted in the past, he has yet to claim the IRB accolade. In 2001 he lost out to Keith Wood and was overlooked again a year later when Fabien Galthie picked up the gong.

This year he will face competition from Heaslip, 2006 winner Richie McCaw, the South African duo of Francois Steyn and Fourie du Preez, Australia’s Matt Giteau and Tom Croft of England.

The nominees were selected by an independent panel of judges that included Paul Wallace and Gavin Hastings. They watched over 60 hours of action from 46 matches, awarding points to the three players they thought stood out in each match.

The winner, together with the IRB Coach of the Year and IRB Team of the Year, will be announced on Sunday, Novmeber 29th.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 16, 2009, 03:09:46 PM
Quote
Why is there so much hoofing garryowens in the game these days?  to a casual observer like me it looks awful.

Due to the law ammendment at ruck time teams are afraid of playing rugby in their own half in case they get turned over or give a penalty away hence they boot it down the pitch.


I suppose in Kearney's defence he did ship a big hit from Palu and looked quite dazed maybe semi-concussed.

Yep 12 is definitely a problem position but Sexton at 12 would allow you play wallace as he's very physical for a 10. Worth seeing how it goes against Fiji.
its not a bad tactic if you can find touch in the opponents half if you have a v good lineout like Ireland have and can win a large proportion of opponents throw ins.


Was also wondering about sexton at first centre still havent seen wallace playing enough times and enough times playing well to merit a call for fly half.
Like Darcy prob great at iinterprovincial/club but not quite good enough for international.

aussies surprised me yesterday, didnt think they were up to much but they have a decent young team if not much cover in the squad.
France are the team to beat for the six nations though based on their perf v sa.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 16, 2009, 05:21:28 PM
oops meant Sexton at 10 and Wallace at 12, no rog  :-[
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 16, 2009, 06:31:56 PM
D'Arcy is the best option when fit and in form.
I think the days of D'Arcy being able to get around players, squeeze through impossible gaps, even from a standing start are behind him.
He is a better 13 than 12, the Kevin Maggs style crash stuff doesn't suit him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: Main Street on November 16, 2009, 08:16:48 PM
Tough news about Luke Fitzgerald, he ruptured his knee ligaments and estimated out for 4 to 6 months.

Made me shudder at the time just watching him awkwardly twist his knee when he fell/stumbled.


Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: Declan on November 17, 2009, 02:40:27 PM

Sexton in at out-half to face Fiji
Tuesday, 17 November 2009 14:28

There are eight changes to the Ireland team that drew 20-20 with Australia to the side that will take on Fiji on Saturday at the RDS in the second game of the 2009 Guinness Series.

The game sees five changes to the backline and three in the pack.

Keith Earls, who replaced the injured Luke Fitzgerald against Australia, retains his place on the left wing with Shane Horgan coming in on the right wing for Tommy Bowe.

Gordon D'Arcy comes into the centre and there is a new halfback partnership with Jonathan Sexton earning his first cap at No 10 with Eoin Reddan starting at scrumhalf.

Tom Court starts the game at loosehead prop and Leo Cullen comes into the side to partner Paul O'Connell in the second row. There is one change to the back row with Denis Leamy replacing David Wallace.

The replacements include Andrew Trimble and the uncapped Sean O'Brien, both of whom were involved in the recent A game against Tonga in Ravenhill.

Tomas O'Leary, Paddy Wallace and Donncha O'Callaghan are also named among the replacements after starting against Australia with Tony Buckley and the uncapped Sean Cronin completing the bench.

Ireland XV and Replacements for Autumn International against Fiji at the RDS on Saturday, 21 November, kick-off 5.15pm.

15 Rob Kearney, 14 Shane Horgan, 13 Brian O'Driscoll (capt),
12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Keith Earls, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Eoin Reddan

1 Tom Court, 2 Jerry Flannery, 3 John Hayes, 4 Leo Cullen,
5 Paul O'Connell, 6 Stephen Ferris, 7 Denis Leamy, 8 Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements:
16 Sean Cronin
17 Tony Buckley
18 Donncha O'Callaghan
19 Sean O'Brien
20 Tomas O'Leary
21 Paddy Wallace
22 Andrew Trimble
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 20-20 Australia
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 17, 2009, 02:45:56 PM
a strange looking team, but they want to try diff things I suppose

btw - kevin maggs now player coach at rotherham this season i think
and
the hacks are calling for martin johnsons head now and some people are whispering the names of ian mcgheechan and sir clive woodward - some even suggest both could work together as coach and manager respectively!
So England could be back on track by the end of 2010 as johnson will prob not be sacked before the 6N
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Declan on November 18, 2009, 07:47:29 AM
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Rugby-Crossbar-Challenge-At-Saracens-Match-At-Wembley-Won-By-Amateur-Club-Hooker-Stuart-Tinner/Article/200911315456324?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15456324_Rugby_Crossbar_Challenge_At_Saracens_Match_At_Wembley_Won_By_Amateur_Club_Hooker_Stuart_Tinner (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Rugby-Crossbar-Challenge-At-Saracens-Match-At-Wembley-Won-By-Amateur-Club-Hooker-Stuart-Tinner/Article/200911315456324?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15456324_Rugby_Crossbar_Challenge_At_Saracens_Match_At_Wembley_Won_By_Amateur_Club_Hooker_Stuart_Tinner)

I love his comment re the best day of his life!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 18, 2009, 09:00:03 AM
Brillant, saw that last night  :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 21, 2009, 05:16:41 PM
This should be a bore fest, referee to favour Ireland and Ireland to win by 23pts plus
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 21, 2009, 05:38:33 PM
10 - 0 after 20 mins, Earls is a smashing player
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2009, 05:41:19 PM
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Rugby-Crossbar-Challenge-At-Saracens-Match-At-Wembley-Won-By-Amateur-Club-Hooker-Stuart-Tinner/Article/200911315456324?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15456324_Rugby_Crossbar_Challenge_At_Saracens_Match_At_Wembley_Won_By_Amateur_Club_Hooker_Stuart_Tinner (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Rugby-Crossbar-Challenge-At-Saracens-Match-At-Wembley-Won-By-Amateur-Club-Hooker-Stuart-Tinner/Article/200911315456324?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15456324_Rugby_Crossbar_Challenge_At_Saracens_Match_At_Wembley_Won_By_Amateur_Club_Hooker_Stuart_Tinner)

I love his comment re the best day of his life!

Yes, thankfully the second best day of his life wasn't broadcast on tv.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2009, 05:59:22 PM
Sexton playing like Carter.

Don't tell him he's Irish.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: orangeman on November 21, 2009, 06:01:03 PM
Sexton isn't afraid to run at them.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Celt_Man on November 21, 2009, 06:11:47 PM
Sexton s having a great opening 40 minutes... showing great confidence to run the ball as much as he is despite the conditions... scrum could be doing better
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: ludermor on November 21, 2009, 06:20:05 PM
Looked like a terrible ijury to Leamy
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Celt_Man on November 21, 2009, 06:25:00 PM
Yea hopefully it doesn't turn out as nasty as it looks but wouldn't hold my breath
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: trileacman on November 21, 2009, 09:17:51 PM
so O'gara or sexton for SA?

For me, O'Gara. he's the safer bet.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2009, 09:26:44 PM
so O'gara or sexton for SA?

For me, O'Gara. he's the safer bet.

They will start O'Gara but I would go for Sexton. Earls also did enough.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: mc_grens on November 21, 2009, 09:27:04 PM
Fire in Sexton to see what he can do. We know what ROG is all about.

Sexton had a good start. Strike while the iron is hot, put him in against South Africa while his confidence is high.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: screenexile on November 21, 2009, 09:30:58 PM
so O'gara or sexton for SA?

For me, O'Gara. he's the safer bet.


Feck the safe bet give him a rattle we can't keep relying on ROG who quite frankly will not be the man to control this team through a World Cup! Sexton is the future and a start against South Africa will give us an idea if he can make the step up.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: trileacman on November 22, 2009, 03:09:35 AM
so O'gara or sexton for SA?

For me, O'Gara. he's the safer bet.


Feck the safe bet give him a rattle we can't keep relying on ROG who quite frankly will not be the man to control this team through a World Cup! Sexton is the future and a start against South Africa will give us an idea if he can make the step up.

Well we bitxhed for 6 years about having no cover at ten and for the first year that we do we decide to despense of Rog. I dont completely disagree with what your saying but showing Rog the door now ends his international career and leaves us with no cover at ten again, bar humphries.

Also playing him against SA is based upon the hope sexton's able to make the step up, if he doesnt and we give his confidence a huge knock, who do we turn to then for the 6 nations, with two banjaxed out halfs? Just take it canny with the lad, autumn internationals are nice to win, but are glorified freindlies none the less.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2009, 11:27:35 AM
DK's selection policies mirror Eddies. Conservatism. ROG will start- put the mortgage on it.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: ludermor on November 22, 2009, 12:24:58 PM
http://www.fijirugby.com/pages.cfm/fru-news?newsid=europe-diary-day-14--sean-hurler

Not sure if this was posted earlier

Europe Diary Day 14 - Sean the hurler
 

 
20 November, 2009
 The Irish weather is doing its utmost best to upset preparations for the Flying Fijians as the team struggled to find a training ground yesterday morning - the one intended for use was closed because of the wet and windy conditions.

However the boys’ spirits remain high and during their lunchtime break the team was introduced to the Gaelic sport of hurling by Irish Fijian hurling star Seán Óg Ó hAilpín. It was an event organized by Fiji Rugby Union sponsor Digicel and despite being tired and worn out from their mornings exertions the players threw themselves into the hurling session with great aplomb.

Sean's heritage - mother Rotuman and father Irish - seems to have combined to produce a person who speaks like a Jamaican Rastafarian - his accent causing great mirth among the players.

In the afternoon it was back to the hard grind for the players, however there was a bit of release in the evening with the boys being treated to dinner out of the hotel. I think everyone appreciated getting out of the hotel confines for one night - even if it was only for a couple of hours.

However to be fair to the hotel – Radisson St. Helens< Dublin, I’d have to say that it's an absolutely brilliant hotel and as in Scotland everyone has looked after us extremely well.

At the hurling training session at lunch time Graham Dewes was introduced to Sean as also being a Rotuman. Sean looks at Graham and asks in perfect Rotuman - what island are you from? The rest of the team crack up laughing and poor Graham (being very much a kiwi Rotuman who's never learnt the language) is left scratching his head.

Sometimes we go right around the world only to be undone by one of our very own!

Take care all. Moce mada.


Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: trileacman on November 22, 2009, 02:43:58 PM
so O'gara or sexton for SA?

For me, O'Gara. he's the safer bet.

They will start O'Gara but I would go for Sexton. Earls also did enough.

I assumed earls position was guaranteed given fitzgeralds injury? ??? who were the other options?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: tyroneboi on November 22, 2009, 03:25:22 PM
I too would go for Sexton because they will learn more about him in that game than any other. We all know what ROG brings to the team but its not as if this is a must win game against South Africa. We might as well see if Sexton is good enough now than wait until O'Gara has an injury and he has to be thrown in at the deep end come the 6 nations. If it was a World Cup game against South Africa then the tried and tested O'Gara would start no question or doubt about it but now is the time to have a little bit of experimentation.

My team would be Healy, Flannery, Hayes, DOC, POC, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, O'Leary, Sexton, Earls, Darcy, BOD, Bowe & Kearney. Though if Reddan and Cullen started I wouldnt be too displeased either.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 22, 2009, 03:33:46 PM
i agree with everything tyroneboi said there. makes perfect sense. you know what ROG brings, but against the world champions, it's a perfect game to see if Sexton can cut it. If he can, then if O'Gara starts the 1st 6 Nations match, he will be under bigger pressure than normal, and i then think we will see a better O'Gara. If he is under no pressure, he is too relaxed.

must shower now, after agreeing with a tyrone boy  :D :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: screenexile on November 22, 2009, 03:41:25 PM
i agree with everything tyroneboi said there. makes perfect sense. you know what ROG brings, but against the world champions, it's a perfect game to see if Sexton can cut it. If he can, then if O'Gara starts the 1st 6 Nations match, he will be under bigger pressure than normal, and i then think we will see a better O'Gara. If he is under no pressure, he is too relaxed.

must shower now, after agreeing with a tyrone boy  :D :D

Yeah don't get me wrong I'm not saying we should ditch O'Gara but I think 2 years ahead of the World Cup is the time to be testing who will be his replacement. O'Gara will be at the World Cup no doubt but I don't think he is the one to lead us through that particular campaign... in fairness I have reservations about him doing it for the upcoming 6 nations. Yes he has a cool head and will be a good man to close a game out but I think Sexton is who we have to look to for creativity and invention to get us in those positions in the first place. Definitely has to get decent game time against SA either he should start or get a good half hour in I think.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: ludermor on November 22, 2009, 05:46:55 PM
How many times has a young lad been thrown in at the deep end, had a disaster then had his confidence shattered? He may come through but whats the point in rushing him.  This time last year he was light years away from where he is now but he is riding the crest of wave now and hasnt had any real setback since he started to shine. Id give him some game time against SA but wouldnt start him, there are still a few games in the HC and if he is still flying then give his chance in the 6 nations
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2009, 06:02:51 PM
How many times has a young lad been thrown in at the deep end, had a disaster then had his confidence shattered? He may come through but whats the point in rushing him.  This time last year he was light years away from where he is now but he is riding the crest of wave now and hasnt had any real setback since he started to shine. Id give him some game time against SA but wouldnt start him, there are still a few games in the HC and if he is still flying then give his chance in the 6 nations
why not start him in a test game as oppose to a 6 nations game?.Nothing at stake next week.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: ludermor on November 22, 2009, 06:07:05 PM
Nothing at stake but that doesnt stop people having bad games
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: muppet on November 22, 2009, 06:21:25 PM
so O'gara or sexton for SA?

For me, O'Gara. he's the safer bet.

They will start O'Gara but I would go for Sexton. Earls also did enough.

I assumed earls position was guaranteed given fitzgeralds injury? ??? who were the other options?

The guy who was on the other wing yesterday?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2009, 06:22:47 PM
Nothing at stake but that doesnt stop people having bad games

On that basis you'd never start anyone under 25. If you're good enough youre old enough and he's good enough. Needn't fear kidney has already said ROG is satrting.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: ludermor on November 22, 2009, 07:14:23 PM
i dont mean it that drastic but you have to admit Sexton has come on a very long way in a year, id love him to keep progressing but do we need to put him in front of the wolrd champions?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Tankie on November 22, 2009, 09:15:09 PM
Sexton was great lastnight and watching him was worth the admittance fee....he better get some game time next week but i fear he will not get off the bench
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: tyroneboi on November 22, 2009, 10:13:15 PM
He has already been thrown in at the deep end at the end of last season. From a club perspective it doesn't get any bigger than being put on against your big rivals in a European Cup semi final and then to kick the winning points in the final. I hope Kidney does start him or at least gives him 30 mins. Plus South Africa are at the end of a very tough season and in theory shouldn't be as formidable as they were a couple of months ago.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Tankie on November 24, 2009, 01:30:13 PM
Sexton at 10 - legend call
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 24, 2009, 01:33:56 PM

Fair f**ks to Kidney, wouldnt have happened under Eddie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jonathan Sexton has usurped Ronan O'Gara for the Ireland number 10 jersey ahead of Saturday's eagerly-awaited clash with South Africa at Croke Park.

Coach Declan Kidney has gone for the young Leinster fly-half after his five-star showing last week against Fiji.

There are six changes from that game with Cian Healy, David Wallace, Donncha O'Callaghan, Tommy Bowe, Paddy Wallace, and Tomas O'Leary all returning.

Denis Leamy has overcome injury to be named amongst the replacements.

Also on the bench is Munster's Tony Buckley who gets in ahead of Ulster's Tom Court.

Peter Stringer gets the replacement scrum-half role instead of Eoin Reddan, and sits beside his long-time partner O'Gara.

Not since the retirement of Ulster's David Humphreys five years ago has O'Gara found himself under any pressure, and dropped.

While Sexton's inclusion will be called a shock, it was not totally unexpected that he got the call.


 
Cian Healy returns to the Ireland loose-head berth to face South Africa 
Since Humphreys's retirement, Ireland have had trouble finding cover for O'Gara, although Ulster's Paddy Wallace has proved a very able deputy when the need arose.

Sexton, though, showed no nerves during his international debut last week and produced a mature performance, including a 100 per cent kicking record.

Under the tutelage last season of Argentina great Felipe Contepomi, Sexton has become an astute on-field tactician with the added confidence to try something different and exciting.

Facing the Springboks will be the biggest test to date for the 24-year-old and one that will show whether he really is the real deal.

Kidney, meanwhile, has not tampered too much elsewhere.

He goes with Wallace as skipper Brian O'Driscoll's midfield partner after the Ulsterman had a fine game against the Wallabies two weeks ago.

As expected Cian Healy returns to the front row at Court's expense with Leo Cullen also giving way for the return of O'Callaghan.

Leamy is included in the replacements following what originally looked a serious ankle injury against Fiji. If he is forced out before the weekend, Leinster's Sean O'Brien will step in.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ireland: R Kearney; T Bowe, B O'Driscoll, P Wallace, K Earls; J Sexton, T O'Leary; C Healy, J Flannery, J Hayes, D O'Callaghan, P O'Connell; S Ferris, D Wallace, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, T Buckley, L Cullen, D Leamy, P Stringer, R O'Gara, G D'Arcy.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: AFS on November 24, 2009, 01:36:55 PM
Much/ any chance of picking up a ticket for this outside Croker on the day? Think I'll be about Dublin on Saturday and wouldn't mind heading.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Rossie11 on November 24, 2009, 02:23:39 PM
Huge shock he went for Sexton. Delighted though.
Best of luck to him
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on November 24, 2009, 02:27:04 PM
Right decision to start Sexton. He has to be given a go at some stage against top class opposition and this is Ireland's last game before next year's 6 Nations. No harm in letting ROG know that his position isn't guaranteed anymore either.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 24, 2009, 02:33:10 PM
What's Buckley doing on the bench?

Big test for Sexton, hope it goes well at least ROG can change the game of he comes on, great option to have.

Really fancy Ireland to win.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: DuffleKing on November 24, 2009, 02:37:59 PM

Very very surprised but delighted he's gone with sexton. could be the making of him,

On an unrelated subject. How badly are we going to get it in the ass in the scrum?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 24, 2009, 02:54:35 PM
Surprised but very happy that Sexton got the nod.
Fingers crossed he has a good day, as we need someone to step up to the mark for the next World Cup.
Despite the mutterings of being conservative, Kidney isn't afraid of making the changes.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 24, 2009, 02:57:49 PM
Sean's heritage - mother Rotuman and father Irish - seems to have combined to produce a person who speaks like a Jamaican Rastafarian - his accent causing great mirth among the players.
Interestingly there is a strong theory that the Jamaican accent is derived from the Cork accent.
Thousands of slaves, prisoners and exiles from county Cork ended up in the Caribbean centuries ago.
There is definitely the same sort of intonation to them...mon!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: ludermor on November 24, 2009, 03:18:05 PM
Sean's heritage - mother Rotuman and father Irish - seems to have combined to produce a person who speaks like a Jamaican Rastafarian - his accent causing great mirth among the players.
Interestingly there is a strong theory that the Jamaican accent is derived from the Cork accent.
Thousands of slaves, prisoners and exiles from county Cork ended up in the Caribbean centuries ago.
There is definitely the same sort of intonation to them...mon!
Yeah there was a thead a while back about the slaves who got moved to barbados during Cromwells time ( think it was 'To Hell or Barbados')
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: Celt_Man on November 24, 2009, 03:30:10 PM

Very very surprised but delighted he's gone with sexton. could be the making of him,

On an unrelated subject. How badly are we going to get it in the ass in the scrum?

While I'm not an expert on rugby, I'm pretty sure your idea of the scrum there isn't correct...

Good to see Kidney has the balls to make huge calls, surprised with the bench with Buckley and Stringer on it...  I believe Stringer had a fine game in the A match in Ravenhill a couple of weeks ago but thought Reddan done very well on Saturday in terrible conditions..

I wondered at the time, and I think Ryle might have mentioned in the coverage, when he put O'Leary on at scrum half with still 20 minutes to go against Fiji was Kidney having a look at the potential half back partnership for the 'Boks.   The reasoning was I would have thought Reddan would have got more than an hour
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2009, 04:11:23 PM
Sean's heritage - mother Rotuman and father Irish - seems to have combined to produce a person who speaks like a Jamaican Rastafarian - his accent causing great mirth among the players.
Interestingly there is a strong theory that the Jamaican accent is derived from the Cork accent.
Thousands of slaves, prisoners and exiles from county Cork ended up in the Caribbean centuries ago.
There is definitely the same sort of intonation to them...mon!
Yeah there was a thead a while back about the slaves who got moved to barbados during Cromwells time ( think it was 'To Hell or Barbados')

That's the name of the book.

Thread here: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13181.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13181.0)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: bcarrier on November 24, 2009, 04:28:54 PM
IMO Reddan had a shocker on Saturday. As much as Sexton played his way into the team Reddan played his way out. FWIW O'Leary isnt setting world alight either.

Glad to see Sexton given his chance. I hope he gets a decent platform.

Our backrow needs to up their game and you would have to be fearful for the front row - though the refs interpretation will be crucial there.

Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: trileacman on November 24, 2009, 05:09:59 PM
IMO Reddan had a shocker on Saturday. As much as Sexton played his way into the team Reddan played his way out. FWIW O'Leary isnt setting world alight either.

Glad to see Sexton given his chance. I hope he gets a decent platform.

Our backrow needs to up their game and you would have to be fearful for the front row - though the refs interpretation will be crucial there.

Looking forward to it.

Agreed, OL hasnt exactly played that well for Ireland of late. Suprised to see Kidney go for Sexton. O'Gara whilst not as good as Sexton, he was certainly not bad against a tough Austrailia.

It says alot about Kidney though this selection. Not his percieved conservatism or his differences from EOS but rather what he thinks this match is worth. It will be interesting to see what we thinks a 6 nations game is worth come Spring.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 24, 2009, 06:02:58 PM
Brave call by Deccie but probably the right one. Sexton isn't going to turn into an established international ten playing against the likes of Fiji.

Could be the kick up the arse ROG needs as well. He showed signs of coming back to form against Australia and it'll be interesting to see if he keeps that up in the remaining rounds of the Heineken. Could be an interesting 6N, I imagine they might share the ten jersey during it.

Looking forward to Saturday now. Confident we'll put up a good show and win by a score or two. Having Gert Smal in our coaching ranks could be a big advantage.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Fiji, 21 November
Post by: ludermor on November 24, 2009, 06:06:30 PM
Sean's heritage - mother Rotuman and father Irish - seems to have combined to produce a person who speaks like a Jamaican Rastafarian - his accent causing great mirth among the players.
Interestingly there is a strong theory that the Jamaican accent is derived from the Cork accent.
Thousands of slaves, prisoners and exiles from county Cork ended up in the Caribbean centuries ago.
There is definitely the same sort of intonation to them...mon!
Yeah there was a thead a while back about the slaves who got moved to barbados during Cromwells time ( think it was 'To Hell or Barbados')

That's the name of the book.

Thread here: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13181.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13181.0)
Cheers Muppet
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: ludermor on November 24, 2009, 06:08:28 PM
Hope sexton has a stormer, it would be great to have genuine competition for O'Gara.
Really lookin gofrward to this game, ill have the hipflask ready for action. Many going to the game?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 26, 2009, 12:34:28 PM
Seán O'Brien called up onto the bench for Leamy. Hope he gets some time against the SA back-row. Class act this lad.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 02:14:47 PM
Kick off delayed by 5 minutes -


How do we think it'll go ??


Conditions are good.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 02:22:58 PM
Kick off delayed by 5 minutes -


How do we think it'll go ??


Conditions are good.

No early try concession today please.

Expect a few scraps.

Then hopefully we win against lots of sin-binnings.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: comethekingdom on November 28, 2009, 02:39:50 PM
I've just put a wee bet on Paddy Power for us to win. I think the introduction of Sexton should be a great move! :)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 02:45:20 PM
The amount of kicking is shocking.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 02:49:38 PM
That's a good kick though! 3-0
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 02:49:47 PM
Great start by Ireland - soaking up the pressure. And landing the first 3 points.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 02:53:35 PM
The lads in the studio were talking about Nigel Owens being a homer of a ref. Isn't doing Ireland any harm so far.

South Africa according to Hook haven't been happy with reffing on this tour.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 02:55:07 PM
The lads in the studio were talking about Nigel Owens being a homer of a ref. Isn't doing Ireland any harm so far.

South Africa according to Hook haven't been happy with reffing on this tour.

We are being killed in the scrum.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 02:56:38 PM
Try Burger.

No scrum no hope.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 03:00:05 PM
How does O'Driscoll do that?

Worst Irish scrum I've ever seen on half way and we get right up to the line.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Square Ball on November 28, 2009, 03:00:30 PM
big chance here
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 03:00:54 PM
How does O'Driscoll do that? Worst Irish scrum I've ever seen on half way and we get right up to the line.


Amazing.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: comethekingdom on November 28, 2009, 03:07:19 PM
Paddy Wallace has hard luck with injuries.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 03:08:19 PM
Our forwards doing well everywhere except the scrum.

Backs doing well also.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 03:13:08 PM
6 - 10

Another good kick by Sexton
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: comethekingdom on November 28, 2009, 03:14:00 PM
Rodge will have bother getting the 10 shirt back off Sexton - Flawless so far with the boot.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 03:15:45 PM
Rodge will have bother getting the 10 shirt back off Sexton - Flawless so far with the boot.

And he can recycle in contact which O'Gara can't.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: comethekingdom on November 28, 2009, 03:21:40 PM
Aye. About time Ireland had a no 10 that can take the ball into contact.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 03:23:21 PM
Rodge will have bother getting the 10 shirt back off Sexton - Flawless so far with the boot.


Dead eye dick - good player - O'Gara will be very worried.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 28, 2009, 03:28:02 PM
We're suffering at the scrum and we can't really get any momentum going at the moment.

South African defence is very solid and the second half will be a real scrap.

Johnny Sexton's kicking out of hand has been a bit patchy but that is understandable given that its really his first competitive international. Apart from that he has been quite accomplished. O'Leary has been poor enough again. His box-kicking has cost us a few times. I'd like to see Stringer given a go in the second half to mix things up a bit.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 03:31:44 PM
We're suffering at the scrum and we can't really get any momentum going at the moment.

South African defence is very solid and the second half will be a real scrap.

Johnny Sexton's kicking out of hand has been a bit patchy but that is understandable given that its really his first competitive international. Apart from that he has been quite accomplished. O'Leary has been poor enough again. His box-kicking has cost us a few times. I'd like to see Stringer given a go in the second half to mix things up a bit.

O'Leary has made a couple of good breaks but takes the wrong option too often and the box kicking is terrible.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Eastern_Pride on November 28, 2009, 03:34:17 PM
Anyone noticed SA lying all over the ball constantly, especially Morne Steyn which Owens is ignoring. All in all not bad Sexton has been solid.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 28, 2009, 03:35:30 PM
We're suffering at the scrum and we can't really get any momentum going at the moment.

South African defence is very solid and the second half will be a real scrap.

Johnny Sexton's kicking out of hand has been a bit patchy but that is understandable given that its really his first competitive international. Apart from that he has been quite accomplished. O'Leary has been poor enough again. His box-kicking has cost us a few times. I'd like to see Stringer given a go in the second half to mix things up a bit.

O'Leary has made a couple of good breaks but takes the wrong option too often and the box kicking is terrible.

He has made two or three good snipes around the fringes but he has been getting isolated far too often.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 03:36:42 PM
Ferris off.

O'Brien on wonder will Wallace go to 6?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 03:37:15 PM
Seán O'Brien called up onto the bench for Leamy. Hope he gets some time against the SA back-row. Class act this lad.


O'Brien on now for the injured Ferris.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 03:42:29 PM
Some woeful SA penalty kicks at goal - me hopes they'll regret them.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 03:46:08 PM
9 - 10 officials helping us out a bit. Another good kick from Jonny.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 03:46:57 PM
9 - 10 officials helping us out a bit. Another good kick from Jonny.



SA not liking the reffing -


Immaculate is pretty apt alright.



Rob Kearney is some player.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 03:50:41 PM
9 - 10 officials helping us out a bit. Another good kick from Jonny.



Officials are winning this game for Ireland.


Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 03:51:24 PM
Filthy from South Africa but the officials are picking it up.

12- 10
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Schkite on November 28, 2009, 03:53:56 PM
Sexton putting on an exhibition of kicking here for only his 2nd cap, nerves of steel. We're lucky though that Steyn is having a nightmare with his kicking.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: tyroneboi on November 28, 2009, 03:56:28 PM
9 - 10 officials helping us out a bit. Another good kick from Jonny.



Officials are winning this game for Ireland.

Wouldnt say that at all. South Africa are being indisciplined and the referee is righty clamping down on them.

Sexton has been solid as a rock so far, kicking from hand and the ground has been immaculate. He is the man in possession now and O'Gara is going to have a hell of a battle to take the jersey of him now but it may be a case of horses for courses come the 6N between the two men. Not his biggest fan but O'Leary has been good as well so far today.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: tyroneboi on November 28, 2009, 04:00:30 PM
O'Driscoll was immense there to get that penalty. The forwards are taking it on a little too much when we are within 5 metres of their try line in my opinion.

Poor kick - he is human after all!!

Still 12-10.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:01:08 PM
Great passage of play especially from the forwards, crowd right behind them.

Jonny is human.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 04:01:36 PM
A rare miss there.


SA rattled big time.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:07:00 PM
15 - 10
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Schkite on November 28, 2009, 04:07:05 PM
Great recovery by Sexton after his 1st miss, 5 point lead.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Schkite on November 28, 2009, 04:09:21 PM
SA kickers continue to have a nightmare game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:12:19 PM
South Africa are filthy b**tards.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: tyroneboi on November 28, 2009, 04:12:24 PM
High tackle there no doubt about it. Bowe has developed into a fantastic international winger.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 04:12:36 PM
High tackle missed by Mr. Owens.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Schkite on November 28, 2009, 04:14:09 PM
Thats two yellow cards SA should have got now.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 28, 2009, 04:15:28 PM
How in the name of god did he miss the offside, never mind the high tackle? Owens is usually one of the better whistlers but he is having a bit of a mare today.

Kearney is immense under the high ball. My MOTM so far.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:16:09 PM
Kearney has been immense. Hard to understand why South Africa keep kicking to him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 04:16:37 PM
How in the name of god did he miss the offside, never mind the high tackle? Owens is usually one of the better whistlers but he is having a bit of a mare today.

Kearney is immense under the high ball. My MOTM so far.
[/b]



No question - MOTM - It's like throwing buns to a bear !
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 28, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Heaslip=Tarzan  ;D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:22:26 PM
Heaslip had a great game and has become an outstanding international number 8.

Must win this line-out.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:25:16 PM
Some decision from Owens.  >:(
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 04:26:13 PM
Some decision from Owens.  >:(

Holding on I thought - one big scrum.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:26:43 PM
Not happy with O'Leary's box kick when we had the ball with a minute to go.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 04:27:26 PM
All over - well done IRELAND.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v South Africa, 28 November
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:27:43 PM
O'Driscoll wins the game by concussing himself, huge hit.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: stiffler on November 28, 2009, 04:28:24 PM
o'driscoll- legend
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 28, 2009, 04:28:44 PM
What a hit by O'Driscoll. Talk about putting your body on the line.

Great win especially considering the mess that was made of our scrum. Roll on the 6N
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Schkite on November 28, 2009, 04:28:57 PM
Fantastic defence there by BOD at the death.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 04:31:57 PM
Ref is getting a bit of touch from Hook now.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: FL/MAYO on November 28, 2009, 04:36:41 PM
Great win by Ireland, Kearney is a class player absolutely brilliant under the high ball. Another grind it out win for Ireland very similar to the way Munster used to play when Kidney was in charge.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on November 28, 2009, 04:38:34 PM
Good a win as it was there's a major problem with the Sport. The Northern Hemisphere's best and southern Hemisphere's best serve up one try between them. Referee was a problemA great win but all in all a very poor match.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Lecale2 on November 28, 2009, 04:38:50 PM
Great win alright. Looking forward to the 6 Nations.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: ziggysego on November 28, 2009, 04:43:25 PM
Well done Ireland. Ireland took a few heavy knocks today.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:45:37 PM
Good a win as it was there's a major problem with the Sport. The Northern Hemisphere's best and southern Hemisphere's best serve up one try between them. Referee was a problemA great win but all in all a very poor match.

The aerial ping pong is very annoying alright and needs to be dealt with.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: tyroneboi on November 28, 2009, 04:46:46 PM
Good a win as it was there's a major problem with the Sport. The Northern Hemisphere's best and southern Hemisphere's best serve up one try between them. Referee was a problemA great win but all in all a very poor match.

There doesn't always have to be a try-fest to make it a great game. Personally I thought it was a good game with a high intensity from both sides throughout the game. Some of the hits were massive and there was always an edge to the game which is often missing in these Autumn internationals.

Agree with you that the lack of tries in the highest levels of the sport is a problem. Its hard to know what the solution to this would be though??
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: SLIGONIAN on November 28, 2009, 04:46:59 PM
Absolutely delighted, Having met loads of South Africans out here im not one bit endeared to them but not going into it. But had to listen to there commentary, clowns.

Fair play to Sexton though, young lad did well but faded. Kearney is immense at high balls is right.

This Irish team is brilliant. Grand Slam again for the taking. Thought it was nice to see ROG smiling when Sexton got one of his kicks.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 04:48:21 PM
Absolutely delighted, Having met loads of South Africans out here im not one bit endeared to them but not going into it. But had to listen to there commentary, clowns.

Fair play to Sexton though, young lad did well but faded. Kearney is immense at high balls is right.

This Irish team is brilliant. Grand Slam again for the taking. Thought it was nice to see ROG smiling when Sexton got one of his kicks.

It'll be between us and France, who play New Zealand tonight.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 28, 2009, 04:51:32 PM
Our record in Paris is abysmal but hopefully we can put that right next year. England will always be tough to beat at Twickenham no matter how bad some of their players are but the days of Irish players travelling with fear to London are long gone.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: orangeman on November 28, 2009, 04:55:22 PM
Our record in Paris is abysmal but hopefully we can put that right next year. England will always be tough to beat at Twickenham no matter how bad some of their players are but the days of Irish players travelling with fear to London are long gone.
[/b]


Definitely the glory years.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: comethekingdom on November 28, 2009, 05:04:12 PM
Is France V New Zealand on telly tonite?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 05:05:09 PM
Is France V New Zealand on telly tonite?

On RTE around 730.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: comethekingdom on November 28, 2009, 05:07:36 PM
Splendid!
Thanks Muppet
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Main Street on November 28, 2009, 05:09:26 PM
Stalwart defense at the end from when the ball was inches away from the line.
Good to have Ireland still pushing their class around at the top.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Shamrock Shore on November 28, 2009, 05:11:46 PM
Dour game but good result.

Best Irish rugby season ever has to be applauded.

Doubt if the Dricos and the O'Connells have gaaboard.com in their bookmarks, but, if they do, well done lads.


Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 05:45:52 PM
A South African perspective from http://www.rugby365.com/all_news/nbc/ireland/news/2082920.htm (http://www.rugby365.com/all_news/nbc/ireland/news/2082920.htm)

Sean O'Brien came on for Ferris not Leamy. Very harsh on our front row but from their point of view our scrum must have looked comical. D'Arcy did better than 5/10 I thought as well.

15 Rob Kearney:
He was solid under pressure, and oh so great under the high ball. As always electric on counter and some incredible touch finders.
8/10

14 Tommy Bowe:
Had a couple of runs, with one great switch - but few chances on attack. Solid under high ball.
6/10

13 Brian O'Driscoll (captain):
Produced an incredible break early on, showed his class and worming his way out of a attempted John Smit tackle. He did give a penalty away for off-the-ball tackle and a knock later, but then won a crucial penalty.
8/10

12 Paddy Wallace:
Left the field early with ankle injury - very little time to make an impact.
5/10

11 Keith Earls:
Good early run, then some good kick-and-chasing, but few chances on attack.
6/10

10 Jonathan Sexton:
What a find for Ireland. Even though he was well looked after by the Bok defenders, he produced some good touchfinders. And his goal-kicking was so much better than Steyn.
8/10

9 Tomas O'Leary:
Penalised for skew feed early, otherwise decent service. Nothing special.
6/10

8 Jamie Heaslip:
Good behind retreating scrum and as strong on the run. In the thick of things throughout the game
7/10

7 David Wallace:
As always a menace at the breakdown, and along with Heaslip kept the Bok loose forwards very busy.
7/10

6 Stephen Ferris:
Good link to backs, but replaced at half-time. Steady, rather than spectacular.
6/10

5 Paul O'Connell:
A good steal from Matfield and generally very solid in line-out. Lots of carries, showing good strength - but did give away a silly penalty. Overall, masterclass.
9/10

4 Donncha O'Callaghan:
Was working very hard at the breakdown and provided a physical presence, which South Africa seemed to lack.
7/10

3 John Hayes:
Gave away a penalty for offside, and under pressure in scrums - often collapsing. Worked hard outside the set pieces, but his basics lack.
4/10

2 Jerry Flannery:
Skew line-out throw and also struggle in scrums. Driven back too often with ball in hand and just not up to it.
4/10

1 Cian Healy:
Like the rest of his front row he was in trouble in scrums, and gave away a penalty. Provided little else.
4/10

Replacements:

16 Sean Cronin:
Not used.

17 Tony Buckley:
Not used.

18 Leo Cullen:
Not used.

19 Denis Leamy (on for Ferris at half-time):
Worked hard at the breakdown, often found at the bottom of rucks.
6/10

20 Peter Stringer:
Not used.

21 Ronan O'Gara:
Not used.

22 Gordon D'Arcy (on for Wallace - 21st min):
He was well looked after and showed little on attack. There's a reason why he plays off the bench.
5/10
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: tyroneboi on November 28, 2009, 05:52:02 PM
Those ratings were a biit harsh on D'Arcy as well I thought. He is definitely the best man to partner BOD in the middle. Lets hope he finds something like his best form come the 6 Nations.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: gawa316 on November 28, 2009, 06:09:02 PM
What's the craic with all the handlebar moustaches?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: SLIGONIAN on November 28, 2009, 06:16:25 PM
What's the craic with all the handlebar moustaches?

The commentary said its to do with fundraising for Movember, a prostate cancer charity. Great cause and one that affects alot of people. Fair play to all. Basically I think it involves not shaving for the month or something like that.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 06:27:08 PM
What's the craic with all the handlebar moustaches?

The commentary said its to do with fundraising for Movember, a prostate cancer charity. Great cause and one that affects alot of people. Fair play to all. Basically I think it involves not shaving for the month or something like that.

That's in the South, up North it is not washing for a month. Well supported too.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on November 28, 2009, 07:01:16 PM
What's the craic with all the handlebar moustaches?

The commentary said its to do with fundraising for Movember, a prostate cancer charity. Great cause and one that affects alot of people. Fair play to all. Basically I think it involves not shaving for the month or something like that.

That's in the South, up North it is not washing for a month. Well supported too.

That's the traditional attempt. However the abundance of water in the South lately made such a commitment impossible for many so they dont shave instead.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: CountyGK on November 28, 2009, 07:15:57 PM
hi im simon ba
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Hardy on November 28, 2009, 07:22:16 PM
Watched it on BBC (Ryle gives me a pain in my ryle Irish arse) and Butler and Mathews agreed it was the best refereeing performance of the Autumn series. So there y'are.

I don't agree with those who think there's too much kicking in the game. The more kicking the better in a game with "football" in its name, as far as I'm concerned. Especially since they've removed the stupidity that lets you gain from belting the ball off the field (except for penalties). Good positional kicking is interesting to watch, I think, though I don't get the persistent use of the box kick - concedes possession practically 100% of the time, for very little, if any, positional gain.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 07:53:56 PM
hi im simon ba

Hi welcome to the board. Something tells me you are from Roscommon?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: omagh_gael on November 28, 2009, 07:59:02 PM
Watched it on BBC (Ryle gives me a pain in my ryle Irish arse) and Butler and Mathews agreed it was the best refereeing performance of the Autumn series. So there y'are.

I don't agree with those who think there's too much kicking in the game. The more kicking the better in a game with "football" in its name, as far as I'm concerned. Especially since they've removed the stupidity that lets you gain from belting the ball off the field (except for penalties). Good positional kicking is interesting to watch, I think, though I don't get the persistent use of the box kick - concedes possession practically 100% of the time, for very little, if any, positional gain.

Interesting that George Hook gave him an awful bashing! A part from the glaring miss of the high tackle on Bowe and the offside that followed I didn't think he was too bad.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Main Street on November 28, 2009, 08:42:25 PM
hi im simon ba

Hi welcome to the board. Something tells me you are from Roscommon?
Buggered unconscious just before he could finish the sentence.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 08:43:18 PM
hi im simon ba

Hi welcome to the board. Something tells me you are from Roscommon?
Buggered unconscious just before he could finish the sentence.

Thanks for shearing that with us.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2009, 09:21:57 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Typical Springbok tackle today. Ref unsighted so high tackle. Touch judges picked up a couple of these but missed most of them.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 28, 2009, 10:58:34 PM
good to see France getting beat tonight. not that i have anything great love for the all blacks, but i thought France were looking good recently. If Ireland can keep their heads and injury free, i have a feeling that that game in Paris on the 2nd weekend of the 6N could be a title decider. they are better then England and should win, even in Twickenham, and home advantage should see us home in the other 3.

Sportsmen in the UK get knighthoods and MBE's for fcuk all. Whats the equivelant down south. Whatever it is, BOD should get one. The most complete player of the last decade anywhere in the world. Hope he wins the IRB player of 2009 award shortly.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: 5 Sams on November 28, 2009, 11:01:19 PM
I'm a total philistine when it comes to the egg chasing lads but O'Driscoll's tackle at the end was unreal. Is he the best in the world in his position??? Every time I watch the team play he comes up with something special
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 28, 2009, 11:14:38 PM
good to see France getting beat tonight. not that i have anything great love for the all blacks, but i thought France were looking good recently. If Ireland can keep their heads and injury free, i have a feeling that that game in Paris on the 2nd weekend of the 6N could be a title decider. they are better then England and should win, even in Twickenham, and home advantage should see us home in the other 3.

Sportsmen in the UK get knighthoods and MBE's for fcuk all. Whats the equivelant down south. Whatever it is, BOD should get one. The most complete player of the last decade anywhere in the world. Hope he wins the IRB player of 2009 award shortly.

McCaw won it.  :-\

Kidney won the coach of the year award though. 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: CountyGK on November 29, 2009, 10:53:06 AM
lads sorry about that last nite, it wasnt me, it was one of my mates messin about hacking into my account!!

good win yesterday for ireland though, sexton very good from placed balls, any news on wallace's or ferris' injuries

and no, im not from roscommon!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: stephenite on November 29, 2009, 11:17:22 AM
What's the craic with all the handlebar moustaches?

Probably charity fundraising for Movember
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Gnevin on November 29, 2009, 11:23:34 AM
I'm a total philistine when it comes to the egg chasing lads but O'Driscoll's tackle at the end was unreal. Is he the best in the world in his position??? Every time I watch the team play he comes up with something special
No doubt he's the best 13 in the world .
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: longrunsthefox on November 29, 2009, 11:27:36 AM
good to see France getting beat tonight. not that i have anything great love for the all blacks, but i thought France were looking good recently. If Ireland can keep their heads and injury free, i have a feeling that that game in Paris on the 2nd weekend of the 6N could be a title decider. they are better then England and should win, even in Twickenham, and home advantage should see us home in the other 3.

Sportsmen in the UK get knighthoods and MBE's for fcuk all. Whats the equivelant down south. Whatever it is, BOD should get one. The most complete player of the last decade anywhere in the world. Hope he wins the IRB player of 2009 award shortly.

McCaw won it.  :-\

Kidney won the coach of the year award though.
[/quote
 
Have to agree with George Hook on that on about O'Driscoll-McCaw award...'Who-the-hell-cares?' Like the All Stars is a matter of opinion and often personal agendas and biases seem to come into it. As good as Irealnd are these days, I couldn't see them living with that All Black (and white) team... not yet anyway.   
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: CountyGK on November 29, 2009, 12:05:20 PM
heard some of the bbc analysts a few weeks back sayin that france would be favourites for the 6 nations, dallilageo said england would win it, others said wales as well, but ireland are surely favourites big time
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 29, 2009, 12:49:23 PM
programme tomorrow night RTE1 9.35 about Irelands year. Should be the best programme of this nature for the last 60 odd years !!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Gnevin on November 29, 2009, 01:10:53 PM
heard some of the bbc analysts a few weeks back sayin that france would be favourites for the 6 nations, dallilageo said england would win it, others said wales as well, but ireland are surely favourites big time
Despite what we seen yesterday,they tend to blow hot and cold. France would be favourites ,their scrum against SA was massive and our record in Paris is just terrible.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: magickingdom on November 29, 2009, 04:27:37 PM
great achievement for ireland to go unbeaten thro 2009. hard to believe how low we were at the wc and the end of the e o sullivan era and now this. next to go unbeaten in a wc year!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: johnpower on November 29, 2009, 08:15:11 PM
Good win ,Dont have much time for some of this South African team after the Loins tour . Was offered a ticket but decided that as Ireland never win when I go to see them play (0 from 12 so far ) I would watch it on the telly
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 29, 2009, 10:54:47 PM
Solid performance if unspectacular, beat the Springbok at their own game, Kearney, Bowe and Earls all very comfortable under the high ball, all 3 have solid GAA backgrounds and it shows.

Not much to add that already been said expect I thought O'Leary was exceptional today in that he played like an extra flanker and made sure we won our own ball by hitting the ruck when he had to.

Kidney is a definitely a role model for any aspiring coach across any code and his subtle transformation of this team has been fantastic to behold.

Think I'll travel to the France game as that will be the title decider.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on November 30, 2009, 01:07:17 AM
Solid performance if unspectacular, beat the Springbok at their own game, Kearney, Bowe and Earls all very comfortable under the high ball, all 3 have solid GAA backgrounds and it shows.

Not much to add that already been said expect I thought O'Leary was exceptional today in that he played like an extra flanker and made sure we won our own ball by hitting the ruck when he had to.

Kidney is a definitely a role model for any aspiring coach across any code and his subtle transformation of this team has been fantastic to behold.

Think I'll travel to the France game as that will be the title decider.

Whilst Im aware of the other two's GAA background is that one about Earls true? Didnt realise he had much of a GAA background? ???
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Gnevin on November 30, 2009, 08:57:05 AM
Injury setback for Leinster as Sexton suffers broken hand

   
Fly-half Jonathan Sexton played on against South Africa, despite breaking two fingers during the match.
IRELAND hero Jonathan Sexton proved to be as brave as he is skilful by playing out Saturday's thrilling 15-10 win over world champions South Africa with a broken hand.

The out-half contributed all of his side's points with five penalties at Croke Park and, despite breaking two fingers in his hand during the second half, was then part of Ireland's desperate defensive effort to keep out the Springboks as the visitors came in search of a winning score with the last play of the game.

Sexton had an X-ray on his hand after the match and will undergo further scans this week but looks certain to miss Leinster's back-to-back Heineken Cup pool clashes with the Scarlets next month.


However, Saturday's heroics capped a spectacular month for the 24-year-old who was man of the match on his international debut against Fiji a week earlier. Ireland coach Declan Kidney expressed his satisfaction that, with Ronan O'Gara also impressing in the draw with Australia, he now has access to two top-quality outside halves.

blessing

"Maybe if ROG was playing, we'd have won by more, who knows?" noted Kidney. "It's just a blessing to have an up-and-coming out-half and a world-class out-half, long may that continue."

Ireland's victory means they end the year unbeaten with nine victories and a draw from 10 matches while picking up their first Grand Slam in 61 years but it was their latest victims who picked up the IRB team of the year award following their Lions Series and Tri-Nations successes.

Ireland coach Kidney won the coach of the year award but his captain Brian O'Driscoll, despite Grand Slam and Heineken Cup glory for country and club, was surprisingly overlooked for the player of the year award in favour of New Zealand's captain Richie McCaw, who shone in the All Blacks' win over France on Saturday.

- Hugh Farrelly

Irish Independent

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/autumn-internationals/injury-setback-for-leinster-as-sexton-suffers-broken-hand-1958641.html

Not good for Leinster
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: deiseach on November 30, 2009, 09:06:35 AM
I'm a total philistine when it comes to the egg chasing lads but O'Driscoll's tackle at the end was unreal. Is he the best in the world in his position??? Every time I watch the team play he comes up with something special
No doubt he's the best 13 in the world .

I'd go so far as to say he is the best centre I've ever seen. I remember against England last year Ireland were camped on their line and needed someone to get the hard yard so they threw the ball to O'Driscoll, shoulder injury and all, and there was only ever going to be one result. Some ladyboy.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: DuffleKing on November 30, 2009, 10:47:28 AM

Any links to game highlights lads?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: omagh_gael on November 30, 2009, 11:05:39 AM

Any links to game highlights lads?

Cant find any highlights but here's a link to the full game on iPlayer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p4qvx/Rugby_Union_2009_2010_Ireland_v_South_Africa/
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: screenexile on November 30, 2009, 11:31:26 AM
You could have substituted those white jersies Ireland were wearing for red ones. I thought it was a real Munster performance. We were getting pummelled in the scrum but our defence held up well and with their backs against the wall a few times. Then when the opportunities presented themselves we took them. Reminded me of Munster’s performance against Clermont Auvergne a few years ago where they pulled out a bonus point victory having struggled for long periods in the game.

Not a spectacular performance but a champions one in that we didn’t play as well as we can but we still won the game.

Was very disappointed in South Africa. Steyn was WOEFUL and Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

I’m also impressed with how Kidney seems to encourage invention and that we do try and run the ball and play the rugby when other teams would be happy to boot ball down the pitch. Sexton has that youthful exuberance that ROG is lacking at this stage to try some things out of the ordinary and that should be encouraged.

We have a good kicking game, good lineout, good running game but the 2 things that worry me for the future are the breakdown and the scrum. Our play at the breakdown has improved but it needs to be taken to another level to compete with the Aussies and the All Blacks. Our scrum was destroyed at times and I think Healy and Flannery need some serious coaching over the next while and it’s time to find a replacement for the Bull. I am a big Hayes fan and to me he has done every bit as much for Ireland as O’Driscoll or O’Gara but our scrum work is deteriorating and it needs improving very soon.

All in all I think we are in good shape for the 6N and as mentioned previously France is the main game for us providing we don’t produce any horror shows (which don’t tend to happen under Kidney). I am really looking forward to it and 2 Championships in a row would be a magnificent achievement!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on November 30, 2009, 11:35:30 AM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: screenexile on November 30, 2009, 11:50:07 AM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

Can't agree with that. Ireland on the whole score less tries than Wales did when they won their 2 Grand Slams. In proportion I would say Kearney will score just as many.

As for his attacking while Kearney wouldn't have the same pace as Byrne I think he's a great broken field runner on the counter attack and his finishing skills will improve immensely over the next few years. Remember Byrne has 6 years on him and didn't make his Wales debut until he was 25 and Kearney already has 2 International seasons behind him at 23. I firmly believe Kearney will establish himself this year!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2009, 11:50:53 AM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

Byrne is a better attacker but Kearney is as good a defender and there is no one better under the high ball which is sadly a huge part of today's game. Kearney is also 5 or 6 years younger.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: INDIANA on November 30, 2009, 11:55:22 AM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

absolutely spot on at last someone has it right. How dumb is de villers. After seeing kearney catch everything under the sun in the Lions tour he uses the same gameplan last saturday. I mean dense or what?

The aussies showed how to limit kearney- don't kick to him. Now he's still a very fine rugby player and one of our best but he not the world's best FB.
That is an insult to Lee Byrne and Muliana who gave a display last saturday night against France that was sublime. Kearney hasn't the gas or outside break to be the worlds best. He's about 3rd best which is no shame whatsoever.
The only Irish players who are the world's best are BOD and POC. And thats a fact. When they go we will then realise how good they were.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: orangeman on November 30, 2009, 12:01:21 PM
Odds on the Six Nations :


France 7/4 fav
Ireland 3/1
Wales 4/1
England 9/2
Scotland 20/1
Italy - any price you want.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: johnneycool on November 30, 2009, 12:13:27 PM
Good win for Ireland but major concerns about how easy the scrum was overwhelmed when South Africa got going especially when bull Hayes is on the way out. Young Healy will improve and probably got a good education on saturday which will stand by him. Is there no other young props out there who need a bit of game time?

Dan Carter gave a master class in Marseille and was probably closest to giving his colleague and captain Richie McCaw a run for IRB player of the year. Pity big Popie didn't get him signed for St Mary's a few year back  ;D

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 30, 2009, 12:29:29 PM
Whilst Im aware of the other two's GAA background is that one about Earls true? Didnt realise he had much of a GAA background? ???

Earls played a bit of hurling and football when he was younger. Heard he played for the South Liberties club (JP McManus' colors), but could be wrong on that.

As for the Kearney/Byrne argument, both are similarish players. Neither are great front up tacklers but both have huge left boots. Kearney is more solid under the high ball and Byrne probably has the edge as a broken field runner. Kearney is six years younger than Byrne though.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: gallsman on November 30, 2009, 01:14:55 PM
heard some of the bbc analysts a few weeks back sayin that france would be favourites for the 6 nations, dallilageo said england would win it, others said wales as well, but ireland are surely favourites big time

France definitely favourites.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: gallsman on November 30, 2009, 01:20:17 PM
I'm a total philistine when it comes to the egg chasing lads but O'Driscoll's tackle at the end was unreal. Is he the best in the world in his position??? Every time I watch the team play he comes up with something special
No doubt he's the best 13 in the world .

I'd go so far as to say he is the best centre I've ever seen. I remember against England last year Ireland were camped on their line and needed someone to get the hard yard so they threw the ball to O'Driscoll, shoulder injury and all, and there was only ever going to be one result. Some ladyboy.

Francis (much as I despise him) had a great article in the Tribune last week about the arrival of Pocock and the advent of the crucial "search and destroy" role for modern day flankers. Mentioned, quite rightly that Ireland had one of the best in the world at that particular role, but unfortunately he plays at 13!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: gallsman on November 30, 2009, 01:25:35 PM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

absolutely spot on at last someone has it right. How dumb is de villers. After seeing kearney catch everything under the sun in the Lions tour he uses the same gameplan last saturday. I mean dense or what?

The aussies showed how to limit kearney- don't kick to him. Now he's still a very fine rugby player and one of our best but he not the world's best FB.
That is an insult to Lee Byrne and Muliana who gave a display last saturday night against France that was sublime. Kearney hasn't the gas or outside break to be the worlds best. He's about 3rd best which is no shame whatsoever.
The only Irish players who are the world's best are BOD and POC. And thats a fact. When they go we will then realise how good they were.

Much as I love POC, and even though Matfield was bested on Saturday, I'd still have either he or Chris Jack as the #1
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2009, 01:37:48 PM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

absolutely spot on at last someone has it right. How dumb is de villers. After seeing kearney catch everything under the sun in the Lions tour he uses the same gameplan last saturday. I mean dense or what?

The aussies showed how to limit kearney- don't kick to him. Now he's still a very fine rugby player and one of our best but he not the world's best FB.
That is an insult to Lee Byrne and Muliana who gave a display last saturday night against France that was sublime. Kearney hasn't the gas or outside break to be the worlds best. He's about 3rd best which is no shame whatsoever.
The only Irish players who are the world's best are BOD and POC. And thats a fact. When they go we will then realise how good they were.

Do you understand the difference between a fact and an opinion?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Rav67 on November 30, 2009, 01:59:58 PM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

Course he does.  What INDIANA says is fact and what everyone else says is opinion.

absolutely spot on at last someone has it right. How dumb is de villers. After seeing kearney catch everything under the sun in the Lions tour he uses the same gameplan last saturday. I mean dense or what?

The aussies showed how to limit kearney- don't kick to him. Now he's still a very fine rugby player and one of our best but he not the world's best FB.
That is an insult to Lee Byrne and Muliana who gave a display last saturday night against France that was sublime. Kearney hasn't the gas or outside break to be the worlds best. He's about 3rd best which is no shame whatsoever.
The only Irish players who are the world's best are BOD and POC. And thats a fact. When they go we will then realise how good they were.

Do you understand the difference between a fact and an opinion?

Course he does. What INDIANA says is fact and what everyone else says is opinion.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on November 30, 2009, 03:13:57 PM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

Byrne is a better attacker but Kearney is as good a defender and there is no one better under the high ball which is sadly a huge part of today's game. Kearney is also 5 or 6 years younger.
Don't really see how this is a major point. Yes it gives him time to develop into the worlds FB but doesnt aid the argument that now he is a better player. Agreed scoring alot less tries is a poor argument against Kearny but he is not as threatening an broken field runner as Byrne or Muiliana. Comparatively his open field running is probably not much higher a quality than Daiman Traille. He just looks better than him because he runs more porpuseful lines but in terms of outcome of these runs both would produce a very similar field position.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on November 30, 2009, 03:19:28 PM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

Byrne is a better attacker but Kearney is as good a defender and there is no one better under the high ball which is sadly a huge part of today's game. Kearney is also 5 or 6 years younger.

Byrne is noticeably a much better attacker than Kearney, much the same standard of defender, similar kicking lengths and only slightly less capable under the high ball compared to Kearney. It would not be considered a weak point in his repetoire. Overall (and i have absolutely no love for the Welsh) i would rate Byrne higher, but that's not to say Kearney cant make good on his promise. Kearney is also hamstrung by Kidneys tactics. Payne or Hurley were not attacking FB's and Kidney is shaping Kearney the same.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on November 30, 2009, 03:25:46 PM
Kearney lapped up everything that was thrown at him. He has a real chance to establish himself as the best full back in the world with Byrne out. In fairness I think he is better than Byrne anyway but the next few months will confirm this.

He's a poorer attacker than Byrne and scores alot less tries. As much as I want Kearny to be the best full back in the world I dont think he is as good as everyone makes out.

absolutely spot on at last someone has it right. How dumb is de villers. After seeing kearney catch everything under the sun in the Lions tour he uses the same gameplan last saturday. I mean dense or what?

The aussies showed how to limit kearney- don't kick to him. Now he's still a very fine rugby player and one of our best but he not the world's best FB.
That is an insult to Lee Byrne and Muliana who gave a display last saturday night against France that was sublime. Kearney hasn't the gas or outside break to be the worlds best. He's about 3rd best which is no shame whatsoever.
The only Irish players who are the world's best are BOD and POC. And thats a fact. When they go we will then realise how good they were.

Actually many of the SH posters on the rugby sites rate Kearney ahead of Byrne and even Muliaina. Kearney has more often than not saved his best displays for the SH teams (Ireland's 2008 Summer tour, 2009 Lions tour, 2009 Autumn internationals) . Byrne hasn't to the same degree. And Muliaina despite finishing off a great score the last night hasn't been playing that well this year by his own high standards. Not saying Kearney is the best but he is very highly thought off in rugby circles down south.

They probably rate Kearney higher than they do POC to be honest. Mainly again because he tends to nearly always play well against the SH sides whereas POC has mixed the very good (the last day for example) with the not so good (2005 Lions tour). As great a player as he has been for Ireland I doubt you would find many SH rugby fans who rate him as the world's best in his position. They would say he's up there but behind the likes of Matfield, Botha, Thorn, etc.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: INDIANA on November 30, 2009, 04:00:04 PM
Just look at his international strike rate compared to Muliana. I mean how deluded are we in this country? He's an excellent player without an outside break in my opinion.

That can't make you the worlds best. He's not suddenly going to get pace that he doesn't have. If he had Keith Earls pace he'd be the best because he'd be able to break the line. But he rarely ever hits the line for Ireland or Leinster. Granted he kicks better than muliana and byrne but the best fullbacks are about strike-rate and hitting the line- that what distinguises the great from the very good.

Its like people saying Ciaran mc donald was the best forward of the modern era despite having only one foot.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: orangeman on November 30, 2009, 04:01:03 PM
I love how civilised rugby is.



Boks accuse Heaslip of gouging
Monday, 30 November 2009 15:45
South Africa have asked the match citing commisioner to investigate a claim that the finger of Ireland's Jamie Heaslip made contact with the eye area of Heinrich Brüssow during Saturday's test match.

The South Africans claim the incident happened in the first half of the Guinness November Series clash, which Ireland won by 15-10 thanks to five Jonathan Sexton penalty kicks.

The claim follows on from Schalk Burger's 8-week ban for gouging on Irish wing Luke Fitzgerald in the opening seconds of the second Lions Test this summer and is the latest instalment of 'bad blood' between the sides.

A refusal to share post-match drinks during the Lions tour, and the South Africans' failure to clap their opponents off the field on Saturday are among other recent rancourous incidents.
Match citing commisioner Douglas Hunter has noted the complaint and will investigage the incident and review video evidence, if any exists, before deciding whether to cite Heaslip.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: omagh_gael on November 30, 2009, 04:11:45 PM
To be fair OM I was absolutely abhorred By kerry's refusal to clap Tyrone of the field in sept 08 and don't even get me started on the après match drinks issue, terrible terrible form altogether!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on November 30, 2009, 04:32:51 PM
Just look at his international strike rate compared to Muliana. I mean how deluded are we in this country? He's an excellent player without an outside break in my opinion.

In fairness comparing try scoring records isn't always the best way to assess a player's worth. BOD has 38 Irish tries. Had he played for the All-Blacks he could easily have near double that.

To suggest Kearney is up amongst the best in the world in his position is hardly delusion. Even the SH rugby fans who normally don't rate anything north of the equator almost universally sing his praises. He showed on the Lions tour and Ireland's 2008 Summer tour that he can counterattack as well as anyone when given his head and even the last day he made a couple of half breaks through midfield. He maybe doesn't quite have out and out pace but he is an elusive runner and all-round excellent footballer. Plus time is on his side to get even better.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: DuffleKing on November 30, 2009, 05:00:39 PM
Just look at his international strike rate compared to Muliana. I mean how deluded are we in this country? He's an excellent player without an outside break in my opinion.

That can't make you the worlds best. He's not suddenly going to get pace that he doesn't have. If he had Keith Earls pace he'd be the best because he'd be able to break the line. But he rarely ever hits the line for Ireland or Leinster. Granted he kicks better than muliana and byrne but the best fullbacks are about strike-rate and hitting the line- that what distinguises the great from the very good.

Its like people saying Ciaran mc donald was the best forward of the modern era despite having only one foot.

Strike rate is not what distinguishes a full back. Give me a aerially competent full back who tackles perfectly and has top notch positional sense every day of the week. attacking capabilities are a bonus but not preferred over defensive qualities.

It's a bit like teams that select half backs for their football ability, ignoring their inability to defend
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2009, 05:58:59 PM
Just look at his international strike rate compared to Muliana. I mean how deluded are we in this country? He's an excellent player without an outside break in my opinion.

That can't make you the worlds best. He's not suddenly going to get pace that he doesn't have. If he had Keith Earls pace he'd be the best because he'd be able to break the line. But he rarely ever hits the line for Ireland or Leinster. Granted he kicks better than muliana and byrne but the best fullbacks are about strike-rate and hitting the line- that what distinguises the great from the very good.

Its like people saying Ciaran mc donald was the best forward of the modern era despite having only one foot.

That's like saying Maradona can't be considered a great player because he had only one foot.  ::) 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 30, 2009, 06:25:18 PM
I was keeping an eye on Lee Byrne in the 6 nations this year and he dropped a reasonable amount of high ball for someone renowned as a catcher. Personally I'd give Kearney the slight edge over him in that department. Both players have savage kicks and are good tacklers.
Kearney seems nimbler on his feet to evade challenges.

However in attack Byrne's timing in coming into the line is uncannily good. He has the knack of coming through in a straight line and taking the ball at full tilt.

If Kearney improves his finishing, he'll be some class act. Girvan Dempsey was a great finishing full back for someone not seen as a star player.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Hardy on November 30, 2009, 07:47:16 PM
Kearney seems nimbler on his feet to evade challenges.
You can't be talking like that, BnM - speak da lingo: He has a fine outside break.

Quote
However in attack Byrne's timing in coming into the line is uncannily good.
He hits the line well?

Quote
He has the knack of coming through in a straight line and taking the ball at full tilt.
He runs good angles and purposeful lines.

Buck up your act there.

Anyway, I was wondering - with all the talk about the gaelic skills of Kearney and the others, why don't they catch the ball like footballers? Surely this should come naturally to them and would confer a huge (3 feet plus) advantage? I know it's an egg and not a ball, but the musclebound oafs (copyright Turk, I think) of Aussie Rules can manage it OK, so it shouldn't be too difficult for an evolved human being with opposable thumbs.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 30, 2009, 07:52:20 PM
Kearney seems nimbler on his feet to evade challenges.
You can't be talking like that, BnM - speak da lingo: He has a fine outside break.

Quote
However in attack Byrne's timing in coming into the line is uncannily good.
He hits the line well?

Quote
He has the knack of coming through in a straight line and taking the ball at full tilt.
He runs good angles and purposeful lines.

Buck up your act there.

Anyway, I was wondering - with all the talk about the gaelic skills of Kearney and the others, why don't they catch the ball like footballers? Surely this should come naturally to them and would confer a huge (3 feet plus) advantage? I know it's an egg and not a ball, but the musclebound oafs (copyright Turk, I think) of Aussie Rules can manage it OK, so it shouldn't be too difficult for an evolved human being with opposable thumbs.

Sure only Meath Rugby players would countenance doing something as mental as that :P
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Hardy on November 30, 2009, 07:59:13 PM
Exactly - Horgan against England in Croke Park is the sort of thing I was thinking of.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 30, 2009, 08:07:21 PM
Kearney seems nimbler on his feet to evade challenges.
You can't be talking like that, BnM - speak da lingo: He has a fine outside break.

Quote
However in attack Byrne's timing in coming into the line is uncannily good.
He hits the line well?

Quote
He has the knack of coming through in a straight line and taking the ball at full tilt.
He runs good angles and purposeful lines.

Buck up your act there.

Anyway, I was wondering - with all the talk about the gaelic skills of Kearney and the others, why don't they catch the ball like footballers? Surely this should come naturally to them and would confer a huge (3 feet plus) advantage? I know it's an egg and not a ball, but the musclebound oafs (copyright Turk, I think) of Aussie Rules can manage it OK, so it shouldn't be too difficult for an evolved human being with opposable thumbs.
Aye,
you'd be well advised not be sniping around the fringes and offloading your jargon around here.

I presume the overhead catch is riskier to execute with an egg and leaves the player more vulnerable to getting cleaved on returning to earth. The cradle style catch allows him to jump forwards with his knees up to protect himself and juggle if needs be.

The player is then free to recycle, run lines, go through the phases, attack the gain line and whatever other buzz phrases take his fancy!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2009, 08:09:07 PM
Exactly - Horgan against England in Croke Park is the sort of thing I was thinking of.

Horgan did it over a smaller winger.

Kearney has to land with the likes of Schalk Burger arriving at full tilt.

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Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on November 30, 2009, 08:15:42 PM
I presume the risk of a knock forward would make it a high risk strategy as well.  It would be grand to try it in the scenario that Horgan did it but I doubt that if a ball was coming down on top of Kearney's head straight in front of the post he would risk giving away a scrum for a knock forward or spilling it to the onrushing oppostion.  Game of percentages Hardy, that's what it is!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 30, 2009, 08:41:38 PM
One for the goys...

Tonight 9:35 RTE1

Last March Ireland ended a 61 year wait for Grand Slam glory and landed their first RBS 6 Nations. RTÉs cameras followed the drama unfolding from the low after the Autumn Internationals, to the revelations in Enfield and every second of action over the RBS 6 Nations tournament.

We hear from Paul OConnell, Brian ODriscoll, Tommy Bowe, Ronan OGara, and many more of the players on the concentration required and emotions they experienced on every step of their Grand Slam journey.

Declan Kidney and his backroom team disclose tactics and offer insight into the decisions and worries of management while Gerry Thornley and Conor OShea put this great achievement into perspective.

From the same team who made Reaching for Glory: Inside Irish Rugby 07, The Dubs and Brian Kerr documentaries Irelands Grand Slam journey 2009 offers never before seen on-field footage and reflective interviews with the Irish team & management
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Myles Na G. on November 30, 2009, 09:10:23 PM
Kearney seems nimbler on his feet to evade challenges.
You can't be talking like that, BnM - speak da lingo: He has a fine outside break.

Quote
However in attack Byrne's timing in coming into the line is uncannily good.
He hits the line well?

Quote
He has the knack of coming through in a straight line and taking the ball at full tilt.
He runs good angles and purposeful lines.

Buck up your act there.

Anyway, I was wondering - with all the talk about the gaelic skills of Kearney and the others, why don't they catch the ball like footballers? Surely this should come naturally to them and would confer a huge (3 feet plus) advantage? I know it's an egg and not a ball, but the musclebound oafs (copyright Turk, I think) of Aussie Rules can manage it OK, so it shouldn't be too difficult for an evolved human being with opposable thumbs.
Aye,
you'd be well advised not be sniping around the fringes and offloading your jargon around here.

I presume the overhead catch is riskier to execute with an egg and leaves the player more vulnerable to getting cleaved on returning to earth. The cradle style catch allows him to jump forwards with his knees up to protect himself and juggle if needs be.
The player is then free to recycle, run lines, go through the phases, attack the gain line and whatever other buzz phrases take his fancy!
Spot on. If you try and take the ball like a Gaelic player, you have to jump square on to the player coming at you, which means you're a soft target as you land. Catch it cradle style and you can take it with your shoulder facing the oncoming player. Less chance of getting absolutely cleaned, less chance of knocking on.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: INDIANA on November 30, 2009, 10:06:20 PM
Just look at his international strike rate compared to Muliana. I mean how deluded are we in this country? He's an excellent player without an outside break in my opinion.

That can't make you the worlds best. He's not suddenly going to get pace that he doesn't have. If he had Keith Earls pace he'd be the best because he'd be able to break the line. But he rarely ever hits the line for Ireland or Leinster. Granted he kicks better than muliana and byrne but the best fullbacks are about strike-rate and hitting the line- that what distinguises the great from the very good.

Its like people saying Ciaran mc donald was the best forward of the modern era despite having only one foot.

Strike rate is not what distinguishes a full back. Give me a aerially competent full back who tackles perfectly and has top notch positional sense every day of the week. attacking capabilities are a bonus but not preferred over defensive qualities.

It's a bit like teams that select half backs for their football ability, ignoring their inability to defend

Spoken like a true nordie ;D Defence!

He has to seriously up his strike rate. and until he does he ain't the best in the world. A full back with no strike rate is like an attacking midfild soccer player who doesn't score goals.

Muliana has 25 tries in 78 caps- ie 1 per 3 games.

Kearney has 3 in 16 caps.

Christian Cullen had 46 in 58 caps

Geordan Murphy has 19 in 60 caps- considering EOS never started him thats a strike rate and a half. Pity about his defence.

To be the best in the world you have to tick all the boxes. ie no weaknesses. For me Muliana is well ahead of everybody.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: screenexile on November 30, 2009, 10:43:43 PM
Good programme. Wish there was more behind the scenes coverage but Kidney would prefer to keep that stuff as private as possible I would imagine.

Grat team and some good memories looked at from a different perspective. . . Forgot how hairy it was during that Wales game though jees that was tense stuff!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: INDIANA on December 01, 2009, 02:38:02 AM
thought it was pure cack. Jesus I've seen better club team documentaries.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: mackers on December 01, 2009, 10:35:58 AM
ROG has went up in my opinion over the last day or so.....always came across as the sulky type with a high opinion of himself, but the shot of him smiling as Sexton landed another penalty on Saturday and last night's tongue-in-cheek comment about Wallace giving away the last minute penalty against Wales (comparing it to his mistake for the Lions) showed him in a different light. It's great to see these players not taking the thing too serious and being able to laugh at themselves.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Dinny Breen on December 01, 2009, 10:46:29 AM
Unlike the boards Mr Negative I ejnoyed the show, very NFL movies like. They all come across very well, never heard the Bull speak so much  :o
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: ludermor on December 01, 2009, 10:49:41 AM
Where was O'Callaghan? Not like him to be hiding when there is a camera about. Tommy Bowe is full of devilment!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on December 01, 2009, 11:28:20 AM
Unlike the boards Mr Negative I ejnoyed the show, very NFL movies like. They all come across very well, never heard the Bull speak so much  :o
He can speak?  :o :o
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: AbbeySider on December 01, 2009, 11:34:50 AM
I had to laugh hard when O Connell was remarking about Jamie Heaslip's finger celebration before he scored the try against Scotland.
O Connels was like "Ah he grounded the ball perfectly"
"luckily for him..." or something to that effect.

Got the impression that Heaslip would have been in trouble for the celebration if he didnt ground the ball...  :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: INDIANA on December 01, 2009, 11:35:47 AM
Unlike the boards Mr Negative I ejnoyed the show, very NFL movies like. They all come across very well, never heard the Bull speak so much  :o

Ah well better than being a cheerleader Dinny- I don't watch the Sound of Music too often- more of a Scarface man myself
 Any documentary that contains the contains sizeable portions of the endless bleatings of Gerry Thornley tends to turn me off watching it. Nothing like the programme in 2007 for me which was an excellent programme.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: DuffleKing on December 01, 2009, 11:50:48 AM

Yip- i dont like thornley either
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Dinny Breen on December 01, 2009, 11:57:00 AM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Indiana on one of his off-days


For the record I like Thornley  :o
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: mackers on December 01, 2009, 01:38:03 PM

Yip- i dont like thornley either
Sounds like Ryle Nugent's brother..........two t**sers!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on December 01, 2009, 02:40:10 PM
It was a decent enough watch but it wasn't as good as the version they had for the 2007 Six Nations. I suppose Kidney was never really going to allow such access to the dressing rooms though.

All the players came across particularly well but where were Donners and Flannery? The two biggest jokers on the team!

Funny story about Flannery and the night in Cardiff after the match - he was sh1tfaced standing outside the hotel and he started trying to smuggle a couple of hundred supporters into the team reception!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on December 01, 2009, 06:24:54 PM
Where was O'Callaghan? Not like him to be hiding when there is a camera about. Tommy Bowe is full of devilment!

Having a wash with greatness.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Celt_Man on December 16, 2009, 03:36:42 PM

Bowe cited for dangerous tackle


Ireland and Ospreys star Tommy Bowe has been cited for a dangerous tackle on Viadana wing Kaine Robertson in the Heineken Cup Pool 3 match last weekend.

The ERC have confirmed that Citing Commissioner for the match Iain Goodall has questioned the challenge and Bowe must now wait for a hearing to be set to decide his fate.

Under the regulations, a dangerous tackle can be seen as lifting a player from the ground and either dropping or driving the opposing player on his head and/or upper body first into the ground, whilst the player's feet are off the ground.

Anyone see this tackle???  Also heard that contract negioations with Ospreys aren't going the best - his contract is up at the end of this season - and that Munster and Leinster are both courting him!!


Bowe's future to be decided


Ireland winger Tommy Bowe has opened talks on a new contract with the Ospreys.

The 25-year-old is one of the few members of the Irish squad who is playing overseas and Munster and Leinster are leading the chase for his signature to bring him home.

Bowe's current contract with the Welsh side runs out at the end of this season and they are understood to be very keen to keep him at Liberty Stadium.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on December 23, 2009, 09:44:25 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/1223/leamyd.html (http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/1223/leamyd.html)

Serious knee injury blow for Leamy and Munster
Wednesday, 23 December 2009 13:14

Munster back-row Denis Leamy has been ruled out for 4-6 months with a serious knee injury.

The news is a severe blow for the Tipperary native, who was back to his very best form in Munster's epic 14-37 win over French Champions Perpignan in the Heineken Cup on Sunday.

The injury was sustained in the last play of the match, at the end of which Munster secured their crucial fourth try through New Zealand wing Doug Howlett.

Munster said that the 28-year-old, who has played with strapping on his right knee for most of 2009 having injured it playing against Llanelli in December last year, had a scan on Monday and was operated on in a Dublin clinic yesterday.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on December 23, 2009, 09:53:01 PM
You would have to feel sorry for Leamy, plays his best match of the season and then gets told his years over. He must be a unlucky fella considering the other injuries and setbacks in his career.

I suspect Ronan goes to 7 and Wallace to 8. At what point does Mick O'driscoll come into the frame should someone else gets injured? And if Ronan's injured does that New Zealander Williams(? i think) come into play 8 and return Wallace to flanker or is the another possible combination?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: orangeman on December 23, 2009, 10:13:51 PM
Does anyone know what the nature of the knee injury is ???
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Hoof Hearted on December 23, 2009, 11:42:47 PM
Does anyone know what the nature of the knee injury is ???

it's in his knee, and it's sore so it needs an operation. :)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on December 24, 2009, 12:54:17 AM
Does anyone know what the nature of the knee injury is ???

it's in his knee, and it's sore so it needs an operation. :)

I can tell you have read much on the subject, Doctor.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: screenexile on December 24, 2009, 10:22:05 AM
You would have to feel sorry for Leamy, plays his best match of the season and then gets told his years over. He must be a unlucky fella considering the other injuries and setbacks in his career.

I suspect Ronan goes to 7 and Wallace to 8. At what point does Mick O'driscoll come into the frame should someone else gets injured? And if Ronan's injured does that New Zealander Williams(? i think) come into play 8 and return Wallace to flanker or is the another possible combination?

Mick O'Driscoll comes in when DOC or POC get injured... other than that I'd agree with Ronan in and Wallace moving to 8.

Does anyone know what the nature of the knee injury is ???

I'd imagine it's an ACL injury which generally takes 6-8 months depending on speed of recovery.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on December 24, 2009, 03:54:39 PM
Does anyone know what the nature of the knee injury is ???

it's in his knee, and it's sore so it needs an operation. :)

I can tell you have read much on the subject, Doctor.

I can confirm that he studied his medicine very carefully in Edinburgh.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: trileacman on December 24, 2009, 04:44:58 PM
Does anyone know what the nature of the knee injury is ???

it's in his knee, and it's sore so it needs an operation. :)

I can tell you have read much on the subject, Doctor.

I can confirm that he studied his medicine very carefully in Edinburgh.

Are you his mother??  :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Hoof Hearted on December 24, 2009, 07:28:31 PM
leave mother muppet alone, he took good care of me that weekend when i took too much medicine. Thats what your elders do ! Not sure of his exact age, but he remembers being in Ballina on the monday night the last time Sam was there :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Gnevin on January 01, 2010, 02:21:29 PM
So here's the big one! As voted for by you, by hundreds of emails, here is the Planet Rugby XV of 2009 - replete with bench.

15 Rob Kearney - Leaving aside a peculiar performance against the Scarlets in the Heineken Cup right at year's end where he trebled this year's spilled high ball count, Kearney has been fantastic. A siege gun boot has helped him through ELV issues, while once given the licence and freedom to roam and attack on the Lions tour he showed just what he can do. High point of the year was that try in the Lions' second Test.

14 Tommy Bowe - It's not often you become a folk hero and have songs made and sung about you. But such was Bowe's form on the Lions tour (on and off the field), that he became the focal point of much of the affection of the touring hordes. All together now: Tommy...Tommy Bo-oooowwwwe!'

13 BOD - It is a vast injustice that, in the year when he sealed his 100th cap for his country by sailing through a gap for a last-minute equalising try and led the Lions once again to victory with every sinew, Brian O'Driscoll missed out on the IRB Player of the Year award. But some scant consolation may come from the fact that he is the captain of this year's team...

12 Jamie Roberts - One of those who skipped the 'Newbies' list and made it straight into the senior XV, Roberts deservedly took the Lion of the Tour' gong for his destructive running power in the middle of the park.

11 Bryan Habana - This one was a close one, with Sitiveni Sivivatu less than 20 votes behind. But - and once again, probably courtesy of the Lions tour and his team's success - Habana clinched it on account of his ability to be a little more reliable at the back.

10 Matt Giteau - While Australia have floundered, Giteau's sparkling form - with on glaring exception - never let up. At times early in the year, it occasionally seemed like Giteau taking on the entire opposition. But once Australia did gel in that final game against Wales, we saw just how devastating Giteau's maverick talents can be.

9 Fourie du Preez - Our Player of the Year (when there's no sentimentality taken into account anyway), Du Preez is a shining example of how to execute a game-plan down to it's final crossed 't', as well as adding to it along the way.

8 Jamie Heaslip - An old school rumbler of a number eight who eschews video analysis and dieting for a heck of a lot of hard yards and work, Heaslip had a fantastic year.

7 Heinrich Brüssow - Pushed up from the 'Newbies' list after Schalk Burger's moments of injury/idiocy* and thrust into the limelights of a Lions tour, Brüssow is now South Africa's top openside in his own right. There can be no greater compliment than this fact: Brüssow so eclipsed Richie McCaw this year that the Kiwi did not get enough votes to even feature on the bench!

* - delete as applicable

6 Rocky Elsom - How many people can say they won a continental championship, headed to the other side of the world and became captain of a top eight country, all within a year? Rocky Elsom can...

5 Victor Matfield - The vote for second-row was a close-run thing between all the people vying for a spot to partner a man who is surely now deeply ensconced in South African rugby folklore.

4 Bakkies Botha - That race to partner Victor Matfield mentioned above? Bakkies won it by eight votes, the tightest call of the entire team.

3 Martin Castrogiovanni - Italy and Leicester's cornerstone had a comparatively quiet year, but his was the performance that helped dismantle an All Black scrum in Milan in November.

2 Bismarck du Plessis - Light years ahead of all others in this position, Du Plessis had hooker after hooker come his way and leave with tails between legs. And a couple of tighthead props for that matter. And we've not yetmentioned his line-out throwing.

1 Gethin Jenkins - The world's most athletic prop, with the ability to play either side of the scrum if need be. Could you ask for any more? Indicative of Jenkins' success was the number of South Africans who gave him the nod ahead of their very own 'Beast'.

The Bench - These were the players in their respective positions who garnered the second-highest number of votes - but for Smit, Robinson and Parisse, it was also a case of tallying up the total votes from the two positions people had voted them in for, which allowed us scope to factor in a degree of versatility to our pine-riders.

16 John Smit
17 Benn Robinson
18 Paul O'Connell
19 Sergio Parisse
20 Will Genia
21 Morne Steyn
22 Sitiveni Sivivatu

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16016_5813357,00.html

4 Irish starters. Great year
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Celt_Man on January 06, 2010, 12:56:23 PM

O'Driscoll named World Player of the Decade

Wednesday, 6 January 2010 12:16

Ireland captain Brian O'Driscoll has been voted as Rugby World magazine's player of the decade.

The Leinster centre announced his arrival on the world stage in 2000 with a stunning hat-trick in Ireland's Six Nations victory over France in Paris.

O'Driscoll finished the decade captaining Ireland to their first Grand Slam in 61 years and playing an instrumental role in Leinster's long-awaited Heineken Cup triumph.

A three-time nominee for the International Rugby Board's world player of the year, O'Driscoll played on three Lions tours, including one as captain.

Rugby World team of the decade:

M Muliana (New Zealand); J Robinson (England), B O'Driscoll (Ireland), M Giteau (Australia), S Williams (Wales); D Carter (New Zealand), A Pichot (Argentina); G Jenkins (Wales), J Smit (South Africa), C Hayman (New Zealand), M Johnson (England, capt), V Matfield (South Africa), R Hill (England), R McCaw (New Zealand), S Parisse (Italy).

Replacements: R Roncero (Argentina), M Ledesma (Argentina), S Marconnet (France), JM Fernandez Lobbe (Argentina), F Du Preez (South Africa), J Wilkinson (England), Y Jauzion (France), JM Hernandez (Argentina).

Delighted to see O'Driscoll getting an "award" like this...  Also great to see Parisse being recognised for all his efforts, sometimes on his own, for Italy
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: muppet on January 06, 2010, 04:50:04 PM

O'Driscoll named World Player of the Decade

Wednesday, 6 January 2010 12:16

Ireland captain Brian O'Driscoll has been voted as Rugby World magazine's player of the decade.

The Leinster centre announced his arrival on the world stage in 2000 with a stunning hat-trick in Ireland's Six Nations victory over France in Paris.

O'Driscoll finished the decade captaining Ireland to their first Grand Slam in 61 years and playing an instrumental role in Leinster's long-awaited Heineken Cup triumph.

A three-time nominee for the International Rugby Board's world player of the year, O'Driscoll played on three Lions tours, including one as captain.

Rugby World team of the decade:

M Muliana (New Zealand); J Robinson (England), B O'Driscoll (Ireland), M Giteau (Australia), S Williams (Wales); D Carter (New Zealand), A Pichot (Argentina); G Jenkins (Wales), J Smit (South Africa), C Hayman (New Zealand), M Johnson (England, capt), V Matfield (South Africa), R Hill (England), R McCaw (New Zealand), S Parisse (Italy).

Replacements: R Roncero (Argentina), M Ledesma (Argentina), S Marconnet (France), JM Fernandez Lobbe (Argentina), F Du Preez (South Africa), J Wilkinson (England), Y Jauzion (France), JM Hernandez (Argentina).

Delighted to see O'Driscoll getting an "award" like this...  Also great to see Parisse being recognised for all his efforts, sometimes on his own, for Italy

Hard to argue with any of that. O'Connell was up against Matfield and Johnson both World Cup winners while the only other real candidate from these shores would have been Keith Wood who again was beaten a WC winner. Though on his day I would have Wood ahead of Smit.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Declan on January 06, 2010, 04:54:19 PM
Heard Eamon Keane interviewing O'Driscoll's dad on Newstalk at lunchtime - He came across as some character and said although Brian had put the Kiwis assault on him behind him he would never forget the cover up.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: fingerbob on January 06, 2010, 05:55:43 PM
More argentinians than kiwis on the team.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland 15-10 South Africa
Post by: Capt Pat on January 06, 2010, 07:04:33 PM
Keith Wood is maybe a pick for the previous decade, Smit is a very good player and the Captain of South Afirca but is not in Woods league. There are other hookers that could have got that spot. I would have gone for the Argentine hooker ahead of Smit, but Wood ahead of both.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: tyroneboi on January 19, 2010, 06:00:26 PM
Rory Best is named in Ireland's Six Nations squad


Ulster hooker Rory Best has been named in Ireland's extended 44-man squad for the RBS Six Nations Championship.

Best has not played this season because of a serious neck injury but has resumed contact training after making good progress in his rehabilitation.

Prop Marcus Horan also returns to the panel after his lengthy injury layoff.

The squad contains nine uncapped players, with Ulster pair Dan Tuohy and Declan Fitzpatrick the newest members to the squad for this season.

The other uncapped men are Leinster's Fergus McFadden, Kevin McLaughlin, Devin Toner and John Fogarty, Leicester wing Johne Murphy, Connacht prop Brett Wilkinson and Ulster number eight Chris Henry.

Shane Jennings is named in the squad after his return to playing.

Best was not expected to return to action until after the Six Nations series but may now make a comeback sooner than anticipated.

Munster prop Horan returns, having missed out on the autumn internationals after undergoing a routine medical procedure for a minor heart ailment.

The loosehead has not played for his province since the Heineken Cup win over Treviso in October but played 80 minutes for Shannon in their All-Ireland League match against Dolphin on Saturday.

Ireland are without injured duo Luke Fitzgerald and Denis Leamy.

   
The aim is to increase the competitiveness that we need for the Italy game

Declan Kidney

Ireland begin their campaign with a home game against Italy at Croke Park on Saturday 6 February.

Ireland A will play two international games in quick succession, against England Saxons on 31 January and Scotland A at Ravenhill on 5 February.

Irish coach Declan Kidney said his main consideration was "the opening game against Italy, followed by the A games and further down the line the Rugby World Cup".

"Building a squad has always been a priority for us and the work done during the first half of the season means there is a little more experience accumulated in the squad than we had a couple of months ago.

"While there were new players who gained vital experience during the autumn series, the goal is to keep that experience ticking over with all the players who need international level game time.

"The aim is to increase the competitiveness that we need for the Italy game.

"The provinces have all been in good form, making selection even more difficult, but we will need that for the big challenges that are ahead for the group over the next couple of weeks.

"The focus is very much on our game against Italy in a fortnight's time and we are preparing for that first challenge," said Kidney.

Ireland squad: Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Tom Court (Malone/Ulster), Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster), Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster), Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster), John Hayes (Bruff/Munster), Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary's College/Leinster), Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster), Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster), Kevin McLaughlin (UCD/Leinster), Johne Murphy (Leicester), Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster), Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster), Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) , Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster), Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster), Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster), Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster), Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster), Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster), Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster), Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht).
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on January 19, 2010, 09:28:10 PM
Ian Humphreys is a big omission. I can't really understand the need to pick four specialist scrum-halves, but only two specilaist fly-halves. If either fly-half gets hurt, surely it would be better (in a 44 man squad!) to have a playmaker ready to come into the matchday squad who is has worked with all the calls, routines and tactics.

The suspicious Ulster man in me would speculate that the inclusion of 4 scrum-halves is a wee arm around the shoulders of Stringer in case he feels left out, and the absence of fly-half cover is a big arm around sensitive Ronan's shoulders.


Good to see so many youngsters breaking into the main squad though, even if they'll nearly all be playing A rugby this season.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on January 19, 2010, 10:32:38 PM
I wish they would at least divide that big long list of names into backs and forwards. In fact I would expect them to break it down by position.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on January 19, 2010, 10:33:43 PM
Ian Humphreys is a big omission. I can't really understand the need to pick four specialist scrum-halves, but only two specilaist fly-halves. If either fly-half gets hurt, surely it would be better (in a 44 man squad!) to have a playmaker ready to come into the matchday squad who is has worked with all the calls, routines and tactics.

The suspicious Ulster man in me would speculate that the inclusion of 4 scrum-halves is a wee arm around the shoulders of Stringer in case he feels left out, and the absence of fly-half cover is a big arm around sensitive Ronan's shoulders.


Good to see so many youngsters breaking into the main squad though, even if they'll nearly all be playing A rugby this season.

Those 2 are very delicate and need all the encouragement they can get.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on January 19, 2010, 10:40:31 PM
Quote
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary's College/Leinster),  Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) , Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

Have had their day or just not good enough - tackle bag holders.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on January 19, 2010, 10:49:44 PM
Without Further ado

Ireland squad: Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Tom Court (Malone/Ulster), Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster), Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster), Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster), John Hayes (Bruff/Munster), Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary's College/Leinster), Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster), Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster), Kevin McLaughlin (UCD/Leinster), Johne Murphy (Leicester), Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster), Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster), Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) , Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster), Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster), Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster), Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster), Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster), Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster), Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster), Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht).

Fullback - Kearney, Dennis Hurley

Utility back - Paddy Wallace

Wing - Bowe, Earls, Horgan,Murphy, Dowling

Centre - O'Driscoll, Darcy, Trimble, Fergus McFadden

Outhalf - O'Gara, Sexton

Scrum half - O'Leary, Reddan, Stringer, Boss

Number -  8 Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry

Openside - Dave Wallace, Jennings, O'Brien

Blindside - Ferris, McLaughlin , D Ryan

Second Row - O'Callagahan. O'Connell. Toner, Cullen, dan Touhy,

Tight head - Hayes, Buckley, Court, Ross

Hooker - Flannery, Fogarty, Cronin, Best

Loose head - Healy, Horan, Brett Wilkinson, Declan Fitzpatrick

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on January 19, 2010, 10:57:36 PM
Quote
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary's College/Leinster),  Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) , Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

Have had their day or just not good enough - tackle bag holders.

Add Paddy Wallace.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on January 19, 2010, 11:12:36 PM
Dinny - I can't believe you included Shane Jennings in your otherwise acceptable list of expendables. Granted you would watch a lot more Leinster than I would, but almost every time I've seen him play he has been worth watching. Anything in particular you don't like about his game?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on January 19, 2010, 11:30:39 PM
Quote
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary's College/Leinster),  Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) , Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

Have had their day or just not good enough - tackle bag holders.

Add Paddy Wallace.

Not a particular fan of his but he's the no.1 partner for BOD as far as Kidney is concerned and he's the 3rd choice out half should Sexton or O'Gara. . . certainly more than a tackle bag holder!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on January 20, 2010, 02:01:08 AM
Dinny - I can't believe you included Shane Jennings in your otherwise acceptable list of expendables. Granted you would watch a lot more Leinster than I would, but almost every time I've seen him play he has been worth watching. Anything in particular you don't like about his game?

Jennings is a liability. Gives away far too many penalties. O'Brien is the future and he'll more than likely be Ireland's 7 come the next RWC.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2010, 07:40:50 AM
Dinny - I can't believe you included Shane Jennings in your otherwise acceptable list of expendables. Granted you would watch a lot more Leinster than I would, but almost every time I've seen him play he has been worth watching. Anything in particular you don't like about his game?

DH summed it up there more or less. He's very committed but I don't think he has great rugby intelligence for a 7 and while he does a reasonable/good job for Leinster he's not in my opinion International class, whereas the raw potential in O'Brien is frightening, O'Brien and Ferris is the same backrow would put the fear of god into a lot of teams.

Wallace is a nice contrast to D'arcy, he's there because he can distribute, himself and O'Gara don't work to well together but he compliments Sexton nicely I think.

One to watch is Kevin McLaughlin, serious athlete and very talented.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on January 20, 2010, 08:56:45 AM
Dinny - I can't believe you included Shane Jennings in your otherwise acceptable list of expendables. Granted you would watch a lot more Leinster than I would, but almost every time I've seen him play he has been worth watching. Anything in particular you don't like about his game?

Jennings is a liability. Gives away far too many penalties.
It seems to be occupational hazard for flankers who go digging for the ball. Jennings, Best and O'Concrete always gave away a good quota of penalties. Makes you realise what a priceless asset McCaw is for being able to rip, root and spoil and get away with it.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: ludermor on January 20, 2010, 08:58:45 AM
And Brussow seems to have taken that art to a different level this year.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: ludermor on January 20, 2010, 01:12:35 PM
Quote
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary's College/Leinster),  Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) , Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

Have had their day or just not good enough - tackle bag holders.
Agree with the vast majority of them but just a couple of comments.
Cullen - who would you have as 2 first choice back up to to the incumbents?
Horan- While i have no problem with Healy taking over No1 i would like to have horan as back up for the next year or two.
Horgan - Have been very impressed with him this year, wouldnt mind him on the fringes if any injuries come up. Who would you have as back up to the wings?

There is some serious competion coming up in the back row places ( in pretty much all the provinces) which is great news  for the future.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on January 20, 2010, 02:41:55 PM
Quote
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary's College/Leinster),  Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) , Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

Have had their day or just not good enough - tackle bag holders.

Horgan is playing beter than earls and should start. Fogarty could yet be useful but I understand what your saying and who else would you have in place of Cullen, sound cover, well liked and a good leader. Horan is also in that bracket, sound cover.

Finally the absence of eternal failure Trimble makes a mockery of your list as he is absolute p***.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on January 20, 2010, 03:49:49 PM
Tony Buckley is a huge disappointment. He just hasn't developed. On another note, I think it's funny to read David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), etc etc. I'd say some of these lads wouldn't even remember the last time they played for their club :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: ludermor on January 20, 2010, 04:34:08 PM
I was thinking the same thing when i read that Horan played with his club at the weekend ( Shannon?). I wonder how many of the players he would have known? Would they much of a connection with the clubs these days.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2010, 04:47:26 PM
Quote
Cullen - who would you have as 2 first choice back up to to the incumbents?

The odds of both being injured are very low but Donnacha Ryan, Devin Toner and Dan Touhy are the future and need to be developed. Toner will be beast, about 5/6 years away from his prime. If both incumbents were injured I would bring in Cullen for his experience alone.

Quote
Horan- While i have no problem with Healy taking over No1 i would like to have horan as back up for the next year or two.

I'll be honest be honest never a fan, I think he has a poor attitude, a poor work-rate and is an ok scrummager. Healy and Court are just better now.

Quote
Horgan - Have been very impressed with him this year, wouldnt mind him on the fringes if any injuries come up. Who would you have as back up to the wings?

He's having golden winter but he's had his time. Trimble, Hurley, Carr, Murphy all much younger and hungrier

Quote
Finally the absence of eternal failure Trimble makes a mockery of your list as he is absolute p***.

Really, have you seen him play this year?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on January 20, 2010, 04:59:37 PM
Quote
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary's College/Leinster),  Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) , Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

Have had their day or just not good enough - tackle bag holders.

Right Kidney is picking on form and in fairness to Boss he is playing well (scored a great try and was MOTM on Friday)

Buckley - point taken,

Cullen is playing great stuff with Leinster week in week and has been since he came back from his stint with Leicester,

Dowling - failed to make the Heinken Cup match day squad before Christmas but he is most likely named in the 44 man squad as he is probably a cert for a start for the A's.

John Fogerty - worth his place, has been solid for Leinster all season long

Horan - in fairness to Healy he really has staked a claim for the No. 1 jersey but it's not his yet, Horan still derserves his place and will see a start in the 6 nations

Horgan - pure class and has shown that big time in the past few months, it's gonna take some big performers to stop him from making the team

Jennings - Don't forget that he was having a great start to the season before his wee "break", very experienced player useful addition to any squad

O'Driscoll - hasn't seen much time this season and would be surprised if he was the 3rd choice second row in front of Cullen but he will be seen as a big figure and leader in the A dressing room hence he is in the squad from the start rather than calling him in later on

Stringer - Don't forget that match winning break against Scotland last year... enough said
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on January 20, 2010, 05:11:01 PM
Realistically not one of those players should start only Horan can make a case,if any of those other players start in the 6 Nations I'll be shocked and will run around naked on the board  ;)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: tyroneboi on January 20, 2010, 05:45:36 PM
Seen a fair bit of Northampton this season and thought Roger Wilson and Neil Best would have been worth a place in the squad? Up in Ulster have been impressed with Ian Humphreys and Darren Cave and surprised they weren't named in a squad of that size.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: ludermor on January 20, 2010, 06:43:13 PM
Fair enough points Dinny. Leinster have some serious talent coming thorugh in the pack alright and if Toner fulfills his potential he will be some operator.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on January 20, 2010, 07:09:47 PM
Stringer - Don't forget that match winning break against Scotland last year... enough said
Nothing unusual sure. He makes a break like that every year!  ;)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on January 27, 2010, 09:38:54 PM
IRELAND 'A' Squad (v England Saxons, Recreation Ground, Sunday, January 31, kick-off 2pm):

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)
John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster)
Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster)
Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Keith Matthews (Buccaneers/Connacht)
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers)
Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)

Strong squad. Match is live on Sky Sports 2.

Tony Buckley is a huge disappointment. He just hasn't developed.

Its a pity nobody got a hold of Buckley a few years ago and showed him how to scrummage. His size and strength would be invaluable at the ruck and he was always a fairly decent ball-carrier (remember the hand-off on Simon Shaw in Coventry a few years ago!). Being behind the Bull at Munster hasn't helped. Anytime he seemed to get a run of games it was at loose-head and he is more comfortable on the other side. Had he gone to Bath three or four years ago (like had been arranged) I've no doubt we'd have made an international prop out of him. Even if he'd been shipped off to Connacht for a season or two in his early twenties like Jerry Flannery, it would have done him the world of good. He's 29 now though and it looks like he'll never really make the impact that he could have.

Tight-head could be a big problem for Ireland if the Bull was ever to pick up an injury. Court is playing all his rugby at loose-head with BJ Botha around and Mike Ross is well down the pecking order at Leinster. For me, Timmy Ryan could well be the long-term solution. He is getting some matches at Toulon and I'm surprised he isn't in the Ireland setup yet. I think he'll go back to Munster in a year or two when the Bull decides to commit himself full time to the farming!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: INDIANA on February 02, 2010, 09:59:14 AM
Rumour has - Ferris, Horan and Best all out.

ROG ahead of Sexton
Trimble ahead of Earls
Mc laughlin instead of Ferris

Ferris is defintely out along with Horan and Best. ROG and Trimble are only rumours. Mc laughlin is almost certain to start .
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on February 02, 2010, 10:21:36 AM
From the BBC website.  "Wolfhounds" squad for match on Fri

Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster), Nigel Brady (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster), Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster), Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster), Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster), Shane Jennings (St Mary's College/Leinster), Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht). Keith Matthews (Buccaneers/Connacht), Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster), Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers), Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster), Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster), Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster) Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on February 02, 2010, 12:34:54 PM
Rumour has - Ferris, Horan and Best all out.

ROG ahead of Sexton
Trimble ahead of Earls
Mc laughlin instead of Ferris

Ferris is defintely out along with Horan and Best. ROG and Trimble are only rumours. Mc laughlin is almost certain to start .

Fairly surprising if this is true. I'd have thought Sexton would have started on Saturday with ROG coming back in for Paris next weekend. Trimble/Earls was always a 50/50 call. I'd have had Earls but no complaints with Trimble. Again I'd have thought O'Brien would have been next in line in the backrow but perhaps Deccie thinks he is too similar to Wallace. McLoughlin is probably the nearest we have to Ferris with Leamy injured at the moment.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: INDIANA on February 02, 2010, 12:57:00 PM
A worse one DH is Wallace covering the bench and Sexton not even on it. Hope to christ thats bollox. Pretty sure Mc laughlin is in- that comes from someone who was watching the training. The rest we'll see in 30 mins.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: GaillimhIarthair on February 02, 2010, 01:40:51 PM
A worse one DH is Wallace covering the bench and Sexton not even on it. Hope to christ thats bollox. Pretty sure Mc laughlin is in- that comes from someone who was watching the training. The rest we'll see in 30 mins.
Sexton is injured apparently.  Rog to start with Wallace on the bench I would imagine.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: INDIANA on February 02, 2010, 01:42:12 PM
Kevin McLaughlin is the one new cap named in the Ireland team to play Italy this Saturday in Croke Park. 
The 25 year old Leinster player will start his first international alongside David Wallace and Jamie Heaslip in the Ireland backrow in the opening game of the 2010 RBS 6 Nations Championship.

Andrew Trimble returns to the Ireland team after winning his last cap against England in Twickenham in March 2008 and he is named on the left wing.

Gordon D'Arcy renews his centre partnership with Brian O'Driscoll while Ronan O'Gara will earn his 94th cap, partnering Tomas O'Leary.

Jerry Flannery starts at hooker alongside John Hayes and Cian Healy while Rory Best is named in the replacements following his recovery from injury.

IRELAND Team & Replacements (v Italy, RBS 6 Nations Championship, Croke Park, Saturday February 6th, 2:30 p.m):

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
19 - Sean O’Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
22 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)

Unavailable due to injury:
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Declan on February 02, 2010, 01:43:07 PM
O'Gara to pull the strings

Declan Kidney has pulled a few surprises out of his managerial cap with his team selection to face Italy in the Six Nations opener at Croke Park On Saturday. The manager has opted for the experience of Ronan O’Gara at outhalf instead of Jonathan Sexton, for whom there isn’t even a place on the bench.
Cover for the Munster man comes in the shape of Paddy Wallace, while the Ulster player's provincial team-mate Andrew Trimble has been preferred to Keith Earls on the left wing.

As expected, Stephen Ferris misses out through injury and it's Leinster’s Kevin McLaughlin who has been called in for his first cap instead of Leinster team-mate Seán O'Brien, who makes the bench.

Why Sexton has not even made the 22, after impressing hugely in the autumn and for Leinster since, is not yet clear. Form is unlikely to be the issue, so it may be the case that the St Mary’s man has picked up an injury.

In the frontrow, Cian Healy gets the nod ahead of Marcus Horan, while Jerry Flannery has edged out Rory Best for the contentious hooker berth. John Hayes joins them.

The engine room as it were, is predictably comprised of Munster duo Paul O’Connell and Donncha O’Callaghan, while McLaughlin is joined in the backrow by number eight Jamie Heaslip and openside David Wallace.

Captain Brian O’Driscoll is back in tandem with Gordon D’Arcy in the centre and Rob Kearney is named at fullback.

Ireland (v Italy): Kearney; Bowe, O’Driscoll (capt), D’Arcy, Trimble; O’Gara, O’Leary; Healy, Flannery, Hayes; O’Callaghan, O’Connell, McLaughlin, D Wallace, Heaslip. Replacements : Best, Court, Cullen, O'Brien, Reddan, Wallace, Earls.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 02, 2010, 01:58:59 PM
Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: ha ha derry on February 02, 2010, 02:06:47 PM
Paddy Wallace is a failed experiment.
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.
Shane Horgan will feel aggrieved v Trimble. Trimble is good in attack but a poor defender.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: J OGorman on February 02, 2010, 02:07:40 PM
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

the Italians as always will be ferocious up front, but the current grand inning slam pack will be weaker than Scotland and Englands for example? Hows that?

Squad looks strong with competition for places everywhere..should be a mighty championship
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 02, 2010, 02:42:12 PM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 02, 2010, 02:42:39 PM
I know Ferris is injured but good to see McLaughlin getting a start, very much deserved after some great performances for Leinster.... 

I would expect Flannery and Best to get in around a half each - game time both badly need.  Also it would be good for Court to get on the field for at least 20 minutes - a full half would be better though, I'm sure the rest would stand to the Bull next week in the French game
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 02, 2010, 02:43:30 PM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

Didn't see the game but one of the lads did and said the same.  He was very disappointed with Stringer
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 02, 2010, 02:46:52 PM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

Didn't see the game but one of the lads did and said the same.  He was very disappointed with Stringer

He was shockingly bad in fairness. He'll be doing well to even make the bench for Ireland A from now on.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 02, 2010, 02:48:42 PM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

Didn't see the game but one of the lads did and said the same.  He was very disappointed with Stringer

He was shockingly bad in fairness. He'll be doing well to even make the bench for Ireland A from now on.

And in fairness Boss is back showing some damn good form again... he was very good against Bath and Edinburgh in the 'Ken Cup
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: ha ha derry on February 02, 2010, 03:48:38 PM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

Who was playing outside him ?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 02, 2010, 04:48:57 PM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

Who was playing outside him ?

Paddy Wallace!

Have to say I'm no great fan but Kidney likes him and he is probably just shading it as the 3rd best Out Half (And Second best no. 12 Behind D'Arcy) we have at the minute ahead of Keatley and slightly ahead of Humphreys.

However I would expect Humphreys to push on this season and next to get himself in the squad for the World Cup with Paddy Wallace being a permanent backup at Centre.

As for Stringer well no he's just not up to it anymore. He was useful in his day but he's not getting any regular game time with Munster and he has fallen well behind O'Leary, Reddan and Boss in the pecking order. In saying that I've seen Reddan a couple of times recently and I haven't been that impressed. He needs to get his act together as on form he could overtake O'Leary and he will be vital to Leinster's hopes of retaining the Heineken!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 02, 2010, 04:52:23 PM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

Who was playing outside him ?

He could have had Dan Carter outside him and it wouldn't have mattered as his passes were going all over the shop. High, low, right, left and occasionly straight.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on February 02, 2010, 05:09:58 PM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

Who was playing outside him ?

Paddy Wallace!

Have to say I'm no great fan but Kidney likes him and he is probably just shading it as the 3rd best Out Half (And Second best no. 12 Behind D'Arcy) we have at the minute ahead of Keatley and slightly ahead of Humphreys.

However I would expect Humphreys to push on this season and next to get himself in the squad for the World Cup with Paddy Wallace being a permanent backup at Centre.

As for Stringer well no he's just not up to it anymore. He was useful in his day but he's not getting any regular game time with Munster and he has fallen well behind O'Leary, Reddan and Boss in the pecking order. In saying that I've seen Reddan a couple of times recently and I haven't been that impressed. He needs to get his act together as on form he could overtake O'Leary and he will be vital to Leinster's hopes of retaining the Heineken!

I don't think Humphries will ever be too involved in the Ireland set-up under Kidney. He just doesn't seem to fancy him for whatever reason. O'Gara will still be around by the time the World Cup comes around. I'd say Keatley will probably go to Munster in a year or two to be groomed as his replacement. Warwick seems at home at full-back although hopefully Felix Jones can challenge him in the next few years.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 02, 2010, 05:33:12 PM
Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!
Trimble shouldn't play. It was a Horgan/Earls toss up with Earls possibly shading it. Trimbles try was against bath. He's a stupid defender as opposed to a bad one and an average attacker with little pace. Watch Trimble's try on Youtube, Ulster's tight-head catches up with him at the end.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 02, 2010, 06:28:26 PM
It looks a sensible selection. Form gets rewarded by Kidney, with EOS it was often harder to get off the team than on it.
I don't believe Trimble and McLaughlin were even on the bench for the big November internationals, but they are worth their places having played well since.

The front row is in for a huge test. Flannery and Best are both recovering from lay offs. Hayes and Healy could be going through the reverse gears in the scrum.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: tyroneboi on February 02, 2010, 06:46:29 PM
Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!
Trimble shouldn't play. It was a Horgan/Earls toss up with Earls possibly shading it. Trimbles try was against bath. He's a stupid defender as opposed to a bad one and an average attacker with little pace. Watch Trimble's try on Youtube, Ulster's tight-head catches up with him at the end.

Does he bollix catch up with Trimble. Trimble wasn't going flat out as he got into Baths half because he was facing 2 or 3 defenders and then he turned on the gas towards the end to go round them plus Joe Mattock the Bath full back is no slouch either.

Trimble deserves to be on the starting line up though i would say it was close between him and Horgan. Haven't been impressed by Earls since the Autumn internationals and he has played most of his rugby in the centre this season anyway. Disappointed Ferris and Sexton weren't fit but should still have far too much for Italy on Saturday. Hopefully leaving the two lads out is just precautionary for the trip to Paris the following weekend.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: charlie stubbs on February 02, 2010, 07:29:42 PM
gal in work selling x2 tickets 4 cusack if any1 interested mail me
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 02, 2010, 07:36:53 PM


I can't wait for the Six Nations to begin



John Beattie


Another of my favourite rugby jokes - and these things happened in the olden days on Lions tours. Lions captain to referee: "Sir, who's put-in is it at the scrum?" Referee: "Ours."

But that's another diversion and this is your blog. Yeeeha, this time of year gives me one more delicious reason to live because the Six Nations tournament is here. Ever since I can remember, this time of year means watching the world's best tournament.

You have to understand that my generation stood on terraces accepting cans of beer from Welshmen who made it a week's trip to go to Murrayfield, or taking wine from smoky Frenchmen who smiled and laughed as their team kicked ours off the park.

But who is going to win? Come on, tell me who you think is going to win.

According to the International Rugby Board website, England has more than two million registered rugby players, France has a quarter of a million, Ireland 150,000, Italy 60,000, Wales 46,000, and Scotland 32,000. England have nearly four times as many rugby players as the rest of the Six Nations teams added together!

England first. If the team clicks, someone is going to get hammered. I don't understand why the current English side plays the ball so deep to the stand-off from broken play as they seem to go backwards. That said, I don't see a weakness in set piece, nor in attack.


My outsider's view is that skipper Steve Borthwick is a class act while, with Jonny Wilkinson and Martin Johnson around in albeit differing capacities, they have lots of experience. Plus, they have been training in Portugal, something Scotland, for instance, could never afford.

England are my tip to be joint winners this year, but only if they produce the badness that Johnson had as a player. And they have to overcome trips to Italy, Scotland and France.

Talking of France, you never know which team is going to turn up. However, they only have to travel to Scotland and Wales, so I think they will share the championship with England. The French have become predictable in how they play, though, with a search to take the ball right to each touchline copying English club rugby and Welsh international rugby.

You cannot overestimate the effect that Andy Robinson is having on Scotland. There are lots of options at wing - Evans, Lamonts and Daniellis - but some decisions to be made at back row and stand-off. England and France at home means it might just be mid-table.

I want Wales to do well. A real rugby country with a penchant for self-destruction and at times a lack of real grunt up front - but such a beautiful attacking game, using runners in wide channels. They have to go to Ireland and England.

Ireland have the experience of Brian O'Driscoll, the guile of Declan Kidney and enough gumption to beat anyone on their day - hardly a weak link - though they are starting to get a bit arrogant with their Grand Slam.

And the Italians? Rome is a horrible place to play. They even sold out the San Siro to play the All Blacks. One day Italian rugby will overtake Scottish and Welsh rugby, of that I am convinced. But not yet.

So it's England, France, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy.

What do you think and what is your best Five or Six Nations memory?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/johnbeattie/2010/01/i_cant_wait_for_the_six_nation.html


Anyone else think that Ireland are getting arrogant after last year or like me do you think John is talking out of his hole?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Onlooker on February 02, 2010, 08:23:14 PM
I would not argue with him about the arrogant bit, but I find it hard to believe that there are 150,000 rugby players in Ireland and only 46,000 in Wales.  If those figures are correct, our record against Wales is very poor.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 02, 2010, 08:46:04 PM
I would not argue with him about the arrogant bit, but I find it hard to believe that there are 150,000 rugby players in Ireland and only 46,000 in Wales.  If those figures are correct, our record against Wales is very poor.

Those figures are not correct. Numbers from 2007.

Ireland

    * Adult Male Players: 21740
    * Women Players: 1756
    * Number of Secondary Schools Players: 23586
    * Number of Youth Players: 12472
    * Number of Mini Rugby Players: 10967
    * Primary School: 32209
    * TOTAL PLAYERS: 100974

So a 100,000 players but that's including teens, kids, women, etc. That was three years ago so numbers are probably a bit different by now. On the IRB website the big difference seems to be in children playing the game. 60,600 children in Ireland and 10,000 in Wales. Not sure how reliable those numbers are to be honest. In fairness though Ireland have fairly consistently got the better of Wales for the past 30 years. It was before that really when the Welsh had the upper hand.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 02, 2010, 09:20:01 PM
what examples of arrogance were there ? I didnt think they were too bad to be honest
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 02, 2010, 09:21:39 PM
Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!
Trimble shouldn't play. It was a Horgan/Earls toss up with Earls possibly shading it. Trimbles try was against bath. He's a stupid defender as opposed to a bad one and an average attacker with little pace.
[/i]

 ::)You are having a laugh I take it.

As with all of Ireland's game's last year it will be a victory but a poor game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Onlooker on February 02, 2010, 09:57:09 PM
what examples of arrogance were there ? I didnt think they were too bad to be honest
If you were living in Munster and had to listen to the Bandwagoners here talking about the "liginds" of Munster Rugby, you would know where I was coming from.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 02, 2010, 10:07:49 PM
i suppose, it's like me working in Tyrone !
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 02, 2010, 11:21:07 PM
Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!
Trimble shouldn't play. It was a Horgan/Earls toss up with Earls possibly shading it. Trimbles try was against bath. He's a stupid defender as opposed to a bad one and an average attacker with little pace.
[/i]

 ::)You are having a laugh I take it.

As with all of Ireland's game's last year it will be a victory but a poor game.
No I'm not. If you don't believe me wait for the match on Saturday or more likely the match in Paris to see him being exploited.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Onlooker on February 03, 2010, 10:53:09 AM
i suppose, it's like me working in Tyrone !
The big difference is that I am from Munster!!.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: ha ha derry on February 03, 2010, 11:04:49 AM
Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

 
Who was playing outside him ?

Paddy Wallace!

Have to say I'm no great fan but Kidney likes him and he is probably just shading it as the 3rd best Out Half (And Second best no. 12 Behind D'Arcy) we have at the minute ahead of Keatley and slightly ahead of Humphreys.

However I would expect Humphreys to push on this season and next to get himself in the squad for the World Cup with Paddy Wallace being a permanent backup at Centre.

As for Stringer well no he's just not up to it anymore. He was useful in his day but he's not getting any regular game time with Munster and he has fallen well behind O'Leary, Reddan and Boss in the pecking order. In saying that I've seen Reddan a couple of times recently and I haven't been that impressed. He needs to get his act together as on form he could overtake O'Leary and he will be vital to Leinster's hopes of retaining the Heineken!

I just don,t rate Reddan at all. O,Leary plays too much like an extra back row forward, which Ireland don,t need. If you look at Stringers performances for Ireland in last years 6 Nations, he is the most capable of the three of bringing the backs into the game. IMO.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 03, 2010, 11:20:13 AM
Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!
Trimble shouldn't play. It was a Horgan/Earls toss up with Earls possibly shading it. Trimbles try was against bath. He's a stupid defender as opposed to a bad one and an average attacker with little pace.
[/i]

 ::)You are having a laugh I take it.

As with all of Ireland's game's last year it will be a victory but a poor game.
No I'm not. If you don't believe me wait for the match on Saturday or more likely the match in Paris to see him being exploited.

I italicised your comments about Trimble being "an average attacker with little pace". It was this portion of your post that I was taking issue with. The evidence this season and at the back end of last quite clearly shows otherwise. He has been Ulster's main attacking threat in a back-line that has shown a fair degree of inventiveness.

As for defence neither Earls (who was shakey on the Lions tour and for Munster) or Horgan are any better in this aspect.




Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: INDIANA on February 03, 2010, 12:18:19 PM
I would not argue with him about the arrogant bit, but I find it hard to believe that there are 150,000 rugby players in Ireland and only 46,000 in Wales.  If those figures are correct, our record against Wales is very poor.

Those figures are not correct. Numbers from 2007.

Ireland

    * Adult Male Players: 21740
    * Women Players: 1756
    * Number of Secondary Schools Players: 23586
    * Number of Youth Players: 12472
    * Number of Mini Rugby Players: 10967
    * Primary School: 32209
    * TOTAL PLAYERS: 100974

So a 100,000 players but that's including teens, kids, women, etc. That was three years ago so numbers are probably a bit different by now. On the IRB website the big difference seems to be in children playing the game. 60,600 children in Ireland and 10,000 in Wales. Not sure how reliable those numbers are to be honest. In fairness though Ireland have fairly consistently got the better of Wales for the past 30 years. It was before that really when the Welsh had the upper hand.

yep but there are 60,000 schools rugby players. 70% of them give up after school. Thats the problem rugby has here. Its become such a contact game that most lads unless you're going to be  apro- just pack it in altogether.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on February 03, 2010, 12:36:36 PM
Trimble will do fine. His offloading problems mean he won't play international centre again (barring an injury crisis), but he has the line-breaking ability and finishing prowess to be a useful wing at any level. I don't buy this theory that he is defensively weak. As well as being an imposing big lump of a lad, the lessons learned from his formative years in the middle make him a bit more solid in tackle and flexible in his technique than an out-an-out winger.

Good on Deccie with the team selection all round. It shows that players can play their way into his team from the wilderness. Plenty of useful options on the bench too.


As for the 6N overall, I've a feeling that 3 wins with a good scoring difference might take the title. England and France both have the backs to cause a rout, Scotland and Italy both have the packs to keep things respectable, while Wales and Ireland probably have the better balanced sides. Home advantage should prove crucial all round.


Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 03, 2010, 07:11:40 PM
I just don,t rate Reddan at all. O,Leary plays too much like an extra back row forward, which Ireland don,t need. If you look at Stringers performances for Ireland in last years 6 Nations, he is the most capable of the three of bringing the backs into the game. IMO.
Stringer is very predictable to play against though. He will invariably fling the pass, unless a gap the width of the Shannon opens up. Opposition defenders can generally start drifting towards the next player.

At least O'Leary can make breaks and play a more ball-in-hand running game, as well as being physical.
That said O'Leary needs to cuts down on his tendency to hit meaningless half hit kicks straight to the opposition.
If you plan on giving the ball away, at least stick it behind players and gain territory.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 03, 2010, 09:33:10 PM
Trimbles try against Bath was fnatastic. Don't mind that joker who said the prop nearly caught him. Yes the prop was close to him near the end but the correct way of describing that situation was that Trimble didn't need him because he was so fast not "the prop nearly caught up with him because he was so slow" jaysus wept.

Stringer is so lucky he came along when he did and got all those caps. He is not half as good as O'Leary and Reddan.

I make France favorites for the 6 nations as they play England and Ireland at home and would be favourites for both games. that could give them the edge in the championship, but I remain quietly optimistic that Ireland can spring a shock in Paris if all the key players are fit. O'Leary, O'Driscoll, O'Connell, Wallace, Heaslip, Ferris etc.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Declan on February 04, 2010, 03:45:21 PM
Leinster lock Leo Cullen has replaced the injured Donncha O'Callaghan in the Ireland line-up for the RBS Six Nations opener against Italy on Saturday.
O'Callaghan was ruled out of the Croke Park game on Thursday morning because of a knee injury.
Munster's Donnacha Ryan takes Cullen's place on the bench and he is in line for a first Six Nations cap.
Ronan O'Gara returns at fly-half while Leinster flanker Kevin McLaughlin is the only new cap for the holders.
Jonathan Sexton, who starred at number 10 in the November win over world champions South Africa, was ruled out because of a dead leg injury.
McLaughlin replaces injured Ulster star Stephen Ferris, Andrew Trimble wins a place in the wing and Gordon D'Arcy is in at centre.
Trimble, who has been in sparking form for Ulster, is preferred to Keith Earls while D'Arcy has been picked ahead of Paddy Wallace to be Brian O'Driscoll's partner at centre.
Wallace is on the bench as cover for centre and fly-half, so Sexton, whose five penalties helped the Irish humble the Springboks in the autumn, is axed from the 22 altogether.
Ulster hooker Rory Best's inclusion as a replacement completes a remarkably quick comeback from neck surgery.
Best, who had not been expected to play rugby this season, was in the Ireland A side which lost to the England Saxons last Sunday.
O'Callaghan's knee injury prevented him from taking a full part in Monday's squad session but he was able to train at the RDS on Tuesday.
However, the Corkman's left knee was tested on Wednesday and it was decided to withdraw him from the squad.
Without the injured Ferris, a key performer in last year's first Grand Slam since 1948, Kidney went for 24-year-old McLaughlin ahead of fellow in-form Leinster back row Sean O'Brien.

Ferris sustained a knee injury while on Heineken Cup duty for Ulster against Bath 10 days ago and has not been risked with the crucial showdown against France looming on Saturday week.
"I would not say I am shocked. I felt like I had a chance coming into this week," said McLaughlin.
"It is a big step up for me this weekend but I will treat it like any other game, just get on with it and play my game on Saturday."

Ireland: R Kearney, T Bowe, B O'Driscoll, G D'Arcy, A Trimble, R O'Gara, T O'Leary; C Healy, J Flannery, J Hayes, L Cullen, P'Connell, K McLaughlin, D Wallace, J Heaslip.
Replacements: R Best, T Court, D Ryan, S O'Brien, E Reddan, P Wallace, K Earls.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: dec on February 04, 2010, 08:04:01 PM
For those of you in the US, BBC America is showing one live game each week, including 3 of the 5 Ireland games.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/content/394/match-schedule.jsp

    Wales vs. England     Saturday, February 6th at 12pm ET / 9am PT
    Ireland vs. France     Saturday, February 13th at 11:30am ET / 8:30am PT
    Ireland vs. England     Saturday, February 27th at 11am ET / 8am PT
    Wales vs. Ireland     Saturday, March 13th at 9:30am ET / 6:30am PT
    England vs. France     Saturday, March 20th at 2:45pm ET / 11:45am PT
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: gawa316 on February 05, 2010, 08:31:35 PM
Ireland A match on BBC website
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Declan on February 05, 2010, 09:59:16 PM
reland Wolfhounds (17) 34
Tries: Henry, McFadden 2, Boss, Murphy Cons: Humphreys 3 Pens: Humphreys
Scotland A (0) 19
Tries: Eddie, Robertson, Penalty Cons: Jackson 2

Ireland Wolfhounds held off a second-half fightback from Scotland A to win Friday's clash at Ravenhill.

Tries from Chris Henry and Fergus McFadden helped the Irish lead 17-0 at the break.

James Eddie and Mark Robertson scored third-quarter tries for Scotland but McFadden and Isaac Boss touchdowns kept Ireland 29-12 ahead.

Ireland's scrum creaked late on as the Scots were awarded a penalty try but Johne Murphy scored a late Irish try.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: AFS on February 06, 2010, 02:05:39 PM
I like this thread better than that shit dissident one.

Ireland by 13.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 06, 2010, 02:33:59 PM
Tom McGurk just seemed to imply Stephen Jones is possibly the worst rugby journalist in the world!!!!

Jones has called the Irish scrum the worst in the world. We must have the best 9-15 then.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 06, 2010, 02:48:46 PM
Brilliant try although if Trimble had offloaded it would have come earlier.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 06, 2010, 03:14:02 PM
this is turning into what exactly it should be - the best team in europe against the worst.

Rob Kearney just giving them 5 points there as i hit "post" :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Declan on February 06, 2010, 03:17:52 PM
Trimble poor as well for that kick
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: thejuice on February 06, 2010, 03:19:09 PM
I won the prediction league last year at work, hoping to retain the tilte this year.

Had this game predicted to be a 24-13 win for Ireland. Can't happen now and I think Ireland are going to push on in the second but Im confident Italy might have one more unconverted try in them.

Itally are so feckin slow with the ball. They really look clueless in the line-out as well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 06, 2010, 03:26:37 PM
Ireland going well.

Kearney giving out late Xmas present.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 06, 2010, 03:28:54 PM
Ireland going well.

Kearney giving out late Xmas present.

Hook is gas. After 20 minutes he was proclaiming Gower as the answer to Italy's outhalf problems.

At halftime when asked about McLaughlin he said 'too early to tell'.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 06, 2010, 03:29:35 PM
whats withe the italalians keeping the ball in the ruck for ages. its allowing the irish to set their lines and all italy end up doing is a box kick ! Strange
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 06, 2010, 03:31:43 PM
Cullen lucky not get yellow. If that happened O'Connell we'd be annoyed.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: thejuice on February 06, 2010, 03:39:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnoUlZnwYy4

- why?  ???
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 06, 2010, 03:53:04 PM
Ireland not playing well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 06, 2010, 03:57:14 PM
Ireland playing pass the parcel. ???
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 06, 2010, 03:58:35 PM
If they play like that against France 20 points won't save them.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: hardstation on February 06, 2010, 03:59:03 PM
Ireland playing pass the parcel. ???
Does the winner get air?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 06, 2010, 04:00:19 PM
Ireland playing pass the parcel. ???
Does the winner get air?

Winner gets dinner in Fearon's house.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 06, 2010, 04:03:03 PM
Awful boring rugby, Italy with no ambition and with O'Gara at 10 Ireland were very limited in attack, Wallace might make a diff. Sexton needs to start against France if we are to win.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 06, 2010, 04:03:50 PM
Glad I had to work today too..
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 06, 2010, 04:12:03 PM
Awful boring rugby, Italy with no ambition and with O'Gara at 10 Ireland were very limited in attack, Wallace might make a diff. Sexton needs to start against France if we are to win.

O'Gara was one of the better ones today but I'd prefer Sexton also. Cullen won't survive if O'Callaghan is remotely fit. Rory Best needs more game time and of our backs only O'Driscoll & O'Leary were approaching adequate today.

Paddy Wallace showed that he is an important member of the squad.

Back row (Heaslip seems to have magnets in his hands) and O'Connell did well while the front row stood up well most of the time.

First game always likely to be rusty so not too bothered.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: takeyourownpath on February 06, 2010, 04:17:21 PM
slow as f**k, for the first game of the competition it wasn't TOO bad.
a win's a win!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 06, 2010, 04:17:55 PM
O'Gara was one of the better ones today

He did what he does very well, kicked the points and kicked for territory but our 1st phase attacked was impotent, Sexton takes the ball a lot flatter and creates more space. With less possession against France, we need to be more clinical.

Scrum was solid and looked much better though with Best and McCourt on.

O'Leary, the two 2nd rows and back-row all played well.

Not worried but at the same time not as confident about next week.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 06, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Italy were woeful today - Ireland will need to be better next week. Need to be more positive - no ambition out there today from either team.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: magickingdom on February 06, 2010, 04:18:52 PM
ireland did what they had to but hard to watch. paris next week will be a different story
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on February 06, 2010, 04:19:02 PM
Struggling to remember a 6N game that was worse...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 06, 2010, 04:19:22 PM
That was nearly as bad as last year's game against Italy. Very poor fare with far too much aimless kicking especially in the 2nd half. Very frustrating to see Kearney try and boot the leather off the ball time after time when he can counter-attack as good as anyone. Only positive was the Irish scrum went pretty well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 06, 2010, 04:24:16 PM
That was nearly as bad as last year's game against Italy. Very poor fare with far too much aimless kicking especially in the 2nd half. Very frustrating to see Kearney try and boot the leather off the ball time after time when he can counter-attack as good as anyone. Only positive was the Irish scrum went pretty well.

We could have set our priority at scoring another try or two.

Kidney took off (forced or otherwise) O'Connell, Wallace & O'Connell before 70 minutes & emptied the bench before the end. It probably meant we finished without a flourish but hopefully will be better for it next week.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 06, 2010, 04:26:41 PM
exactly - bigger fish to fry in the next 2 away games. 3- 0 would have done against the italians
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on February 06, 2010, 04:30:36 PM
To be honest the only substitution that I found strange was Trimble. Of Ireland's back 3, he was the only one who looked remotely threatening or on form today.

The rest of the guys taken off were all tired or taken off for precautions.

Just a few thoughts. Paddy Wallace's cameo summed up everything that's limited about O'Gara's game. Italy won't get beat beaten by 20+ points by anyone this year - they're extremly professional and determined, and know how to shut things down. Cullen was a more than adept replacement for O'Callaghan. Court might just put the Bull pasture by the end of the season.

All told, considering it was basically a "B" team on the field for the last quarter, it wasn't a bad performance, just not particularly inspiring.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 06, 2010, 04:41:22 PM
Paris will be tough. Ireland usually get run ragged in the first 20 minutes.
Some of the recent scorelines have been air brushed a little by Ireland tacking on consolation scores at the end.

However the sort of average performance sets it up nicely to improve matters.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: turk on February 06, 2010, 09:14:02 PM
Ireland should beat France in Paris. Of course by the time the match takes place the media will have beaten down Ireland's chances by talking up the mammoth task ahead etc.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 06, 2010, 10:01:36 PM
Ireland should beat France in Paris. Of course by the time the match takes place the media will have beaten down Ireland's chances by talking up the mammoth task ahead etc.
In this case, the media would have good enough cause though.
History isn't on Ireland's side.

Ireland vs France results in Paris since the French left Colombes.

2008 Lost 26 - 21 Stade de France
2007 Lost 22 - 3 Stade de France (WC)
2006 Lost 43 - 31 Stade de France
2004 Lost 35 - 17 Stade de France
2002 Lost 44 - 5 Stade de France
2000 Won  27 - 25 Stade de France
1998 Lost 18 - 16 Stade de France
1996 Lost 45 - 10  Parc des Princes
1994 Lost 35 - 15 Parc des Princes
1992 Lost 44 - 12 Parc des Princes
1990 Lost 31 - 12 Parc des Princes
1988 Lost 25 - 6 Parc des Princes
1986 Lost 29 - 9 Parc des Princes
1984 Lost 25 - 12 Parc des Princes
1982 Lost 22 - 9 Parc des Princes
1980 Lost 19 - 18 Parc des Princes
1978 Lost 10 - 9 Parc des Princes
1976 Lost 26 - 3 Parc des Princes
1974 Lost 9 - 6 Parc des Princes
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: turk on February 06, 2010, 11:27:44 PM
Ireland should beat France in Paris. Of course by the time the match takes place the media will have beaten down Ireland's chances by talking up the mammoth task ahead etc.
In this case, the media would have good enough cause though.
History isn't on Ireland's side.

Ireland vs France results in Paris since the French left Colombes.

2008 Lost 26 - 21 Stade de France
2007 Lost 22 - 3 Stade de France (WC)
2006 Lost 43 - 31 Stade de France
2004 Lost 35 - 17 Stade de France
2002 Lost 44 - 5 Stade de France
2000 Won  27 - 25 Stade de France
1998 Lost 18 - 16 Stade de France
1996 Lost 45 - 10  Parc des Princes
1994 Lost 35 - 15 Parc des Princes
1992 Lost 44 - 12 Parc des Princes
1990 Lost 31 - 12 Parc des Princes
1988 Lost 25 - 6 Parc des Princes
1986 Lost 29 - 9 Parc des Princes
1984 Lost 25 - 12 Parc des Princes
1982 Lost 22 - 9 Parc des Princes
1980 Lost 19 - 18 Parc des Princes
1978 Lost 10 - 9 Parc des Princes
1976 Lost 26 - 3 Parc des Princes
1974 Lost 9 - 6 Parc des Princes

Just because something happened before doesn't mean it will happen again! By your argument, uruguay would be going for their 19th straight world cup, limerick would be winning the all ireland football every year and preston north end would win the EPL yet again. Ridiculous!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 07, 2010, 08:15:15 AM
Struggling to remember a 6N game that was worse...

THe 6N has been poor for a number of years now. Rarely do you see a good game of rugby, Ireland were awful today agianst a dreadful Italian team and both were bereft of ideas behind the scrum.

Substitutions did shke it up a bit though and Ireland then became more inventive. Couldn't undertsand the subbing of Trimble though as he was the only back showing threat with ball in hand , which is what the game was crying out for ???

Aerial ping pong is now killing the 6Ns IMHO.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on February 07, 2010, 09:14:23 AM
Struggling to remember a 6N game that was worse...

THe 6N has been poor for a number of years now. Rarely do you see a good game of rugby, Ireland were awful today agianst a dreadful Italian team and both were bereft of ideas behind the scrum.

Substitutions did shke it up a bit though and Ireland then became more inventive. Couldn't undertsand the subbing of Trimble though as he was the only back showing threat with ball in hand , which is what the game was crying out for ???

Aerial ping pong is now killing the 6Ns IMHO.

I don't really follow "club" rugby but from what I hear it's as bad.  Eng/Wal wasn't much better.  From a spectating point of view rugby is poor, the lawmakers will have to do something about the constant kicking.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Hardy on February 07, 2010, 12:03:59 PM
What's the problem with kicking the ball in a game called rugby football?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Dubh driocht on February 07, 2010, 10:26:29 PM
Was at my first ( and probably last) non-GAA game in Croke yesterday. Enjoyable, but not a patch on Newbridge today  ;).The forwards were good despite inconsistent refereeing- O'Connell and Cullen VG, David Wallace covered great ground and tackled like a demon.ROG was super but it was a privilege to see O'Driscoll, in my top ten of greatest living Irishmen.Will be an interesting comparison with the up and coming French centre Bastareaud next week- my money will still be on the Clontarf man. Italian fans were great, especially the guy with the Horse's head outside the Cusack afterwards ( ironically had watched the Godfather on Friday night for umpteenth time). We will need Ferris next week- any word on him ?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: longrunsthefox on February 07, 2010, 10:27:35 PM
Struggling to remember a 6N game that was worse...

THe 6N has been poor for a number of years now. Rarely do you see a good game of rugby, Ireland were awful today agianst a dreadful Italian team and both were bereft of ideas behind the scrum.

Substitutions did shke it up a bit though and Ireland then became more inventive. Couldn't undertsand the subbing of Trimble though as he was the only back showing threat with ball in hand , which is what the game was crying out for ???

Aerial ping pong is now killing the 6Ns IMHO.

I don't really follow "club" rugby but from what I hear it's as bad.  Eng/Wal wasn't much better.  From a spectating point of view rugby is poor, the lawmakers will have to do something about the constant kicking.

Agreed-I hate it.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Hardy on February 08, 2010, 09:35:01 AM
Any takers? What's wrong with kicking the ball in a game called rugby football?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: stephenite on February 08, 2010, 09:54:31 AM
Any takers? What's wrong with kicking the ball in a game called rugby football?

I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with it per se, but it has become a more prevalent tactic and it's shocking bad to watch.

I'd prefer to see more forwards mauing and rucking, setting the platform for the smaller lads to run through holes in the line.

But no more than Gaelic Football and it's sometime pecuilar brand of rugby league, there's no rules broken and the winners won't give a fcuk
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 08, 2010, 06:26:10 PM
Any takers? What's wrong with kicking the ball in a game called rugby football?
Better still, shoot for the posts instead of the corner flags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjLjLiOCeXA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjLjLiOCeXA)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Italy, 6 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 08, 2010, 06:28:46 PM
We will need Ferris next week- any word on him ?
Yep, badly needed as the French back row can be destructive.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 08, 2010, 08:57:15 PM
Who will be blindside if Ferris does not make it? Quinlan is option number 1 I think, after that Jennings, Sean O'Brien. What about Neil Best still playing pretty well for Northampton I think. I would preferr best or Quinlan.  I do not think Mclaughlin is good enough at this point???

Cullen has to go, ok against the Italians. The lads were bieng very nice about him maybe keeping his place for the French game and will make Declan Kidney out to be a big meanie for dropping him if O'Callaghan is fit, but ye cannae change the laws of Physics Capatain.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2010, 09:14:27 PM
Quinny wasn't even among the 11 players called up today so that rules him out. Best seems to have fallen off the radar since the Churchill Cup too.

McLaughlin did ok on Saturday. Not sure I'd go with him in Paris though. O'Brien played at 6 against Souh Africa after Ferris went off injured and didn't look out of place. He's also a more dynamic ball-carrier than any of the other options. That will be needed to tie in Dusatoir and Harinordoquy who are capable of doing all sorts of damage if they're let loose. I must admit I've never been a fan of Jennings. He's a talented openside but I don't think he has the temperament needed. Always likely to give away a stupid penalty at the wrong time (think Welford Road when ROG kicked a last minute penalty to beat Leicester from half way).

Cullen had a great day at the lineout on Saturday but he isn't as prominent around the pitch as DOC. The Irish pack are going to have to carry ball and tie in the French back-row on Saturday to have any chance. With this in mind, I'd give DOC the nod if fit.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: GaillimhIarthair on February 09, 2010, 01:02:02 PM
IRELAND Team & Replacements (v France, RBS 6 Nations
Championship, Stade de France, February 13, kick-off
16:30 gmt):

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)

1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
4 - Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - A.N.Other
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2010, 02:05:33 PM
O'Callaghan obviously isn't fit as he would definitely have started against the French. Other than that Earls for Trimble doesn't weaken anything, it probably improves the team actually.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 09, 2010, 05:48:33 PM
O'Callaghan obviously isn't fit as he would definitely have started against the French. Other than that Earls for Trimble doesn't weaken anything, it probably improves the team actually.
Be careful I was near crucified last week for suggesting Trimble didn't have it at this level.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 09, 2010, 06:23:01 PM
O'Callaghan didn't get fit on time so the irish pack willl have its work cut out for them. Cullen will get tossed around the place. At least Earls might add a bit of creativity and penetration to the backline. I thought he might have given Shane Horgan a place in the squad instead of Trimble.

What is with the 9 replacements, does everybody get a game and we are all winners or is this not a serious competition.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 10, 2010, 06:51:34 PM
O'Callaghan didn't get fit on time so the irish pack willl have its work cut out for them. Cullen will get tossed around the place. At least Earls might add a bit of creativity and penetration to the backline. I thought he might have given Shane Horgan a place in the squad instead of Trimble.

What is with the 9 replacements, does everybody get a game and we are all winners or is this not a serious competition.

2 of the replacements will be taken out one way or another closer to the game.... but yes Declan Kidney just wants everyone to go out and enjoy themselves on Saturday with rugby being the real winner at the end of the day ::) ::)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 11, 2010, 08:46:18 AM
Confirmation of Ferris fitness expected today

Stephen Ferris is expected to be deemed fit to play in Ireland's crucial RBS 6 Nations match against France later today.

The Ulster flanker has been out of action since 23 January, when he injured his knee during his province's away victory against Bath in the Heineken Cup.

The injury meant Ferris was advised to be 'non-weight bearing' by medical staff for a week, but such is his importance to Declan Kidney's side that he has been given extra time to recover for Ireland's clash with France at the Stade de France on Saturday.

And a space in Declan Kidney's starting line-up was kept for Ferris when the Ireland team was announced on Tuesday. Ferris has been training with the squad this week and with no adverse developments yet reported, he is expected to be confirmed in the Ireland starting line-up at around 12.30pm today.

The final stage in Jonathan Sexton's recovery is also expected to be confirmed today. The Leinster out-half continued his recovery from a minor leg muscle tear by returning to goal kicking on Wednesday.

Sexton is in line to take a place on the bench for Ireland's trip to Paris although two substitutes will have to be taken out of the current line-up as nine, not including Ferris, have been named.

Of the backs, either Sexton, Paddy Wallace or Andrew Trimble will probably have to be taken out of the squad.

A decision will also have to be taken on the composition of the bench in the forwards. Kevin McLaughlin, who started against Italy, Sean O'Brien and Donnacha Ryan are the current lock and back-row cover but again, that will be probably add up to one too many.

Ryan is almost certain to be retained as he is the second row back-up and McLaughlin could be the man who finds himself left out if Ferris makes the starting line-up.

Ireland are due to fly out to Paris this afternoon.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 11, 2010, 08:57:27 AM
Good news about Ferris, so long as he isn't off the pace.
If Sexton is fit, a good test of his ability would be to come on in the last 20 minutes and try and get the backs moving with a running game.

I think Earls could be the secret attacking weapon. Still relatively unknown at international level, if he gets the ball to stick, he can cause problems. His defensive abilities will be tested by Clerc though.

Not gifting the French the traditional 20 or 30 point head start would be a help.  ;)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: ha ha derry on February 11, 2010, 09:54:27 AM
If Ferris is fit to start it,s a very formidable back row. I,ll go for an Ireland win.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 11, 2010, 10:05:30 AM
actually neil best is prob the only other decent exp replacement for ferris.
McLaughlin will prb be good , O'Brien better as an attacker than a defender, Jennings is good but hasnt got to the level where people thought he would get to (yet at least).
So strange that neil best is out in the wilderness. Prob because of the emergence of ferris.

I dont like a few selections in that team.
Against france they could be shown up.

i'd replace darcy, oleary,flannery and cullen
with
wallace , redden, best and ryan (though for a change we dont have much option at second row). Cullen is too indiciplined and could cost a win through kickable penalties.
As the french are not as good in second row or kicking prowess he might get away with not being as good as we usually have in our second row department.

If france dont self explode , I cant see us beating them with darcy's selfishness, olearys stupid box kicking and not feeding the backs, flannerys anonimity in the game and cullen giving away penalties.
I hope I am wrong though.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 11, 2010, 01:19:55 PM
How about reversing the habit of decades and really attacking them in the 1st couple of scrums.

In the past they have done it to us and their early dominance in those games stemed from that. It is only later on after a period of damage limitation that we realise there is nothing to fear and then we start to play ourselves.

So this time 'front up' or whatever the rugby speak is right from the off.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 11, 2010, 02:05:04 PM
actually neil best is prob the only other decent exp replacement for ferris.
McLaughlin will prb be good , O'Brien better as an attacker than a defender, Jennings is good but hasnt got to the level where people thought he would get to (yet at least).
So strange that neil best is out in the wilderness. Prob because of the emergence of ferris.

I dont like a few selections in that team.
Against france they could be shown up.

i'd replace darcy, oleary,flannery and cullen
with
wallace , redden, best and ryan (though for a change we dont have much option at second row). Cullen is too indiciplined and could cost a win through kickable penalties.
As the french are not as good in second row or kicking prowess he might get away with not being as good as we usually have in our second row department.

If france dont self explode , I cant see us beating them with darcy's selfishness, olearys stupid box kicking and not feeding the backs, flannerys anonimity in the game and cullen giving away penalties.
I hope I am wrong though.

Jaysus I think Cullen is grand with his discipline if anything an improvement - discipline wise - on O'Callaghan who can be wild at times
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 11, 2010, 02:49:09 PM
Jaysus I think Cullen is grand with his discipline if anything an improvement - discipline wise - on O'Callaghan who can be wild at times
OCallaghan used to be a disaster in terms of giving away penalties etc, but in the last two seasons has stopped that - imo at least.
Cullen last sat was poor in th discipline stakes. A few petulent actions around rucks and that pushing in the lineout would give away penalties and possibly even a yellow card if he does it again on sat.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 11, 2010, 02:55:34 PM
Jaysus I think Cullen is grand with his discipline if anything an improvement - discipline wise - on O'Callaghan who can be wild at times
OCallaghan used to be a disaster in terms of giving away penalties etc, but in the last two seasons has stopped that - imo at least.
Cullen last sat was poor in th discipline stakes. A few petulent actions around rucks and that pushing in the lineout would give away penalties and possibly even a yellow card if he does it again on sat.

Well I didn't see the game on Saturday but heard Shane Byrne on the radio saying he was very impressed with Cullen as he got into the faces of the Italians whenever he could - which is exactly what was needed.

O'Callaghan has improved a fair bit in the last while but one dopey penalty sticks out from the match in Cardiff from last year... patting one of the Welsh boys on the head after they gave away a penalty and the ref immediately reversed his decision... it was funny though looking back at it now
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 11, 2010, 03:14:58 PM
2 out halves on the bench as cover for the backs, I would have preferred if he had included Trimble than Wallace.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 11, 2010, 03:17:23 PM
2 out halves on the bench as cover for the backs, I would have preferred if he had included Trimble than Wallace.

Well Wallace isn't an out and out fly half - probably his versatility helped him get the nod
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 12, 2010, 02:27:14 PM
The Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys are at it again...



France's Morgan Parra says Irish 'cheat every weekend'


RBS SIX NATIONS - FRANCE v IRELAND


Scrum-half Morgan Parra has become the latest France player to hit out at Grand Slam champions Ireland in advance of Saturday's Six Nations clash.

Lionel Nallet cast doubts on Ireland's credentials earlier this week and Parra claimed that Declan Kidney's side "cheat every weekend".

"They have a great defence. (They're) cheating, but intelligently cheating. It's very well done," said Parra.

"If we did the same thing, we would be punished each time."

Parra added that he while he respected the Irish team, he had "little admiration" for last year's Six Nations champions.

The Grand Slam champions are undefeated in their past 12 matches but Parra is convinced that run will be brought to an end on Saturday.

"The Irish have a great team, with a Munster spine, but I am not impressed. We can be (impressed) by certain players but not in general by their team.
   
We dissected the video very well. There's not a moment when they're not cheating.

France scrum-half Morgan Parra

"How many matches have they gone without defeat? Twelve, 13? Well fine, that will finish at 12 this Saturday."

Ireland have the added motivation of revenge as the country is still smarting at the way the Republic of Ireland football team was defeated by France in the World Cup play-offs following Thierry Henry's infamous handball.

Ireland back Keith Earls said recently they would not hesitate to cheat on Saturday but Parra hit back by insisting that Irish do so all the time.

"That won't be a surprise. They have experienced players who can do so.

"We dissected the video very well. There's not a moment when they're not cheating.

"They're the least penalised team in the tournament, which is very impressive."

On Thursday, lock Nallet dubbed the Irish as "effective" but was far from gushing in his description of Declan Kidney's side.

"Their game does not make me jump," said Nallet.

"They are a European reference since they last won the tournament. But we're here, too. I do not see them as the best in the world."

Nallet acknowledge that he is expecting a sterner test than that produced by Scotland last weekend as the French clinched a comprehensive 18-9 win at Murrayfield.

"It will be a big fight to deliver face as we face stronger opponents than the Scots, especially up front," added Nallet.

Should Ireland prevail against the Six Nations favourites at the Stade de France, it will be only their third successful visit to the French capital since 1952.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 12, 2010, 02:28:27 PM
You just know comments like that are gonna be stuck up on the Irish Dressing Room wall, not that any extra motivation is needed!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 12, 2010, 02:48:09 PM
Irish cheating ?
pot kettle and black mr parra !!!

then again EVERY team does - from forward passes, to closing too early in the line out, to messing with the binding an driving in scrum to being continually offside

the south africans are worst at it followed by the aussies (though Dinny will no doubt say NZ are the worst)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 12, 2010, 03:34:15 PM
If you can slow down the ball in rugby you are giving your team a chance to organise their defence, Ireland are very apt a this and it's very much a Munster strength, it's not cheating per se much more pushing the boundaries of the law, Ireland will have their homework done on the ref and will know exactly what they can get away with - Ireland are a well organised team and it's a massive strength. If we can take it to the French early in the game, play the corners and territory, frustrate them we'll win especially as I feel Kidney will bring on Sexton in the last 20 when the game is looser. If France though get their noses in front and we have chase early we don't have the fire power to compete. Rugby intelligence is the most important factor in a game like this, with the likes of POC, ROG and BOD all on the Paddock Ireland are Einstein compared to the French leaders.

NZ are masters at cheating by the way, McCaw been the best cheater in the world.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 12, 2010, 04:06:41 PM
One thing that he is correct on is that Ireland are not very entertaining to watch and haven't been so for a while. Last week's game was woeful. Mind you , O'Gara aside ,the Irish do have more creativity in the backs when compared with the likes of Bastareaud and Jauzion . This was certainly never the case in the 80s/90s.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 12, 2010, 04:14:33 PM
One thing that he is correct on is that Ireland are not very entertaining to watch and haven't been so for a while. Last week's game was woeful. Mind you , O'Gara aside ,the Irish do have more creativity in the backs when compared with the likes of Bastareaud and Jauzion . This was certainly never the case in the 80s/90s.

Hmmm I thought that the 3 games in the Autumn were very entertaining!!  Granted I didn't see last week's game but by most accounts it wasn't a classic!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 12, 2010, 04:18:29 PM
Blackrock college lost against Gerards of Bray, 7-0 yesteday  which might be of interest to those who know what it means. I had a neice born today and that type of result might never happen again in her lifetime.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 12, 2010, 04:24:03 PM
Blackrock college lost against Gerards of Bray, 7-0 yesteday  which might be of interest to those who know what it means. I had a neice born today and that type of result might never happen again in her lifetime.

I presume thats the Senior Cup?  I know feck all about it but enough to know that would be a shock at least going on history.  Are Blackrock out now?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on February 12, 2010, 04:28:35 PM
I actually think O'Gara has a lovely flat pass/skip pass. The problem with him is that he is a lot deeper than say Sexton, so the opposition can get up very quick if he decides to spin it out. Of course being a bit deeper helps with his kicking.

I don't buy into it that he is some sort of black hole.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 12, 2010, 04:31:06 PM
I actually think O'Gara has a lovely flat pass/skip pass. The problem with him is that he is a lot deeper than say Sexton, so the opposition can get up very quick if he decides to spin it out. Of course being a bit deeper helps with his kicking.

I don't buy into it that he is some sort of black hole.

ROG gives a great interview here.  Having read his autobiography recently he really is a open and honest fella and this interview backs it up

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/8512507.stm
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 12, 2010, 04:31:48 PM
Yup, back home in the castle crying into their dinners as if a relative had passed away. They really do have a castle.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 12, 2010, 04:43:06 PM
I actually think O'Gara has a lovely flat pass/skip pass. The problem with him is that he is a lot deeper than say Sexton, so the opposition can get up very quick if he decides to spin it out. Of course being a bit deeper helps with his kicking.

I don't buy into it that he is some sort of black hole.

If an OH who  lies deep and with defences so well organised these days you will not see an entertaining game of rugby.

The excitement (and therefore risk) now comes from quick ruck/set piece  ball delivered to an OH who takes it close to the gain line. The risk in O'Gara taking the ball close to the gain line is obviously too great for Ireland as he is too easily turned over and not evasive enough .

Whilst he was awful in last season's 6 Nations (notwithstanding the DG v Wales) his performances this year (2010) have not been bad , in that he has played to Ireland's game plan and kicked his goals.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 13, 2010, 04:06:17 PM
Jaysus less than half an hour to go.... and I can't wait

I'd love to see them Hit the hitter ie Bastareud like Munster did for Chabal against Sale a couple of years ago...

Come on Ireland
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Zapatista on February 13, 2010, 04:22:46 PM
Only ever watched a handfull of rugby games in my life. Just got a few beers in and will sit and watch this one. Looking forward to it actuallly.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Carmen Stateside on February 13, 2010, 04:37:18 PM
Any links for this online?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Niall Quinn on February 13, 2010, 04:54:28 PM
Seems to be good quality on:

http://ilemi.com
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 13, 2010, 05:00:09 PM
Gerry Flannery is cross about Thierry Henry.

Trapatoni will be looking about him !!!!   :D ;D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 13, 2010, 05:06:16 PM
Gerry Flannery is cross about Thierry Henry.

Trapatoni will be looking about him !!!!   :D ;D

He nearly cost us the match. Don't know what he was thinking.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 13, 2010, 05:10:24 PM
Gerry Flannery is cross about Thierry Henry.

Trapatoni will be looking about him !!!!   :D ;D

He nearly cost us the match. Don't know what he was thinking.

He must have been tinking about Henry and put the shoe in like a lot of Irish would have loved to have done with him at the time of the handball incident.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: The Worker on February 13, 2010, 05:12:08 PM
keek
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Carmen Stateside on February 13, 2010, 05:21:35 PM
Seems to be good quality on:

http://ilemi.com

Thanks.
Some defensive stand from the French there.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 13, 2010, 05:24:46 PM
need a big second half here to hang on to our crown
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Declan on February 13, 2010, 05:26:44 PM
Can see us getting a hiding in the second half.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 13, 2010, 05:27:56 PM
France have some lucky breaks to keep Ireland from crossing the line but Flannerys moment of madness cost us dearly...

I remain hopeful though
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 13, 2010, 05:28:15 PM
need a big second half here to hang on to our crown

Indiscipline and the bounce of a couple of balls made all the difference. We are actually playing well. A bit of luck needed early in the 2nd half though. Some magic from say Earls would be nice...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Niall Quinn on February 13, 2010, 05:28:58 PM
think we needed that try right on half time.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: gerry on February 13, 2010, 05:40:48 PM
Poor show. France up for this game all week. Cannot see us turning this around to many silly mistakes happening
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 13, 2010, 05:52:49 PM
Poor show. France up for this game all week. Cannot see us turning this around to many silly mistakes happening

Stupid mistakes everywhere.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 13, 2010, 06:03:08 PM
The writing was on the wall last week  - this was coming. Now it's here - it can only get better.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 13, 2010, 07:45:02 PM
Too many mistakes when we would have had to play the perfect game to win. Healys yellow card and Flannerys reversal of the penalty were also devestating blows.

We were also outgunned physically, when kearney went off we put Wallace in for him with Earls at full back this made the team quite small in places and we saw Earls and wallace getting bullied by Basteraud. In addition O'Gara isn't the biggest and Cullen is a bit light weight for a secoond row. None of those players are anything approaching natural rugby athletes and when you have nearly a third of your team in that light weight camp you are going to need these players to deliver something else with their skills and with so many mistakes this never happened.

I disagree with the lads saying this team has reached its ceiling, I think the performance might have indicated that but we caught all the bad breaks while the French took theirs, I would call it a flat performance. There is an old half of the team and a young half of the team

Healy, Heaslip, Ferris, O'Leary, Sexton, Kearney, Bowe, earls and Fitgerald, Rory Best are the young half
and
Hayes, Flannery, O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Wallace, O'Gara, O'Driscoll, Darcy,  are the old half.

I think O'Connell and O'Callaghan might soldier on for a while and they will have to, but in terms of backs and back row players there is another fine generation already there. The feast followed by a famine scenario will not happen.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 13, 2010, 07:48:20 PM
Did anyone see Healys yellow card properly, i thought it was a bit harsh.

We made the French look a lot better than they are today, a little bit of luck for Darcy and just before halftime allied with Flannery not reversing that penalty would have taken us a long way in that match.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 13, 2010, 08:34:29 PM
Did anyone see Healys yellow card properly, i thought it was a bit harsh.

We made the French look a lot better than they are today, a little bit of luck for Darcy and just before halftime allied with Flannery not reversing that penalty would have taken us a long way in that match.

Definite yellow card and should have been at least that for Flannery.

The try came from our back row of Ferris, O'Driscoll & Wallace while our other two back rowers Heaslip & Darcy did well.

Darcy usually plays well against France as they always double team O'Driscoll, but unfortunately he achieved nothing in terms of the scoreboard.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: tyroneboi on February 13, 2010, 09:56:21 PM
Thought having both Sexton and Wallace on the bench was a strange decision when the squad was announced but in hindsight it proved to be quite costly. Having to move D'Arcy from the centre was a move which had a negative effect on the teams defence and attack. I am just not convinced about Paddy Wallace playing inside centre at this level.

Be very interesting to see the team selection for the England match. Doesnt look good for Rob Kearney. Who will slot in at full back? Earls? Bowe maybe (would be my choice actually think it would give him a bit more freedom in an attacking sense)? O'Callaghan will probably come back into the pack even though i thought Cullen had a decent game. Can Healy play at 3 or is he an out and out 1? Not sure what other changes that can be made??

It was a great run the team was on and it was going to come to end an end at some point. Its not all doom and gloom and maybe this defeat will be good for the team in the long term.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 13, 2010, 10:46:05 PM
Did anyone see Healys yellow card properly, i thought it was a bit harsh.

We made the French look a lot better than they are today, a little bit of luck for Darcy and just before halftime allied with Flannery not reversing that penalty would have taken us a long way in that match.

Definite yellow card and should have been at least that for Flannery.

The try came from our back row of Ferris, O'Driscoll & Wallace while our other two back rowers Heaslip & Darcy did well.

Darcy usually plays well against France as they always double team O'Driscoll, but unfortunately he achieved nothing in terms of the scoreboard.

Will Flannery be cited ??
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 13, 2010, 11:34:28 PM
He should be but you never know they might not as they won the game and If Ireland don't cite any of their players, I mean why bother as it only takes a player away from Ireland when they are playing England and Wales might be against the interest of the French.

i have to say we were very unlucky today. If darcy had been at any other point on the goal line for the kick ahead instead of that post, it would have been 7 points to Ireland. It didn't happen followed by more bad luck when Tommy Bowe went up for a high ball with Harry nor the guy, Bowe just missed out and harry nor the guy made a big break by running into the empty space that Bowe would have been occupying which set up the attacking opportunity that caused Keen Healy to get yellow carded. Cian Healy shouldn't have grabbed the guy but because it was the 12 stone chap it looked worse than it might have been, they wouldn't have scored at that point so it wasn't necessary and maybe the yellow card was a little harsh.

The tackling on the second french try both for the initial break by Basteraud and the try by Jauzion was terrible, or should that be the positioning of the players as both players were just allowed run straight through, nobody was responsible for tackling them.

So over all a few key mistakes and bits of bad luck and indiscipline cost us a lot. We also need to get bigger and really can't afford to have so many of these amateur type physiques like O'Gara, Cullen and Wallace on the park at any one time.

This RTE player thing is great.
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1066450

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 14, 2010, 12:04:02 AM

i have to say we were very unlucky today.



So over all a few key mistakes and bits of bad luck and indiscipline cost us a lot. We also need to get bigger and really can't afford to have so many of these amateur type physiques like O'Gara, Cullen and Wallace on the park at any one time.



Ireland were most certainly not unlucky and were well beaten. The score-line is reflective of the match. France were much superior.

The only Irish players emerging with any credit from that game were Darcy, O'Connell and possibly Ferris.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Declan on February 14, 2010, 12:28:25 AM
Quote
Darcy, O'Connell and possibly Ferris.

Thought Heaslip did OK as well
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on February 14, 2010, 11:00:04 AM
Irish rugby came back down to earth with a bang last night. We're nowhere near the level some of the journalists were telling us we were. If D'Arcy had got that try things might have been different but the French were worthy winners. It was men against boys at times.

I'd like to see a change at scrum half for Twickenham. O'Leary has looked poor since his injury. Far too ponderous and slow at the base and too many stupid pointless box kicks.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 14, 2010, 11:32:58 AM

i have to say we were very unlucky today.



So over all a few key mistakes and bits of bad luck and indiscipline cost us a lot. We also need to get bigger and really can't afford to have so many of these amateur type physiques like O'Gara, Cullen and Wallace on the park at any one time.



Ireland were most certainly not unlucky and were well beaten. The score-line is reflective of the match. France were much superior.

The only Irish players emerging with any credit from that game were Darcy, O'Connell and possibly Ferris.

I suppose you could say that, but luck and timing play a big part in sport and yesterday was a prime example of that. If the post isn;t in Darcys way the whole story of the game changes imho.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on February 14, 2010, 12:24:30 PM
He should be but you never know they might not as they won the game and If Ireland don't cite any of their players, I mean why bother as it only takes a player away from Ireland when they are playing England and Wales might be against the interest of the French.

i have to say we were very unlucky today. If darcy had been at any other point on the goal line for the kick ahead instead of that post, it would have been 7 points to Ireland. It didn't happen followed by more bad luck when Tommy Bowe went up for a high ball with Harry nor the guy, Bowe just missed out and harry nor the guy made a big break by running into the empty space that Bowe would have been occupying which set up the attacking opportunity that caused Keen Healy to get yellow carded. Cian Healy shouldn't have grabbed the guy but because it was the 12 stone chap it looked worse than it might have been, they wouldn't have scored at that point so it wasn't necessary and maybe the yellow card was a little harsh.

The tackling on the second french try both for the initial break by Basteraud and the try by Jauzion was terrible, or should that be the positioning of the players as both players were just allowed run straight through, nobody was responsible for tackling them.

So over all a few key mistakes and bits of bad luck and indiscipline cost us a lot. We also need to get bigger and really can't afford to have so many of these amateur type physiques like O'Gara, Cullen and Wallace on the park at any one time.

This RTE player thing is great.
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1066450

Jaysus Pat what match were you watching?  We were hammered by a much better side.  The scoreline was about right.  Healy's was definitely yellow and as for Flannery...how the hell did he not get at the very least a yellow..if fact I thought he should have got the line.  It has been termed a moment of "madness", I thought it was a moment of pure viciousness.  You can imagine the furore if that had been Servat on Tommy Bowe or Earls...Big improvement needed or the Brits could put 30 points on us at Twickers!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 14, 2010, 12:52:34 PM
Luck had no part in that game, 3 positions are key in the modern game, Tight-head, scrum-half and out-half. In those three positions we were very poor. After the Italy game it was the right thing to start O'Gara it was the wrong decision to leave him on after 40 mins and I know Kearney's injury would have had a influence in that (The bench selection was completely off, one subsitution should not result in three changes to a team).

If it was me a would cull Hayes and O'Gara now completely from the squad, no room for sentiment and we will not win another 6 nations with either of those two in the side not to mention World Cups. Talking of World Cups I would use the remaing three games, the summer tour and autumn international to build a squad that can go and try and win the World Cup next year. It will be a harsh learning curve but the rewards could be massive. We have nothing to lose.

Getting back to the game, I talked previously about rugby intelligence and how Ireland had the edge, I suppose what didn't come into my reckoning was how stupid Cian Healy and Jerry Flannery are, Healy will never be the brightest that's just genetic but wtf was Flannery at, they shifted the whole dynamic of that game in France's favour, instead of making France chase the game, they gifted them the lead. France are front-runners, they don't like chasing games, the other moment of madness was O'Leary before half-time - any score before half-time is a good score - puts the tidiest seed of doubt in the oppositions mind and gives your our side a liitle belief.

Overall France deserved that margin of victory and I had a lot of man love for Harinordoquy, favourite French player since Olivier Magne.

My team to start against England

Horan
Best
Court
Ryan
O'Connell
Ferris
O'Brien
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Trimble
Wallace
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney


Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 14, 2010, 01:03:50 PM
I still have to say if Darcy scores, the whole game changes, no irish scrum under pressure down to 7 men and resulting try, no need to not kick a penalty just before half time. No need for Jerry Flannery to be frustrated and lash out at the French man. Cian Healy yellow card, no Jauzin try. The French have to find their own way into the game which really they were not able to do until the last quarter.

Luck, timing, mistakes, and indiscipline all conspired against Ireland yesterday. It was not simply a case of france were great, Ireland were rubbish.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 14, 2010, 01:06:35 PM
Flannery obviously overreacted to the way Pallison challenged David Wallace for the ball.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 14, 2010, 01:12:08 PM
The dynamic of the game changes yes but you can't determine the swing. You can only deal with facts and the fact is Ireland deserved to be well beaten.

To be really critical why did D'Arcy kick the ball, he had a 1 v 1 and should have stepped of his left, plus where was the support? Wallace, Heaslip , Ferris? We didn't score that try because D'arcy made a poor decision and we don't have a natural 7 who should have been up his hole. Luck had no bearing at all.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Captain Scarlet on February 14, 2010, 01:55:12 PM
To be fair to Darcy there ha had made a fair burst and he does not have the big sidestep in the open spaces. Wouldn't be overly critical.
On one hand it's hard to start ripping into a team who have been so good for a sustained period but we were destroyed in Paris.
Healy's yellow may have stopped a try, and he is very inexperienced. Flannery has no excuse. That pen would have made it 3-3, instead France went down to cross the line. Tails up and then no stopping them, they were class. We killed ourselves at times too with some terrible knock ons.
O'Leary's ball was too slow, when Reddan arrived he sped it up.
As for physicality Earls, Wallace and O'Gara were milled afew times. Kidney got the bench wrong. Horgan coming on would at least bulked us up. Also there is a lad called Bob Casey who is captain of London Irish and he's 6'10". Guess what he is from Maynooth! We are allowed include him in a squad ahead of Munsters third choice second row.
Lads I'm very worried about the English match now. It's France's Grand Slam at this stage, serious bench as well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Rudi on February 14, 2010, 09:43:39 PM
Casey should be on the team, never mind the bench. P. Wallace  and R O Gara have no physicality. We have no options at scrum half. Trimble to start at 11, Earls at fullback, Wallace off the squad with Horgan to come in as cover.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: bcarrier on February 14, 2010, 09:56:36 PM
Strange game ..until harry made his burst upfield we were on top. no wholesale changes for me. SJ of sunday times article pinned on back of dressing room door and same team if available ( possibly Jon Sexton if fully fit - please no reddan) .

I was there and it was unbelievably cold - i know these guys are professional but it was scrape snow of seats/ numb fingers kinda day - a factor in number of handling errors. Why do rugby players not wear gloves ? Do gloves make it look like gouging when you arent ?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Master Yoda on February 15, 2010, 09:22:30 AM

i have to say we were very unlucky today.



So over all a few key mistakes and bits of bad luck and indiscipline cost us a lot. We also need to get bigger and really can't afford to have so many of these amateur type physiques like O'Gara, Cullen and Wallace on the park at any one time.



Ireland were most certainly not unlucky and were well beaten. The score-line is reflective of the match. France were much superior.

The only Irish players emerging with any credit from that game were Darcy, O'Connell and possibly Ferris.


Thought O'Connell was poor myself, knocked the ball on at least 3 times maybe 4.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 15, 2010, 10:20:43 AM
I still have to say if Darcy scores, the whole game changes, no irish scrum under pressure down to 7 men and resulting try, no need to not kick a penalty just before half time. No need for Jerry Flannery to be frustrated and lash out at the French man. Cian Healy yellow card, no Jauzin try. The French have to find their own way into the game which really they were not able to do until the last quarter.

Luck, timing, mistakes, and indiscipline all conspired against Ireland yesterday. It was not simply a case of france were great, Ireland were rubbish.

Save for one scrum the Irish front row were mullered.

Yes there were plenty of mistakes and ill discilpline but Ireland were beaten by a much superior team in all facets of the game (save for the line-out). To say that luck conspired against Ireland in this game is pure fantasy.

Should be about 4/5 changes fro England game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 15, 2010, 12:03:46 PM
Alot of over-reaction here. You'd think we got beat at home to Italy by 50 points. Re-watch the game before calling for 20 heads to roll. Watched the match yesterday as I was working during the live showing. First 15/20 minutes were great from an irish perspective and we were applying all the pressure. Kidney had called the game right and O'Gara's/BOD's kicks were pinning back the French into their half were they couldn't do any damage and where Irish pressure could produce mistakes. Admitedly as the game progressed and we were chasing the game the kicking strategy from Ireland was not productive.

As for Darcy, If you were to be critical you could say he kicked too early and a later kick would have facilitated a easier catch. However that's nit-picking and he was unlucky, lack of support didn't help, he shouldn't have been expected to finish it having made the initial break. I don't think he could have stepped as it would have slowed him down to much, meaning another french man would have caught him and also the defender was positioned well meaning it would have been harder.

The games turning point was the yellow card and the should have been red card. Flannery's actions have no justification and should have been red. In his defence he almost certainly didn't mean it as such a rash and unthinkable action only comes from a complete header. I think he decided to hack the ball when it was bouncing on the ground and at the point the frenchman collected the ball he somehow (and I don't know how) forgot to readjust and followed through. Actually trying to reason with that incident is pointless, scratch all that, could have been one of a thousands things.

I disagree with the wholesale changes argument as well. It would only cause to damage confidence, fracture the team and lead to a defeat. Their will be changes amongst those not fit to continue though. The front-row is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. It should be shored up somehow until season's end. Easier said than done though. I don't like Reddan's play but I now realise I dislike O'Leary's more, he's a liabilty at scrum half and is blunting alot of our attacks. Ponderous at the ruck, poor box kicks and high/low passing out the outhalf is stifling our attacking game. A nice 4th back-rower he may be but he's not up for this. Having studied under KIdney however he will not be called ashore. We also need a Dempsey-esque fullback in the kicking era that is prevailing. Who is our choices at FB?? Any chance of Hurley to tide us over a few games?? Apart from that I don't think we played that bad on Sat. The yellow card was the kliller. Until that point we had conceeded no try to the French and we looked the most likely to score. It destroyed the game plan and after that point the game was effectively up.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: longrunsthefox on February 15, 2010, 12:50:18 PM
I didn't read all that Trillick man but got the jist of it and totally agree. I thought Hook and the gang and the general reaction to the defeat is so over the top. That is typical in this country, either hyping a team as world beaters or hammering them.. no middle ground, same in GAA.
Can't be a rubbish team overnight and I think they'll bounce back and win the Triple Crown. England were typically overhyped after Wales game and at home should have enough for Wales (cud be tough tho) and Scotland. Keep the faith! 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Maiden1 on February 15, 2010, 01:04:56 PM
Every time O'Gara gets the ball instead of passing it on he tries a sidestep to go through the other teams pack like he is Brian O'Driscoll.  He is neither fast enough or strong enough to do that.  He usually gets caught and lifted like a rag doll by a couple of 20 stone men and dumped on his ass about 10 meters back and the ball ripped out.  If he is to play he should stay out of the road and concentrate on kicking the ball into touch or between the posts.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on February 15, 2010, 01:27:31 PM
There's no need for wholesale changes, but looking at form, then Hayes and O'Leary must be due to the big chop out of the 22, while Bowe, O'Gara and Flannery might drop out of the team if their natural replacements are up for it. Take out the injured Kearney and that's 6 possible/probable changes. Gavin Duffy would be worth looking at for full-back. Given that a 6N title is effectively gone, I don't see the point in returning to Murphy or Dempsey.

If Paddy Wallace must be the replacement three-quarters, then I'd suggest that Boss should be on the bench to cover no.9, as he can at least fill in across the three-quarters as well.

I'd also suggest that a proper groundhog openside should be on the bench for those games when Wallace's attacking instincts are kept on the back foot. Jennings would be the best option.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 15, 2010, 01:34:16 PM
No surprise here :


Ireland's Jerry Flannery has been cited for his lunge on Alexis Palisson in Saturday's RBS 6 Nations defeat by France.

Flannery could be facing a lengthy ban after appearing to kick at Palisson in the 23rd minute.
The Munster hooker escaped with a penalty but could have been sent off for a poor challenge on the France winger, who limped off with a dead leg shortly after.


The citing will be heard this week
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - France v Ireland, 13 February 2010
Post by: J OGorman on February 15, 2010, 01:41:22 PM
Irish rugby came back down to earth with a bang last night. We're nowhere near the level some of the journalists were telling us we were.

going unbeaten in 2009, winning the grand slam, drawing with Australia and beating the world champions told us were we are as a rugby team, not journalists. Paris is a hooer of a place to get a result, just ask any of the top southern hemisphere teams

roll on Twickers!!

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2010, 02:08:16 PM
Was disappointed in the match. Save the lineout we were pretty much destroyed in every facet.

For a team with such superiority in the lineout AND France using the blitz, why did Ireland not utilise O'Gara as one of the best tactical kickers in the game and kick for touch the whole game. It was the only way we could survive. Also the lack of chip kicks annoyed me as well when it was evident the Scottish got a bit of success from it last week.

Other than that we made too many mistakes i.e. a criminal amount of knock ons. . . I would expect to see some changes to keep lads on their toes namely Healy, Flannery, Cullen, O'Leary, O'Gara and Earls making way for Horan, Best, O'Callaghan, Reddan, Sexton and Trimble.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 15, 2010, 02:14:28 PM
Irish rugby came back down to earth with a bang last night. We're nowhere near the level some of the journalists were telling us we were.

going unbeaten in 2009, winning the grand slam, drawing with Australia and beating the world champions told us were we are as a rugby team, not journalists. Paris is a hooer of a place to get a result, just ask any of the top southern hemisphere teams

roll on Twickers!!



Yea I agree totally
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 15, 2010, 02:24:25 PM
Ireland were unlucky on Saturday.  Unlucky in the sense that when they were on top and had chances to score (especially in the first half) they didn't take them and luck had a good bit to do with it.  D'arcy's chip was desperatley unlucky - how many times have you seen the bounce just come up into the attackers hands instead it hit the post and the Frogs got away with it.  Same with the end of the first half, O'Connell knocked on when the line was at Ireland's mercy (when did that ever happen before)

Healy had to go for a professional foul and only for him being off the field Flannery would have certainly got a yellow too.  That was a big changing point in the game.  Ireland had a penalty in the middle of the field which was then reversed.  Had that remained in Ireland's favour, ROG kicks for the corner and with a powerful lineout we could have wound the clock down a brave bit in the right end of the pitch till Healy came on but sure it wasn't to be....

I wonder given his performances for the A's would Duffy be an option for full back?  And again since the lad plays (and plays well too) would Johne Murphy get a look in for the match day 22?   Would it be harsh to say that Earls looked very light on Saturday but I suppose he plays well in Heineken Cup and isn't too light there.

I am a wee bit disappointed about the leadership on saturday too.  We started to force the game far too much from poor positions too early in the second half.  Would a game play of 10 - 15 mins of kicking the corners and putting pressure on the French line out been a better option?  We'll never know.

I believe England didn't set the world alight yesterday in Rome, hard to know what way to take that.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 15, 2010, 02:47:13 PM
Six Nations related - fairly funny too!!


Powell drives his way into police trouble


Wales forward Andy Powell was arrested after driving a golf buggy towards a motorway hours after defeating Scotland in a thrilling Six Nations match, sources revealed on Sunday.

Back row forward Powell, 28, was arrested with another 28-year-old man at a service station near junction 34 of the M4 motorway, close to the spa hotel in the Vale of Glamorgan where the Wales team were staying.

Inspector Tony McAlinden, of South Wales Police, said: 'I can confirm that two 28-year-old males were arrested on suspicion of taking and driving away a golf cart.

'One of the males subsequently failed a breathalyser.'

The identity of the other man is not known and police would not confirm who failed the breathalyser. The men did not drive the buggy on to the motorway.

Both men are from the Brecon area of mid Wales, police said.

The four-star Vale Hotel, Golf and Spa Resort in Hensol is the official hotel used by the Wales squad where they train and host press conferences.

The Welsh Rugby Union issued the following statement: 'The WRU is aware of a Police investigation into an incident involving the player Andy Powell and is monitoring its progress.

'The national squad views matters of player conduct extremely seriously. Members of the national squad management will formally speak to the player before any futher statement is issued.

'The WRU has advised the player on the opportunities he can consider for legal representation at this stage.'
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 15, 2010, 02:48:35 PM
And as expected he gets booted into touch from the squad....


Shamed Powell dumped from Welsh squad


Wales have dropped Andy Powell from their 35-man RBS 6 Nations squad with immediate effect.

Powell is due to appear in court next month charged with drink-driving after he was arrested with a golf buggy at motorway services.

Back row forward Powell, 28, was arrested early yesterday, hours after his team beat Scotland 31-24 at the Millennium Stadium.

Wales decided that Powell should be suspended from the squad for 'behaviour contrary to the squad's code of conduct'.

He was detained with another 28-year-old man at the service station near junction 33 of the M4 motorway, close to the spa hotel in the Vale of Glamorgan where his team were staying.

South Wales Police said Powell was charged with 'driving a mechanically propelled vehicle whilst unfit through drink'.

Alan Phillips, Wales' team manager, admitted his behaviour was unacceptable and gave no indication of when he would return to the squad.

'We take matters of player conduct extremely seriously and have been happy with the professionalism and discipline of this squad in general terms,' said Phillips.

'Andy knows he has misbehaved and is apologetic, but he also knows that he must take responsibility for his own actions and accept the repercussions.

'This kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated in a professional, elite sporting environment and we have acted quickly and incisively in order to leave no ambiguity over the dim view we take of this situation.

'The player has made his private apologies to the Welsh management team as well as apologising in a public statement and we have also asked him to apologise to the Vale Resort Hotel, before asking him to leave the squad.

'We will now leave the South Wales Police service to conclude the matter and we will be making no further public statements at this time.'

Wales have declined to call up a replacement for Powell, who has won 14 caps for his country and toured with the British Lions squad to South Africa.

He has played regional rugby for Cardiff Blues since 2005, after joining from the Llanelli Scarlets. He has also played for Beziers, Leicester and Newport.

He is due to appear at Cardiff Magistrates' Court on March 2.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 15, 2010, 03:39:18 PM
Luck had no part in that game, 3 positions are key in the modern game, Tight-head, scrum-half and out-half. In those three positions we were very poor. After the Italy game it was the right thing to start O'Gara it was the wrong decision to leave him on after 40 mins and I know Kearney's injury would have had a influence in that (The bench selection was completely off, one subsitution should not result in three changes to a team).

If it was me a would cull Hayes and O'Gara now completely from the squad, no room for sentiment and we will not win another 6 nations with either of those two in the side not to mention World Cups. Talking of World Cups I would use the remaing three games, the summer tour and autumn international to build a squad that can go and try and win the World Cup next year. It will be a harsh learning curve but the rewards could be massive. We have nothing to lose.

Getting back to the game, I talked previously about rugby intelligence and how Ireland had the edge, I suppose what didn't come into my reckoning was how stupid Cian Healy and Jerry Flannery are, Healy will never be the brightest that's just genetic but wtf was Flannery at, they shifted the whole dynamic of that game in France's favour, instead of making France chase the game, they gifted them the lead. France are front-runners, they don't like chasing games, the other moment of madness was O'Leary before half-time - any score before half-time is a good score - puts the tidiest seed of doubt in the oppositions mind and gives your our side a liitle belief.

Overall France deserved that margin of victory and I had a lot of man love for Harinordoquy, favourite French player since Olivier Magne.

My team to start against England

Horan
Best
Court
Ryan
O'Connell
Ferris
O'Brien
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Trimble
Wallace
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney
would agree with that and I was thinking of a team almost exactly on those lines
only question would be ryan at second row...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hound on February 15, 2010, 03:57:08 PM
Don't know how anyone could pick Wallace ahead of D'arcy.

Ryan needs to replace O'Callaghan at Munster before he becomes first choice for Ireland. My current ranking at lock is 1.O'Connell, 2. Casey, 3. Cullen, 4. O'Callaghan, 5. Ryan. But Casey is not getting a look in, so I'd definitely stick with Cullen who has been doing well.

To me, our scrum seemed to struggle more when Court was in. Albeit he'll only improve with games. I'd probably alternate Healy and Horan, playing Healy against the really strong front rows and Horan against the average ones.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 15, 2010, 04:43:15 PM
Quote
Don't know how anyone could pick Wallace ahead of D'arcy.

Because he's a better footballer than D'Arcy, D'Arcy is one dimensional, he has quick feet and stays on them long enough to give the backrow a target, he can't disribute and and he can't off-load. I'd never play O'Gara and Wallace but I think Sexton and Wallace have a nice blend, a 1st and 2nd 5/8.

Also Ryan is a better all round player than O'Callagahan, O'Callaghan is a road sweeper and every team needs them but with a WC in mind I'd blood Ryan now now. He should have left Munster a long time ago.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 15, 2010, 04:52:27 PM
The great Wallace/D'Arcy debate!!

This time last year I'd have been a D'Arcy man every time but I'm starting to come round to Wallace. Yes D'Arcy is a blood and thunder Centre going head on at lads trying to make the hard yards and hard tackles which does tend to please the crowd but Wallace is a much more clever and skillfull player with some neat kicks and a good range of passing and offloading in the tackle which can sometimes create something out of nothing.

In my opinion both of them have their merits but I'd nearly use them in different situations. D'Arcy against Wales, Italy, England with maybe perceived weaker defences. Then I'd go with Wallace against the tighter ones like Scotland and France and look for him to do something different to get you into the game. Many arguments for both I'd say though.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 15, 2010, 04:53:36 PM
Quote
Don't know how anyone could pick Wallace ahead of D'arcy.

Because he's a better footballer than D'Arcy, D'Arcy is one dimensional, he has quick feet and stays on them long enough to give the backrow a target, he can't disribute and and he can't off-load. I'd never play O'Gara and Wallace but I think Sexton and Wallace have a nice blend, a 1st and 2nd 5/8.

Also Ryan is a better all round player than O'Callagahan, O'Callaghan is a road sweeper and every team needs them but with a WC in mind I'd blood Ryan now now. He should have left Munster a long time ago.
Nice urgency!!  :D
Agreed with the comment about O'Gara Wallace. Wallace gets the best out of a back line I believe. I think our back 3 + BOD can cause problems and is a real threat. We are not Italy or England who are limited by what they can do out wide. We need a 12 who can help open the game up for us to exploit.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 15, 2010, 04:59:21 PM
The great Wallace/D'Arcy debate!!

This time last year I'd have been a D'Arcy man every time but I'm starting to come round to Wallace. Yes D'Arcy is a blood and thunder Centre going head on at lads trying to make the hard yards and hard tackles which does tend to please the crowd but Wallace is a much more clever and skillfull player with some neat kicks and a good range of passing and offloading in the tackle which can sometimes create something out of nothing.

In my opinion both of them have their merits but I'd nearly use them in different situations. D'Arcy against Wales, Italy, England with maybe perceived weaker defences. Then I'd go with Wallace against the tighter ones like Scotland and France and look for him to do something different to get you into the game. Many arguments for both I'd say though.
I had the opposite thinking last year about it but I never consider horses for courses.
My reasoning was that O Leary could, to a certain degree, cover both O'Gara and Wallace's defensive lapses whilst the O'Gara Wallace combination had the ability to unlock defence with good distrubution.
The flipside was a Stringer/Rog combination allowed us to spread it quick as well but Wallace couldn't be accomodated in such a weak defence an Darcy was required to beef it up. In effect it was a choice between playing Stringer and Darcy or O'leary and Wallace. Of course that has changed now but you could propose that Reddan is the new stringer.

Edit: I meant " but I never considered it as horses for courses"
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 15, 2010, 05:01:46 PM
Quote
Don't know how anyone could pick Wallace ahead of D'arcy.

Because he's a better footballer than D'Arcy, D'Arcy is one dimensional, he has quick feet and stays on them long enough to give the backrow a target, he can't disribute and and he can't off-load. I'd never play O'Gara and Wallace but I think Sexton and Wallace have a nice blend, a 1st and 2nd 5/8.



There is merit in that argument and Wallace is a good footballer with a good defence (contrary to what some believe).

However D'arcy is a better attacking option and is just that bit more incisive.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 15, 2010, 05:27:59 PM
Yea I'd agree with horses for courses, International Rugby is about your squad and how you utilise it, that was an EOS failing and I hope Kidney doesn't fall into that trap.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Aaron Boone on February 15, 2010, 09:42:09 PM
The Triple Crown is still out there to be won:

England 23 times (last 03)
Wales 19 (last 08)
Ireland 10 (last 09)
Scotland 10 (last 1990 :-\)

 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hound on February 16, 2010, 08:34:13 AM
While Wallace did nothing wrong on Saturday, I thought our back line looked a lot stronger when D'arcy was in at 12, but that may have been down to making 3 changes when Kearney went off.

What about full back if Kearney doesn't make it, and let's assume Geordan Murphy isn't fit enough either?

IMO Earls has proven time and again that he's not up to being a full back at Heineken Cup level, never mind international level.
Of course there is nobody else who has proven to be. Pity Felix Jones has been injured so much this year as he has lots of potential. Personally, I don't think Gavin Duffy is good enough.

Would any of Wallace, D'arcy, Sexton, Bowe be realistic options?  Playing any of them v England would be a gamble of course, but less of a gamble that throwing Earls in there again. My inclination would be to go for Sexton.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 16, 2010, 12:00:28 PM
Was disappointed in the match. Save the lineout we were pretty much destroyed in every facet.

For a team with such superiority in the lineout AND France using the blitz, why did Ireland not utilise O'Gara as one of the best tactical kickers in the game and kick for touch the whole game. It was the only way we could survive. Also the lack of chip kicks annoyed me as well when it was evident the Scottish got a bit of success from it last week.


[/quot

Spot on. I have no idea why we played the way we did after going a few points down when plan A was working so well. It was luck and indiscipline that caused us to be 14 points down.

By the way the French or Parra would not have scored a try when Healy tugged him back. He was about to be tackled by the full back and would probably not have got a pass away. It was bloody stupird and costly.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 16, 2010, 12:14:03 PM
In relation to Wallace v Darcy and Cullen v O'Callaghan. All these lads are roughly speaking the same age and are coming to the end of their careers. wallace and O'Callaghan were on the under 19 world cup winning team with O'Driscoll. Wallace never really delivered on his potential and just hung around the Ulster set up going nowhere. O'Callaghan and darcy so were automatic selections in the Irish team for the best part of the last decade and rightly so given their abilities and the level of competition for places in centre and second row(bob casey excluded from that contest).

There has never really been any doubt that O'Callaghan and darcy were streets ahead of Cullen and Wallace. Now things have changed a little , Cullen and Wallace have mature a bit and are still hungry for Ireland caps. This won't change the fact that O'Callaghan and Darcy are in a different class to the 2 pretenders if they still have the motivation and are match fitness. You can't write them off just yet and need to think about what you are doing dropping them for mutton dressed up as lamb.

I would hope there are younger players coming through who it might be worth while giving game time to in the rest of the championship. At centre there are players like Cave from Ulster, Macken from Leinster who might well be up to it. In the second row there is Donnacha Ryand and Devin Toner. If it is of the future we are thinking then these players would be the ones I would be looking to.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: ha ha derry on February 16, 2010, 12:24:18 PM
I know i,m going to get laughed at again but O Leary is not the man for scrum half. At ruck time he,s usually stuck at the bottom pretending to be a back row forward, so providing slow ball. Then there,s his box kicking  :-\.
Reddan is not yer man either unless Ireland play an orangutang at out half.
Peter Stringer is aggressive, quick hands and gets the out half playing up on the line where he should be to bring the rest of the backs on to the ball at pace.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on February 16, 2010, 12:41:02 PM
Peter Stringer is a horribly limited, one-dimensional, out of form, and should never wear the Munster jersey again let alone the Irish one.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: turk on February 16, 2010, 12:49:42 PM
The Triple Crown is still out there to be won:

England 23 times (last 03)
Wales 19 (last 08)
Ireland 10 (last 09)
Scotland 10 (last 1990 :-\ )

 

That sort of talk is just wrong!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: ha ha derry on February 16, 2010, 12:51:12 PM
Peter Stringer is a horribly limited, one-dimensional, out of form, and should never wear the Munster jersey again let alone the Irish one.
In your opinion. Not the overwhelming opinion of a lot of Munster supporters.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 16, 2010, 12:52:50 PM
Stringer, Cullen and Wallace are not the solution. Time to turn over to a new page for Irish rugby.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 16, 2010, 01:10:08 PM
Anyone who saw Stringer play in the recent A internationals would not be advocating him for the first team. He was absolutely abysmal against the England Saxons and only a bit better against Scotland a week later. I don't think Reddan is the answer either. He seems too prone to making stupid decisions. The form scrum-half in Ireland is probably Isaac Boss. Has been playing consistently well for Ulster and played well both times after coming on in the two A games. Hard to see him being promoted from the bench of the A's to start for the first team though.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 16, 2010, 01:49:49 PM
if redden could recapture the form he had with wasps then he would be the man. boss has looked v poor at international level in his fleeting appearances.
darcy for me is just too small, every year people run over him - last week no exception. He is game, but thats not enough.
Maybe cave should be promoted or bowe brought in from the wing
devan toner is too inexperienced yet, but the good news is that he punched a guy the other week so his aggression levels are improving... a couple of years away yet

I'd try wallace at full back
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 16, 2010, 02:26:43 PM
if redden could recapture the form he had with wasps then he would be the man. boss has looked v poor at international level in his fleeting appearances.
darcy for me is just too small, every year people run over him - last week no exception. He is game, but thats not enough.
Maybe cave should be promoted or bowe brought in from the wing
devan toner is too inexperienced yet, but the good news is that he punched a guy the other week so his aggression levels are improving... a couple of years away yet

I'd try wallace at full back

Jaysus no keep one of the best wingers in the world in the past 12 months on the wing...  Don't think about moving him.

What about Duffy at full back?  Heard he was very impressive against England Saxons a couple of weeks ago
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2010, 02:53:46 PM
Stringer, Cullen and Wallace are not the solution. Time to turn over to a new page for Irish rugby.

Agreed. Those 3 and Casey are at the wrong end of their careers. Casey almost certainly deserved more caps but that is the past. If O'Callaghan is fit he will play, if not time to look at younger guys.

There is a reason why O'Callaghan went on 2 Lions tours and made the test team in one of them. He is your bread and butter man but he is very experienced and is as good as we have at that role.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 16, 2010, 03:29:26 PM
darcy for me is just too small, every year people run over him - last week no exception. He is game, but thats not enough.

D'Arcy has probably been Ireland's best player so far in the 6 Nations and is playing the best he has done for a while. Has come back brilliantly from a badly broken arm.

Quote
I'd try wallace at full back

Paddy Wallace is a 12 and a 10 in emergencies. I don't think he's played full-back since he was about 20 or 21 which was a long time ago. Granted he can kick fine but he would neither have the pace of the fielding ability to do much from full-back anymore.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 16, 2010, 04:06:46 PM
Very interesting article from the pen or keystrokes of brendan Cole from rte.ie - who I enjoy reading...  he really examines the whole tight 5 and compares the Irish thinking behind it to other nations and certainly has a few "outside the box" potential answers!!

http://www.rte.ie/ie/sportsixnations2010/entry/ireland
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 16, 2010, 04:13:40 PM
darcy for me is just too small, every year people run over him - last week no exception. He is game, but thats not enough.

D'Arcy has probably been Ireland's best player so far in the 6 Nations and is playing the best he has done for a while. Has come back brilliantly from a badly broken arm.

Quote
I'd try wallace at full back

Paddy Wallace is a 12 and a 10 in emergencies. I don't think he's played full-back since he was about 20 or 21 which was a long time ago. Granted he can kick fine but he would neither have the pace of the fielding ability to do much from full-back anymore.
just never thought darcy was good enough - always tought he was too small and while he makes a few good breaks, his tackling often leads to scores from opponents because he is just too small.
Also was way too selfish as a schools cup player and never lost that trait.

point taken about wallace - theres not much of a viable alternative at full back , I knew wallace had played thee years ago, didnt think it was quite that long ago though !
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 16, 2010, 07:31:36 PM
I had the dubious pleasure of being there on Saturday. The result is a welcome wake up call for Ireland and a reminder of where the team really stands.
 
I'm not sure how it looked on tv, but the biggest difference to me was the aggression and physicality of the French. The way they smashed Ireland at times reminded me of what they did to South Africa in November. They sufficiently rattled Ireland to induce some of the inexplicable basic errors that lead to the scores.
 
Another big problem was that Ireland were too often working off slow ball. O'Leary is not the snappiest of passers, but this was worsened by him seemingly waiting for other players to get into formation before delivering. Contrast this to the French mentality - they play off the cuff, take risks, improvise and invent as they go along. Ireland seem too concerned with implementing pre-meditated moves and patterns.
 
Ireland's lack of aggression at the breakdown doesn't help. Wallace and Heaslip in the back row are decent ball carriers and decent  operators in the loose, but they aren't brutish. That so much stock was placed on Ferris being fit beforehand, shows how Ireland are short in this regard. Ireland really need to do much better in slowing down the opposition ball and speeding up their own re-cycling.

The nature of the performance may prove a blessing for Ireland. Kidney now has a mandate to change the team around. He doesn't have to keep any unbeaten run going and Ireland are not contenders for this year's 6 Nations. Building for WC2011 now has to be the main aim. I remember England getting a similar shock in Paris back in 2002 when they reckoned they were they number 1 team in the world. 18 months later, they proved that beyond all doubt.
 
At this moment, Ireland's pack is too weak to play 10 man rugby and the team can't move the ball quickly enough and flat enough to play 15 man rugby. Looking at it another way, last year's Grand Slam was a good achievement because it came from grinding out results without playing much good rugby.

Kidney can now give players like Sexton, Ryan, Best, Court, O'Brien and an alternative scrum half a decent run with less pressure to go back to the "old reliables" if they don't perform straight away. As it stands Ireland wouldn't be at the races in the next WC with the 15 that started last weekend. I suspect Kidney probably knew that all along though and had a long term aim to phase certain players out of the team. That aspect of his job should be a bit easier now.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on February 16, 2010, 09:55:57 PM

The nature of the performance may prove a blessing for Ireland. Kidney now has a mandate to change the team around. He doesn't have to keep any unbeaten run going and Ireland are not contenders for this year's 6 Nations. Building for WC2011 now has to be the main aim. I remember England getting a similar shock in Paris back in 2002 when they reckoned they were they number 1 team in the world. 18 months later, they proved that beyond all doubt.
 


I agree with nearly all of that post, but I can't understand the highlighted bit. How can one defeat spell the end of a championship bid entirely? Naturally France are favourites, but they are in Cardiff next, and that's not a gimme. They will also struggle with England, because they won't bully the English pack.

Ireland are 3rd favourites at the moment, but I don't think this championship will be won with a grand slam. If Ireland win in Twickenham next up, and Wales do the French in Cardiff, it's game on again with 4 teams with 1 defeat. That's not inconceivable.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 16, 2010, 10:10:05 PM
the next 3 games is the time to experiment definately. we cant defend our crown, so lets build on re-gaining it in 2011, along with winning the world cup (maybe im looking too much am i ? )
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 16, 2010, 10:16:42 PM
Posted earlier on that now is the time to rebuild as well. The WC is winnable imho.

Gavin Duffy is the only remaining full back in the squad, expect him to start. I rue Felix Jone's injury as well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 16, 2010, 10:28:00 PM
Posted earlier on that now is the time to rebuild as well. The WC is winnable imho.

Gavin Duffy is the only remaining full back in the squad, expect him to start. I rue Felix Jone's injury as well.

i said that to someone at the weekend and got laughed out of the place ! it isn't that crazy a suggestion.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Onlooker on February 16, 2010, 10:30:13 PM
Come on lads.  Ireland have 2 chances of winning the World Cup (slim and none) and Slim has gone home.  For the World Cup we are quarter final material.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2010, 10:36:27 PM
Come on lads.  Ireland have 2 chances of winning the World Cup (slim and none) and Slim has gone home.  For the World Cup we are quarter final material.

A Mick McMediocrity fan?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 16, 2010, 10:44:10 PM
Come on lads.  Ireland have 2 chances of winning the World Cup (slim and none) and Slim has gone home.  For the World Cup we are quarter final material.

A Mick McMediocrity fan?

No a Mayo fan. Same thing i suppose !
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 17, 2010, 12:00:47 AM
First up, we are still alive in this championship. This woolly thinking inflicted on us by the media that we are completely knocked out is totally false. IF wales beat France with a bit to spare and we beat England and then wales with a bit to spare, we are back in poll position with Scotland to play at home in the final game.

The world cup is winnable and it was the last time as well when we collapsed for an as of yet to be explained reason. we need to go into it positively an with our best experienced players like England had in 2003. Our chances are very good if we hit the ground running and play to the best of our ability while avoiding injuries.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 17, 2010, 12:57:44 AM
the next 3 games is the time to experiment definately. we cant defend our crown, so lets build on re-gaining it in 2011, along with winning the world cup (maybe im looking too much am i ? )
Away to England and at home to Wales?
Fcuk no!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 17, 2010, 07:49:32 AM

The nature of the performance may prove a blessing for Ireland. Kidney now has a mandate to change the team around. He doesn't have to keep any unbeaten run going and Ireland are not contenders for this year's 6 Nations. Building for WC2011 now has to be the main aim. I remember England getting a similar shock in Paris back in 2002 when they reckoned they were they number 1 team in the world. 18 months later, they proved that beyond all doubt.


I agree with nearly all of that post, but I can't understand the highlighted bit. How can one defeat spell the end of a championship bid entirely? Naturally France are favourites, but they are in Cardiff next, and that's not a gimme. They will also struggle with England, because they won't bully the English pack.

Ireland are 3rd favourites at the moment, but I don't think this championship will be won with a grand slam. If Ireland win in Twickenham next up, and Wales do the French in Cardiff, it's game on again with 4 teams with 1 defeat. That's not inconceivable.

Points difference is the biggest problem now.
France would have to do more than lose a game, they'd have to be whupped. Or else Ireland cutting lose and start scoring tries and winning big which is unlikely.
The French have England in Paris too, so really the mis-firing Welsh would be their biggest threat.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Olaf on February 17, 2010, 09:50:51 AM
I had the dubious pleasure of being there on Saturday. The result is a welcome wake up call for Ireland and a reminder of where the team really stands.
 
I'm not sure how it looked on tv, but the biggest difference to me was the aggression and physicality of the French. The way they smashed Ireland at times reminded me of what they did to South Africa in November. They sufficiently rattled Ireland to induce some of the inexplicable basic errors that lead to the scores.
 
Another big problem was that Ireland were too often working off slow ball. O'Leary is not the snappiest of passers, but this was worsened by him seemingly waiting for other players to get into formation before delivering. Contrast this to the French mentality - they play off the cuff, take risks, improvise and invent as they go along. Ireland seem too concerned with implementing pre-meditated moves and patterns.
 
Ireland's lack of aggression at the breakdown doesn't help. Wallace and Heaslip in the back row are decent ball carriers and decent  operators in the loose, but they aren't brutish. That so much stock was placed on Ferris being fit beforehand, shows how Ireland are short in this regard. Ireland really need to do much better in slowing down the opposition ball and speeding up their own re-cycling.

The nature of the performance may prove a blessing for Ireland. Kidney now has a mandate to change the team around. He doesn't have to keep any unbeaten run going and Ireland are not contenders for this year's 6 Nations. Building for WC2011 now has to be the main aim. I remember England getting a similar shock in Paris back in 2002 when they reckoned they were they number 1 team in the world. 18 months later, they proved that beyond all doubt.
 
At this moment, Ireland's pack is too weak to play 10 man rugby and the team can't move the ball quickly enough and flat enough to play 15 man rugby. Looking at it another way, last year's Grand Slam was a good achievement because it came from grinding out results without playing much good rugby.

Kidney can now give players like Sexton, Ryan, Best, Court, O'Brien and an alternative scrum half a decent run with less pressure to go back to the "old reliables" if they don't perform straight away. As it stands Ireland wouldn't be at the races in the next WC with the 15 that started last weekend. I suspect Kidney probably knew that all along though and had a long term aim to phase certain players out of the team. That aspect of his job should be a bit easier now.

Spot on. It is a pity though that we have to wait for a comprehensive defeat before the management feel that they can move on this.

The evidence in a few positions (paricularly half backs and front row)  has been there for the last 3 years or so.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: muppet on February 17, 2010, 11:48:39 AM
Come on lads.  Ireland have 2 chances of winning the World Cup (slim and none) and Slim has gone home.  For the World Cup we are quarter final material.

A Mick McMediocrity fan?

No a Mayo fan. Same thing i suppose !

Couldn't be a true Mayo fan, we always think it's our year, right up until we wake up some Monday morning in August or September.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 17, 2010, 12:08:27 PM
First up, we are still alive in this championship. This woolly thinking inflicted on us by the media that we are completely knocked out is totally false. IF wales beat France with a bit to spare and we beat England and then wales with a bit to spare, we are back in poll position with Scotland to play at home in the final game.

Ireland have a chance if they win all their remaining games but it is very much an outside chance. France at most will lose one game and they still have Italy to play in Paris where they will likely rack up the points. And they already have a 37 point advantage over Ireland. That is too big a margin for Ireland to overcome to win the championship IMO.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 17, 2010, 12:25:09 PM
The Championship is still in the mix for Ireland definitely... France are the big favourites for it but still have to play Wales at home and England.   I do think Ireland will win their remaining games and Scotland have lost 3 of their starting backs last Saturday so I would be leaning towards a big winning margin there in the final game in Croke Park.  Out of our hands I know but in a sense the pressure will be off as in nothing to lose so I am looking forward to the last few games
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 17, 2010, 01:17:09 PM
Breaking News - Flannery banned for 6 weeks for kicking
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 17, 2010, 01:18:07 PM
As expected....  >:(

Flannery misses the rest of the Six Nations

Wednesday, 17 February 2010 13:14

Ireland hooker Jerry Flannery has been banned for six weeks for kicking France winger Alexis Palisson in last Saturday's RBS 6 Nations match in Paris, ruling him out of the remainder of the championship.


Flannery was fortunate only to concede a penalty after his wild swing connected with Palisson after the Montauban winger had picked up the ball.


Referee Wayne Barnes consulted his touch judge Stuart Terheege, who believed the challenge to be a 'shoulder charge', and so Flannery escaped a potential red card.


Best will obviously start now... Will Cronin or Fogarty make the bench now?  Either way it should provide them with good exprience
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 17, 2010, 01:24:08 PM
imo that will improve the Irish team (best starting at hooker that is)!

however if Best gets inj - could be a disaster for Ireland !
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 17, 2010, 02:13:35 PM
imo that will improve the Irish team (best starting at hooker that is)!

however if Best gets inj - could be a disaster for Ireland !

I agree with you there, Flannery just hasn't been as dynamic this year, probably lack of game time. I rate Cronin very highly and think he'll be able to step up without any worries.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 17, 2010, 02:14:39 PM
As expected....  >:(

Flannery misses the rest of the Six Nations

Wednesday, 17 February 2010 13:14

Ireland hooker Jerry Flannery has been banned for six weeks for kicking France winger Alexis Palisson in last Saturday's RBS 6 Nations match in Paris, ruling him out of the remainder of the championship.


Flannery was fortunate only to concede a penalty after his wild swing connected with Palisson after the Montauban winger had picked up the ball.


Referee Wayne Barnes consulted his touch judge Stuart Terheege, who believed the challenge to be a 'shoulder charge', and so Flannery escaped a potential red card.


Best will obviously start now... Will Cronin or Fogarty make the bench now?  Either way it should provide them with good exprience



6 weeks - got away handy enough.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 17, 2010, 02:21:34 PM
Ireland's Jerry Flannery will miss the rest of the RBS 6 Nations Championship after being suspended for six weeks for kicking France winger Alexis Palisson.

Flannery, who pleaded guilty and acknowledged the offence deserved a red card, has been banned until March 29, ruling him out of Ireland's fixtures against England, Wales and Scotland.

Wasnt a great action but at least fair play to him for that.

imo that will improve the Irish team (best starting at hooker that is)!

however if Best gets inj - could be a disaster for Ireland !

I agree with you there, Flannery just hasn't been as dynamic this year, probably lack of game time. I rate Cronin very highly and think he'll be able to step up without any worries.

I think Best is a mistake. He's a weakness in the lineout and will not improve the scrum enough to compensate. We can effectively kiss any superiority in the lineout we had goodbye. A bit more dynamic in the loose and the ruck than flannery but not enough in my opnion to be considered effective. Would love to see Cronin get his shot if he is as good as he is being made out. Have seen next to none of him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 17, 2010, 03:20:38 PM
Flannery could have got 6 months for that. Tommy Carr got a year for a lot less, similar tpye of kick.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: johnneycool on February 17, 2010, 03:46:06 PM
Flannery could have got 6 months for that. Tommy Carr got a year for a lot less, similar tpye of kick.

What club did tommy Carr play rugby for?

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 17, 2010, 03:58:20 PM
Sorry it is just hard to let go of some of these things.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 17, 2010, 06:43:45 PM
Come on lads.  Ireland have 2 chances of winning the World Cup (slim and none) and Slim has gone home.  For the World Cup we are quarter final material.
You don't have to be brilliant to make the semis or finals.
A middling Australian team got to extra time in the 2003 final - An Irish team with little ambition beyond edging out the Argies, were within a missed drop goal from beating them earlier in the tournament.
A not very brilliant England side got to the 2007 final only months after Ireland massacred them in Croke Park.

World Cup preparation should go in cycles. Ireland seem to hit into them like they are an unexpected speed bump between 6 nation tournaments.
Ireland can either go chasing a triple crown and an unlikely championship, or they can pull the plug on players who are unlikely to make an impact in 2011.

The choice now is to send players to a WC with almost two 6 nations campaigns under their belts, or make the changes at some future stage and have players on the starting 15 with only one campaign.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 17, 2010, 07:59:15 PM
The thing is we don't have high calibre players to be chopping and changing hoping to stumble across a winning formula. It doesn't work like that. What we have is an aging group of players that were or are potentially the best in the world or close to it when they play at the top of their game. O'Callaghan and Darcy fall into that category. Cullen and Wallace do not. That is not to say they are poor players or don't/won't have a role to play. Tom Court, Jennings, and others being mentioned to replace Hayes and Wallace won't take this team onto the next level either imho. We have to retain as much of our high quality players at their peak for the next world cup as we can.

It iis not all doom and gloom in terms of emerging players, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Bowe, Sexton, Earls and Trimble  are all good enough to play and compete at the highest level, as are Ferris and Heaslip in the backrow. O'Leary or Reddan are still overall a big upgrade at scrumhalf over Stringer. Just quit with the pick this guy, drop that guy rubbish, we are still in the 6 nations championship to win it or if not finish second and pick up a triple crown. We can not develop players to win a world cup by picking them to play against England. We need continuity and development, in the last game Earls was picked ahead of Horgan in part for development purposes, Ferris just back after injury and not at his best might have lost out to Quinlan if Kidney wasn't looking ahead.

We are in no way in a position to say f**k this for a game of marbles and start picking players from all over in the hope that one of them really steps up on the international stage and is all of a sudden a true star. That is what teams like Scotland have been doing for the last 10 years and going nowhere fast.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 17, 2010, 10:29:11 PM
The thing is we don't have high calibre players to be chopping and changing hoping to stumble across a winning formula. It doesn't work like that. What we have is an aging group of players that were or are potentially the best in the world or close to it when they play at the top of their game. O'Callaghan and Darcy fall into that category. Cullen and Wallace do not. That is not to say they are poor players or don't/won't have a role to play. Tom Court, Jennings, and others being mentioned to replace Hayes and Wallace won't take this team onto the next level either imho. We have to retain as much of our high quality players at their peak for the next world cup as we can.

It iis not all doom and gloom in terms of emerging players, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Bowe, Sexton, Earls and Trimble  are all good enough to play and compete at the highest level, as are Ferris and Heaslip in the backrow. O'Leary or Reddan are still overall a big upgrade at scrumhalf over Stringer. Just quit with the pick this guy, drop that guy rubbish, we are still in the 6 nations championship to win it or if not finish second and pick up a triple crown. We can not develop players to win a world cup by picking them to play against England. We need continuity and development, in the last game Earls was picked ahead of Horgan in part for development purposes, Ferris just back after injury and not at his best might have lost out to Quinlan if Kidney wasn't looking ahead.

We are in no way in a position to say f**k this for a game of marbles and start picking players from all over in the hope that one of them really steps up on the international stage and is all of a sudden a true star. That is what teams like Scotland have been doing for the last 10 years and going nowhere fast.
I wouldn't suggest chopping for the sake of it.
8 or 9 of the current team would hold their own on what a World Cup winning team might resemble.
I would just rather Kidney starts now picking what his WC2011 team might be instead of waiting until next year.

For example John Hayes will be almost 38 come the World Cup. All the signs are that he is in a decline that won't be reversed, so why wait until summer time or next year to look for a replacement?

The same with O'Gara who has been in decline since early 2007 with good performances becoming rarer. Even at his peak he made little impact on Southern Hemisphere tours or World Cups. So why waste time going through a charade of  gradually phasing Sexton into the team, when all the indicators are that Sexton is a more realistic WC prospect?

David Wallace will be 35 next year and by keeping him in the side you are essentially banking he'll still have his bullet pace which is his main asset.

Roll the dice and you might come up with a better scrum half and 2nd row partner for O'Connell. If O'Leary, Cullen or O'Callaghan are still the best options, then so be it.
Leaving the team alone is just postponing the inevitable.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 18, 2010, 05:47:12 PM
The thing is we don't have high calibre players to be chopping and changing hoping to stumble across a winning formula. It doesn't work like that. What we have is an aging group of players that were or are potentially the best in the world or close to it when they play at the top of their game. O'Callaghan and Darcy fall into that category. Cullen and Wallace do not. That is not to say they are poor players or don't/won't have a role to play. Tom Court, Jennings, and others being mentioned to replace Hayes and Wallace won't take this team onto the next level either imho. We have to retain as much of our high quality players at their peak for the next world cup as we can.

It iis not all doom and gloom in terms of emerging players, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Bowe, Sexton, Earls and Trimble  are all good enough to play and compete at the highest level, as are Ferris and Heaslip in the backrow. O'Leary or Reddan are still overall a big upgrade at scrumhalf over Stringer. Just quit with the pick this guy, drop that guy rubbish, we are still in the 6 nations championship to win it or if not finish second and pick up a triple crown. We can not develop players to win a world cup by picking them to play against England. We need continuity and development, in the last game Earls was picked ahead of Horgan in part for development purposes, Ferris just back after injury and not at his best might have lost out to Quinlan if Kidney wasn't looking ahead.

We are in no way in a position to say f**k this for a game of marbles and start picking players from all over in the hope that one of them really steps up on the international stage and is all of a sudden a true star. That is what teams like Scotland have been doing for the last 10 years and going nowhere fast.
I wouldn't suggest chopping for the sake of it.
8 or 9 of the current team would hold their own on what a World Cup winning team might resemble.
I would just rather Kidney starts now picking what his WC2011 team might be instead of waiting until next year.

For example John Hayes will be almost 38 come the World Cup. All the signs are that he is in a decline that won't be reversed, so why wait until summer time or next year to look for a replacement?

The same with O'Gara who has been in decline since early 2007 with good performances becoming rarer. Even at his peak he made little impact on Southern Hemisphere tours or World Cups. So why waste time going through a charade of  gradually phasing Sexton into the team, when all the indicators are that Sexton is a more realistic WC prospect?

David Wallace will be 35 next year and by keeping him in the side you are essentially banking he'll still have his bullet pace which is his main asset.

Roll the dice and you might come up with a better scrum half and 2nd row partner for O'Connell. If O'Leary, Cullen or O'Callaghan are still the best options, then so be it.
Leaving the team alone is just postponing the inevitable.

That could be argue that the whole team did the same not just ROG.

and would Wallace's main assest really be his pace, thought it would be his work on the ground at rucks and getting over the gain line in those last few hard yards
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: tyroneboi on February 19, 2010, 06:45:18 PM
Bit of a public spat going on between Ronan O'Gara and Kevin Myers of the Irish Independent:

Kevin Myers original article:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-its-an-irish-characteristic-we-are-comfortable--with-failure-its-a-familiar-condition-and-it-suits-us-2064681.html

ROG's response:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/ronan-ogara-why-i-refuse-to--be-scapegoated-by-kevin-myers-2070434.html

Edit: Just noticed there is a thread on this particular topic  :-[

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 19, 2010, 09:07:39 PM
David Wallace has been one of Irelands best players even though Eddie O'Sullivan wouldn't pick him for a couple of years and O'Connell, Wallace and even O'Gara get all the hype. Wallace deserves the spotlight an average enough performer like O'gara gets. So I would roll the dice with Wallace and hope he is still good enough in 18 months. He will be roughly the same age Neil Back was when he won his world cup with England and his main asset was his pace and his on the ground abiliity.

These guys like o'Driscoll and O'Connell and wallace and even O'Gara Hayes to a lesseer extent are a bit special and we should be doing everything we can to make sure they hang on till the next world cup. Of course that could mean not playing them in every game and trying out other players. If we get all these players to hang on it means we will be putting close to 15 world class performers out on the field as opposed to about 10 at the next world cup.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 23, 2010, 01:04:48 PM
Sexton in for O'Gara - dont know whole team yet
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 23, 2010, 01:15:38 PM

Jonathan Sexton handed Ireland start for England game


Jonathan Sexton will make his first Six Nations start in Saturday's clash against England after edging out Ronan O'Gara for Ireland's fly-half spot.

Sexton starred against South Africa in November but then sustained injury and O'Gara returned for the opening Six Nations games against Italy and France.

Geordan Murphy replaces injured Rob Kearney at full-back while Rory Best takes over from banned Jerry Flannery.

The other change sees fit-again Donncha O'Callaghan replacing Leo Cullen.

Cullen performed well against Italy and France but O'Callaghan returns to partner his Munster colleague Paul O'Connell at lock.

John Hayes will win his 100th Ireland cap in the Twickenham clash.

The 36-year-old will partner Best and Cian Healy in the front-row.

Tony Buckley replaces Tom Court in the replacements as prop cover although the Ulster player was troubled by injury last week.


With Ronan O'Gara on the bench, Paddy Wallace drops out of the Irish replacements.

Andrew Trimble returns to the Irish bench after being left out of the 22 man squad for the defeat in Paris.

The Ulster winger did start in Ireland's opening win over Italy.

The bench also includes Leo Cullen, Sean Cronin, Shane Jennings and Eoin Reddan.

Sexton's inclusion at fly-half is not a surprise after his impressive showing for Leinster in Saturday's Magners League win over the Scarlets.

The Leinster fly-half produced an impeccable display of place-kicking at the RDS and also scored a late try.

Murphy will earn his 64th Irish cap after making his last appearance as a replacement in the Grand Slam clinching win over Wales last March.

Ireland: G Murphy (Leicester), T Bowe (Ospreys), B O'Driscoll (Leinster) capt, G D'Arcy (Leinster), K Earls (Munster), J Sexton (Leinster), T O'Leary (Munster), C Healy (Leinster), Rory Best (Ulster), J Hayes (Munster), D O'Callaghan (Munster), P O'Connell (Munster), S Ferris (Ulster), D Wallace (Munster), J Heaslip (Leinster). Replacements: S Cronin (Connacht), T Buckley (Munster), L Cullen (Leinster), S Jennings (Leinster), E Reddan (Leinster), R O'Gara (Munster), A Trimble (Ulster)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 23, 2010, 01:20:33 PM
Cullen will feel very disappointed... Murphy was always gonna get the no. 15 jersey after a great performance at the weekend.  Thought Reddan would get in with Sexton as a duo but O'Leary probably deserves another shot after the ball coming to him in Paris was deseperately slow.   I wonder how bad Court's injury is - enough to prevent him being on the bench?? - because Buckley being named there ahead of him is a strange one.  Good chance that we will get a look at Cronin in a tough full blooded encounter.
Would like to see what impact Jennings has on the game when introduced and Wallace leaving the 22 must have been a tough enough call
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: magpie seanie on February 23, 2010, 01:28:14 PM
Cannot understand how O'Leary is still on that team. Good luck to Sexton receiving ball from him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 23, 2010, 02:11:33 PM
A big challenge ahead for Ireland in Twickenham this weekend - question : why are Ireland favourites ( if only slight ) for this game ???
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Rossie11 on February 23, 2010, 02:11:44 PM
Earls is the lucky one for me. Horgan should be in there ahead of him.
Crazy that he didnt even make the bench given his form this season and his past
form V England

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 23, 2010, 02:35:46 PM
A big challenge ahead for Ireland in Twickenham this weekend - question : why are Ireland favourites ( if only slight ) for this game ???

Well they have beaten England 5 out of the last 6 times with many of the same players and are current Grand Slam holders for a few more weeks anyway. England do have home advantage though so you could probably call it evens.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 23, 2010, 02:38:15 PM
Cannot understand how O'Leary is still on that team. Good luck to Sexton receiving ball from him.

Odds are the scum will be a better platform than last time out so that should improve the service to O'Leary firstly so we'll see how that works out then to Sexton
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 23, 2010, 02:48:38 PM
A big challenge ahead for Ireland in Twickenham this weekend - question : why are Ireland favourites ( if only slight ) for this game ???

Ireland are GS Champions and comparing England's form with Ireland's this past year would have Ireland probably big favourites. However, given that it's Twickenham and Ireland's poor performance against France Ireland are still favourites but only slightly. Plus Ireland have only lost once in the last 5 years or something.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: mackers on February 23, 2010, 03:24:46 PM
Cannot understand how O'Leary is still on that team. Good luck to Sexton receiving ball from him.

Odds are the scum will be a better platform than last time out so that should improve the service to O'Leary firstly so we'll see how that works out then to Sexton
That may be the case but he needs to get the ball away quicker to Sexton from rucks, he takes a f**king age to get the ball away. There's no point having an out half who will stand flat and draw defences if the scrum half won't give him quick ball. I presume he's picked because he's more physical than Reddan which will be important against a back English back row.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: magpie seanie on February 23, 2010, 04:32:28 PM
Cannot understand how O'Leary is still on that team. Good luck to Sexton receiving ball from him.

Odds are the scum will be a better platform than last time out so that should improve the service to O'Leary firstly so we'll see how that works out then to Sexton
That may be the case but he needs to get the ball away quicker to Sexton from rucks, he takes a f**king age to get the ball away. There's no point having an out half who will stand flat and draw defences if the scrum half won't give him quick ball. I presume he's picked because he's more physical than Reddan which will be important against a back English back row.


If he doesn't get the ball away quicker Sexton will be killed. O'Gara didn't sit deep just cos he felt like it. Reddan or even Stringer should have been picked to give Sexton a better chance of playing well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Main Street on February 23, 2010, 05:03:53 PM
A big day for Sexton and well deserved. He has a cultured finesse look about him, not unlike Tony Ward in his day.

Beating England in Twickenham is much more important than beating them in Dublin. This one is for all the Irish in exile.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 23, 2010, 05:16:18 PM
Pray to the heavens that neither Hayes or Healy get injured early doors.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 23, 2010, 06:48:10 PM
Logical enough selection. England will be trying to play a power game and won't be too concerned with getting it wide. So O'Leary will be kept busy tackling back row forwards. Reddan being smaller and lighter would be vulnerable.
Give O'Callaghan the start and see if he is up to pace of the game. Bring on Cullen if he isn't.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 24, 2010, 11:01:34 AM
Pray to the heavens that neither Hayes or Healy get injured early doors.
Oddly enough injury to one of them would be disasterous but injury to both would be a godsend as we could throw on an extra back row, get the best from tony buckleys game (ball in hand) and completely negate the effectiveness of any of the English front row.

The Rugby World council need to sort this out soon. The quicker we get to full 15 subs the better. it's now inevitable.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 24, 2010, 01:04:09 PM
15 subs??????

It is right for the props to have at 2 replacements maybe even 3 but anyone can play any other position on the team.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 24, 2010, 01:38:12 PM
15 subs??????

It is right for the props to have at 2 replacements maybe even 3 but anyone can play any other position on the team.
What's your point here? Paddy Wallace can play second row? Denis Leamy can play scrum half? POC can play on the wing? BOD could play out-half and we could still aspire to win? ??? ???
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on February 24, 2010, 01:54:55 PM
I don't see why they would want to increase the number of replacements available.

The last 20 mins of one-sided games turns into a complete mess as it is when both managers empty their benches.

Throw in the financial side of it too. 15 replacements maybe isn't such a big issue for Ireland, but if the likes of Connacht had to cart another 8 bodies across Europe for all their away fixtures, that would add a considerable hole in their finances.


Trileacman, the point Pat was making is that if both your lock-forwards get crocked, then you've one on the bench, and someone from the back-row can fill in. This might necessitate a winger/centre coming into the back-row, but it's do-able. If you want to continue covering off disaster scenerios such as when everyone who can kick a ball gets hurt at once, meaning there's no cover for fly-half, well you might has well have 30 men on the bench then.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 24, 2010, 02:15:36 PM
Logical enough selection. England will be trying to play a power game and won't be too concerned with getting it wide. So O'Leary will be kept busy tackling back row forwards. Reddan being smaller and lighter would be vulnerable.
Give O'Callaghan the start and see if he is up to pace of the game. Bring on Cullen if he isn't.
Reddan faced that kind of game week in week out when playing at wasps and did very well at it too
People didnt say that stringer was too small and he is even smaller than redden.

I agree with Magpie - Sexton will risk his life by being paired with one trick pony OLeary

cullen v unlucky to be dropped. Ogara is too to be honest - though I'm happy trying out sexton.
england will be no pushovers.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on February 24, 2010, 03:42:18 PM
Latest Odds from Ladbrokes:

Eng 4/5
Ire Evens
Draw 18/1
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 24, 2010, 04:27:51 PM
I don't see why they would want to increase the number of replacements available.

The last 20 mins of one-sided games turns into a complete mess as it is when both managers empty their benches.

Throw in the financial side of it too. 15 replacements maybe isn't such a big issue for Ireland, but if the likes of Connacht had to cart another 8 bodies across Europe for all their away fixtures, that would add a considerable hole in their finances.


Trileacman, the point Pat was making is that if both your lock-forwards get crocked, then you've one on the bench, and someone from the back-row can fill in. This might necessitate a winger/centre coming into the back-row, but it's do-able. If you want to continue covering off disaster scenerios such as when everyone who can kick a ball gets hurt at once, meaning there's no cover for fly-half, well you might has well have 30 men on the bench then.
Point taken but who said it had to be in place for the challenge cup or the magners league. The 6 nations couid easily accomdate ten. Surely that would go some way to facilitating a more fair system. I'm sick of seeing games where an injury occurs and it calls for an entire reshuffle of the front 8 or back 5, changing many players into unfamilar positions and destroying a gameplan. Under the current system a team is punished severly for being unlucky enough to have one injury (or having a player taken out of it) but yet two injuries can cause the scrum to be declared void. The team in this situation benefits as they can throw on a 4th back-rower to power round the pitch and dominate the loose.

The crux of my argument is why should two injuries be a better thing than one?? ??? ??? (in the context of a front row)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2010, 04:50:08 PM
Because then we'd be in uncontested scrums and we could bring on back rowers as an extra forward. One injury would be replaced by Buckley, two would leave no props left.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: turk on February 24, 2010, 05:38:48 PM
Cannot understand how O'Leary is still on that team. Good luck to Sexton receiving ball from him.

Odds are the scum will be a better platform than last time out so that should improve the service to O'Leary firstly so we'll see how that works out then to Sexton

That's harsh - the pack might struggle at some set pieces but they are doing their best
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 24, 2010, 05:40:32 PM
Cannot understand how O'Leary is still on that team. Good luck to Sexton receiving ball from him.

Odds are the scum will be a better platform than last time out so that should improve the service to O'Leary firstly so we'll see how that works out then to Sexton

That's harsh - the pack might struggle at some set pieces but they are doing their best

oops
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: trileacman on February 24, 2010, 06:35:54 PM
Because then we'd be in uncontested scrums and we could bring on back rowers as an extra forward. One injury would be replaced by Buckley, two would leave no props left.
FFS I know that, look back there a page and that's my original point.

The issue at hand is the need for the full 15 or possibly 10 substitutions.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: NAG1 on February 26, 2010, 11:01:09 AM
Do you not think the games decend into enough of a farce around the hour mark with the running on of subs with making it more. Cant think of a worse idea for making the game any sort of spectical to watch.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 26, 2010, 07:20:04 PM
O'Driscoll didnt train today  - was feeling sick, supposed to be starting tomorrow though, but if you are sick one day, are you fit for international rugby the next ?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: The Watcher Pat on February 26, 2010, 07:34:00 PM
Was in a Bookies in Lurgan looking at prices for this match.

They have Ireland 5/6 to win match and 1/1 plus a point. Work that out for yourself.

Better price for a point extra doesn't make any sense.

Too close to call so kept my hard earned in my pocket.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 27, 2010, 09:47:41 AM
He should be okl, he is a rugged character.

Wales 20 France 26

Yes it was on last night.

I missed the first 55 minutes. The Wales France match had an exciting finish almost like the Scottish match but the French kicked the ball straight out to end the game.

Roberts had a chance to put Hook away in the last 10 minutes but decided to go himself and Lee Byrne messed up 2 penalty kicks to touch in the last 20 minutes and those 3 mistakes really hurt the Welsh cause.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Midman on February 27, 2010, 03:54:02 PM


Any links for the game?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Square Ball on February 27, 2010, 04:03:55 PM


Any links for the game?

where are you Midman?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Midman on February 27, 2010, 04:05:29 PM

Spain -  so RTEs no good :-(
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Square Ball on February 27, 2010, 04:07:55 PM
thast why I asked, do you have sopcast? if so myp2p.eu
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Square Ball on February 27, 2010, 04:08:30 PM
get into them!!!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on February 27, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
great start, well set up by the pack turning it over, then sextons kick to Bowe - perfect. Except for conversion miss
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 27, 2010, 04:39:00 PM
Doing well but O'Learys kicking has been poor! Other than that it's classic Munster. Let the other side punch themselves out and then hit them last 10. I'd like another score before the half though!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: carnaross on February 27, 2010, 05:27:10 PM
Is that brian moore going to be a pillock all his life? I'm assuming the video ref has access to the TV coverage and that, therefore, could be influenced by opinions voiced from there. I certainly couldn't see the ball being grounded.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bogball XV on February 27, 2010, 05:33:19 PM
as that jonno penno was sailing wide, seanie o'leary was running back with hands out to each side in the style of a gaa umpire ;D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Harold Disgracey on February 27, 2010, 05:35:28 PM
I want to stick my boot down Brian Moore's throat.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: sandwiches_in_the_boot on February 27, 2010, 05:44:34 PM
Low lie............
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 ;D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Carmen Stateside on February 27, 2010, 05:55:51 PM
That was great veiwing.
Heaslip deserves motm, mountain of a man.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: norabeag on February 27, 2010, 06:03:33 PM
I want to stick my boot down Brian Moore's throat.
HAve just had that desire now for about 15 years.Horrible horrible jingoistic b*****x
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Schkite on February 27, 2010, 06:05:25 PM
POC on kneeing O'Driscoll in the head:

"Well I wanted to be captain for a little while today"  :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Midman on February 27, 2010, 06:13:35 PM
thast why I asked, do you have sopcast? if so myp2p.eu

Cheers lad, got sopcast and watched the match in glorious technicolor :-)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 27, 2010, 06:18:13 PM
Get in there....


The wheels are off the fecking chariot now   ;D ;D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 27, 2010, 06:25:08 PM
Just to turn the tables. Brave and plucky England, trying their hearts out. Played with guts, pride, passion and courage. Throwing everything they had at Ireland! Gave the Irish a real scare...  ;)

A master class in defensive play from Ireland. However Ireland made an amazing amount of errors with the little possession they had.
Still, its as good a way as any to beat England.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 27, 2010, 06:26:32 PM
I want to stick my boot down Brian Moore's throat.
HAve just had that desire now for about 15 years.Horrible horrible jingoistic b*****x
He was going nuts at the Danny Care vs TOL penalty turnaround.
O'Leary held onto the ball for about a fraction of a second before Care dumped him!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Square Ball on February 27, 2010, 06:34:31 PM
POC on kneeing O'Driscoll in the head:

"Well I wanted to be captain for a little while today"  :D

classic.

well what a game, thought those hatefull hoors were gonna steal it, not a big rugby fan but enjoy the 6 nations and while a win is a win to beat the Engerlish is well always v enjoyable
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 27, 2010, 06:58:59 PM
That's 6 times in the last 7 years we've beaten them.... some achievement!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 27, 2010, 07:31:27 PM
What ever about Brian Moore being pro english. I wish the Irish commentators would be pro Irish or at least fair to the Irish. The penalty turnaround was perfectly correct. Irish scrum and before the put in is taken the referee blows the whistle for an English penalty, Danny Care immediatelt tackles O'Leary to the ground, penalty Ireland and a possible yellow card. Then Haskell is the first man to intervene, again another possible yellow card for pushing O'Leary. It is then that Ferris charges in, but he is not the next man in like the Irish commentators said, that was in fact Haskell.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: EagleLord on February 27, 2010, 07:34:44 PM
Typical puke rugby from england. Good to see good attractive rugby winning out!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 27, 2010, 07:38:00 PM
What ever about Brian Moore being pro english. I wish the Irish commentators would be pro Irish or at least fair to the Irish. The penalty turnaround was perfectly correct. Irish scrum and before the put in is taken the referee blows the whistle for an English penalty, Danny Care immediatelt tackles O'Leary to the ground, penalty Ireland and a possible yellow card. Then Haskell is the first man to intervene, again another possible yellow card for pushing O'Leary. It is then that Ferris charges in, but he is not the next man in like the Irish commentators said, that was in fact Haskell.

Couldn't agree more... exactly what I thought
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: thejuice on February 27, 2010, 07:45:51 PM
Not as much fun as it used to be, beating England used to be a big thing, feels forgetable already, wasnt a great game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: magpie seanie on February 27, 2010, 07:50:09 PM
Not as much fun as it used to be, beating England used to be a big thing, feels forgetable already, wasnt a great game.


Oh its still as much fun as ever. In fact, that one was sweeter than some of the hammerings we've dished out to them in recent times.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 27, 2010, 07:54:21 PM
Did Martin Johnson make an eejit of himself in a TV interview afterwards by refusing to congratulate the Irish ???

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 27, 2010, 07:55:34 PM
Did Martin Johnson make an eejit of himself in a TV interview afterwards by refusing to congratulate the Irish ???
What did he say, or not say?
I wouldn't worry about a boor like Johnson.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 27, 2010, 07:57:44 PM
Did Martin Johnson make an eejit of himself in a TV interview afterwards by refusing to congratulate the Irish ???
What did he say, or not say?
I wouldn't worry about a boor like Johnson.


Apparently refused to congratulate the Irish on their win.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: tyronefan on February 27, 2010, 08:01:33 PM
what would you expect

thats the same p***k that made the President step of the red carpet
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: EagleLord on February 27, 2010, 08:06:04 PM
p***k. I still get mad when i see that footage. Hate the sight of him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Club Rossa on February 27, 2010, 08:08:04 PM
Great to stick it up them at Twickenham,especially with that hateful bollox Johnson over them.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: blewuporstuffed on February 27, 2010, 08:11:50 PM
What ever about Brian Moore being pro english. I wish the Irish commentators would be pro Irish or at least fair to the Irish. The penalty turnaround was perfectly correct. Irish scrum and before the put in is taken the referee blows the whistle for an English penalty, Danny Care immediatelt tackles O'Leary to the ground, penalty Ireland and a possible yellow card. Then Haskell is the first man to intervene, again another possible yellow card for pushing O'Leary. It is then that Ferris charges in, but he is not the next man in like the Irish commentators said, that was in fact Haskell.

Couldn't agree more... exactly what I thought
Jees Brian moore is an obnoxious gobshite
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 27, 2010, 08:19:30 PM
what would you expect

thats the same p***k that made the President step of the red carpet


His colleagues would have been the boyos who used to stop us going to GAA matches, take us out of cars and generally be as obnoxious as he is now. Leopards and spots.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 27, 2010, 08:21:52 PM
p***k. I still get mad when i see that footage. Hate the sight of him.

I still get mad whenever I see his gorilla/ape/chimpanzee/monkey/orangutan head. Delighted Ireland won today, and I'm not a rugby man by any means but it's always nice to beat that shower...always.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Main Street on February 27, 2010, 08:30:13 PM
Not as much fun as it used to be, beating England used to be a big thing, feels forgetable already, wasnt a great game.
This one is for the exiles.
An exile can never get enough of that
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: AFS on February 27, 2010, 08:34:21 PM
Might be on my own here, but I don't mind Moore. He was 100% on the England try, which was a very good spot. He did go off a bit about the reversed penalty, but he probably called the ref out as much, if not more often, about penalties not given to Ireland as ones not given to England over the course of the game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 27, 2010, 08:35:43 PM
Did Martin Johnson make an eejit of himself in a TV interview afterwards by refusing to congratulate the Irish ???

Was that the RTE intewrview? I just watched the BBC one and think he spoke honestly enough and I wouldn't say he has to congratulate us if he doesn't feel like it.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: gawa316 on February 27, 2010, 08:36:47 PM
Might be on my own here, but I don't mind Moore. He was 100% on the England try, which was a very good spot. He did go off a bit about the reversed penalty, but he probably called the ref out as much, if not more often, about penalties not given to Ireland as ones not given to England over the course of the game.

Have to say did like him slaggin Drogba in the 1st half
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 27, 2010, 08:37:04 PM
Did Martin Johnson make an eejit of himself in a TV interview afterwards by refusing to congratulate the Irish ???

Was that the RTE intewrview? I just watched the BBC one and think he spoke honestly enough and I wouldn't say he has to congratulate us if he doesn't feel like it.


RTE
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: tyronefan on February 27, 2010, 08:38:32 PM
Did Martin Johnson make an eejit of himself in a TV interview afterwards by refusing to congratulate the Irish ???

Was that the RTE intewrview? I just watched the BBC one and think he spoke honestly enough and I wouldn't say he has to congratulate us if he doesn't feel like it.


doesnt have to but would just be manners

then again he has proven in the past he doesnt have any
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 27, 2010, 08:39:48 PM
Did Martin Johnson make an eejit of himself in a TV interview afterwards by refusing to congratulate the Irish ???

Was that the RTE intewrview? I just watched the BBC one and think he spoke honestly enough and I wouldn't say he has to congratulate us if he doesn't feel like it.


RTE

Feck I'd love to see that now. . . he was alright on BBC but if he was actin the dick with Tracey then he's a w**ker!

Declan Kidney is a legend. Lording O'Gara and Hayes in all his interviews he really seems to know how to keep everyone happy. Hope O'Driscoll is ok for the next day!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: screenexile on February 27, 2010, 08:43:32 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2010/0227/england_ireland.html

Did they cut some out of this orangeman?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: orangeman on February 27, 2010, 08:46:30 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2010/0227/england_ireland.html

Did they cut some out of this orangeman?

Must have.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on February 27, 2010, 08:54:56 PM
Not as much fun as it used to be, beating England used to be a big thing, feels forgetable already, wasnt a great game.
This one is for the exiles.
An exile can never get enough of that

Aye was just thinking that there... Must be a huge day for all the Irish over there... even more so when we stuff them!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: comeontheredhands on February 27, 2010, 10:30:19 PM
was that Miley from GlenRoes brother who came on as sub
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bogball XV on February 28, 2010, 01:15:40 AM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2010/0227/england_ireland.html

Did they cut some out of this orangeman?
don't think so, i saw the interview at the time and thought nothing of it, it was only when it went back to studio that the boys started giving out that he hadn't congratulated the irish - i'd agree with screen, if he doesn't want, he doesn't have to, it's no big deal either way?  Unless of course I missed him refusing to congratulate them?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Aerlik on February 28, 2010, 02:31:52 AM
was that Miley from GlenRoes brother who came on as sub

I thought that too, watching the game in the Irish Club over here.  Not just any but EVERY win over the tans is to be relished, and especially by us exiles both in England and in other foreign countries.  We didn't have much to celebrate between 86 and 95 when I was living there.

There's a doco on ABC here about the demise of neanderthal man and some scientists' belief that rather than kill them off, Homo Sapiens actually interbred with them; well, Johnson is as prevalent an example of proof that that is more fact than theory.  What an ugly hoor.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on February 28, 2010, 10:17:37 AM
Any win over England is to be relished, but especially at Twickenham......I've been there too often in the 80's when we were stuffed and had to endure "swing low".
Johnson was a great player/captain but does not appear to have much in the way of manners or grace.
Another Triple Crown?  Here's hoping.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 28, 2010, 10:52:28 AM
I have to say you really have to be critical of the way France and England play the game, not an ounce of creativity between them these days. France relied on 2 interceptions against the Welsh to score a try at all and the English player was obviously held up over the line. No proof he had the ball down at all.

In their games against Ireland the French relied on sin binnnings and missed tackles to make any impact on the try line. While against the Welsh the English made hay when the Welsh were down to 14 men and a late interception try. With 1 try against the Italians. Look at what the Irish and Welsh can do, score late great tries from anywhere at any time. The English and French are going to get some surprise when they go to play Argentina and South Africa in the world cup and find out who the real masters of 10 man power rugby are. That is before considering New Zealand at home, thy need to wise up a bit and Johnson does not seem to be the man.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 28, 2010, 11:08:23 AM
Eventually on to the game itself.

A well deserved victory by Ireland, 3 tries to nil tells its own story. Engalnd didn't threaten the Irish try line apart from a couple of occasions and their line out was put under a lot of pressure. Even benefitting from a couple of penalties given to monye one for sticking his boot into Jamie Heaslips chest and the other for backing into tommy Bow couldn't save them. Heaslip, Bowe, Ferris, Murphy Earls Sexton,(not goal kicking) all had good games. Good to see more of the younger generation being mentioned as the key performers.

Tony Buckley helped steady the scrum when he came in and might get a chance ahead of Hayes soon enough. There has been a lot of criticism of Buckleys game but I certainly don't think we would be taking a step back putting him into the tighthead spot for future games.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: nrico2006 on February 28, 2010, 11:54:55 AM
Capt pat England scored a try did.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: 13aside on February 28, 2010, 12:05:37 PM
well done to ireland yesterday for their great win against england at twickenham in a gruelling encounter,spoke to a well informed rugby supporter and in his opnion buckley is simply too tall for a tight-head prop-any views? 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: thejuice on February 28, 2010, 01:20:30 PM
Not as much fun as it used to be, beating England used to be a big thing, feels forgetable already, wasnt a great game.
This one is for the exiles.
An exile can never get enough of that

Aye was just thinking that there... Must be a huge day for all the Irish over there... even more so when we stuff them!!

Really? I've been living in England these last 7 years.

It was great in 2004 as they were world champions as was beating them in Croke Park but they are only a pale shadow of that team now. English fans are aware of this that their team are not what they used to be nor where they should be given the resources and tradition they have. Beating them now feels no different to beating Wales, Scotland or anyone else for me.

Mind you it was generally Englands tactics that made it a poor game to watch.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 28, 2010, 03:06:25 PM
Buckley is no taller than John Hayes. Where it may create a problem is the comparison between Buckley and Healy, I do not think it would be good for the hooker to be binding with a guy of 5ft 10 on one side and 6ft 7 on the other. All the things they are saying about Buckley are a repeat of the same things they were saying about Hayes 100 caps ago.

Yes England may have scored a try yesterday but nobody knos for sure.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on February 28, 2010, 03:28:48 PM
Yep, he's about the same height as John Hayes, though looks much bulkier. Unfortunately Hayes really looks in decline,

If Buckley's scrummaging is as poor as claimed, then Hayes must now be in a really bad way.
Buckley looks decent in open play. He made one very good turnover when Ireland were on the back foot late on.
Giving Buckley or Court a start is not such a huge punt given the pressure the scrum has been under lately.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: DuffleKing on February 28, 2010, 05:53:15 PM

Buckley has to be seriously looked at. the only way to get the bull to the world cup next year is as an impact sub for the last 20, when packs are tiring. for that to work, someone has to start.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 28, 2010, 05:59:35 PM
A half-dead John Hayes is still a better scrummager that Tony Buckley, if he was to start we would get maimed in the scrums. It's his bread and butter and quite frankly he's shit at it. Any Munster fan would tell you the same.

Now he did ok yesterday but until Munster get a scrum doctor in I just can't see him improving enough. Mike Ross and Tom Court are better scrummagers imho.

Tight-head determines how your scrum goes, only out-halfs get paid more in the professional game in England.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on February 28, 2010, 06:07:05 PM
Hayes has got 100 caps for two reasons, one is a lack of outstanding Irish props over the past decade, but the other and more pertinent being that both management and the media have been unwilling to give any other props the chance to break through properly during that time.

He is a decent, honest player, but even at his peak five years ago he was miles behind every other six nations tighthead.

So while I thank him for service to his country, I am actually looking forward to seeing the scrummaging and dynamism of the Irish pack improving, simply be his long overdue replacement.

If Kidney is even considering him for the world cup, it shows just how every manager has weaknesses.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on February 28, 2010, 06:13:04 PM
Jaysus Wobbler, you have a real set against the Munster lads. O'Gara, O'Leary and Hayes have all been slated by you :D

Munster must be dog lucky to be competitive with weaklings like that around the place....

I do think Hayes is one of the worst scrummagers at tight head, but as Dinny says, Buckley is far worse.

Buckley is more dynamic around the loose, but Hayes is a monster at the lineout. His strength is immense there, and that will be missed when he goes. He is also first tackler a lot of the time around the rucks. Buckley is good for the odd big clearout defensively or offensively at ruck time, but his basics are far behind Hayes.

Hayes has been a fantastic servant for IReland and Munster, and is a sound man too. He'll be missed when he goes, but that time is obviously getting ever closer. Buckley needs to seriously get his act together, and Laurie Fisher at Munster is not the man to coach him. I wonder would the Claw come in there?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: thewobbler on February 28, 2010, 06:24:21 PM
You're probably right AZ, there's a bias in there I can't get rid of.

The Munster are the greatest team ever sh1te really does rile me, and while I can appreciate the brilliance of some of their players over the past decade - POC, DOC, Wallace, Leamy and Quinlan in particular - I'd also think that in the shape of Foley, Stringer and O'Gara, they've produced the three most overrated and uninspiring recurring international players of the time.

Hayes falls somewhere in between - he has largely been the best tighthead of the decade in Ireland, but his number of average to poor games in a green shirt are now readily glossed over by the "great servant" and "bull of a man" stuff.

Last thing on him, his fans always bring this lineout stuff into the equation. I've never ever heard another prop being recommended for his lineout abilities. This creates a quandary for me. Either he is the greatest lineout lifter in the history of the game and should be feted as such, or maybe it's worth considering that the only people in the world who care so much about lineout lifting abilities tend to wear red shirts, are impossible to understand, and will furiously claim they were there when the All Blacks got beaten.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 28, 2010, 06:37:57 PM
That Munster set , O'Gara, Stringer, Foley, Hayes, Flannery and the others drove this Irish team to its highest ever levels for the best part of a decade. Not all of them were the best in the world but collectively they were not far off it.

Hayes did ok in the scrum considering the French and English scrums he has played against 20 times or more in the 6 nations. There was nobody else to pick. Buckley will be fine in future if he can get over the ranting and raving of critics like Wobbler he certainly won't be a step back.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 28, 2010, 06:41:13 PM
Quote
That Munster set , O'Gara, Stringer, Foley, Hayes, Flannery and the others drove this Irish team to its highest ever levels for the best part of a decade. Not all of them were the best in the world but collectively they were not far off it.

Pass me a bucket

Quote
Buckley will be fine in future

No he won't, he's an awful scrummager period.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on February 28, 2010, 07:31:10 PM
Bit harsh on the Bull there Wobbler. I can't think of any other realistic options at tight-head in the last decade. Paul Wallace was plagued by injuries when Hayes was starting off and both the Leinster and Ulster teams have had mostly foreign props during that period - BJ Botha, CJ Van Der Linde, Stan Wright, Will Green, Robbie Kempson. Court has played most of his rugby at loose-head over the last few years and Mike Ross is well down the pecking order at Leinster. Its a pity Buckley didn't go to Bath a few years ago because his game would have benefitted from playing week in, week out. I still think Timmy Ryan at Toulon could be the long term solution at three.

Good gritty performance yesterday. The defense was superb. To only miss one tackle over eighty minutes is some going. Huge improvement from Paris. Thought Geordie Murphy was excellent at full-back considering how little rugby he has played this season. Earls showed his promise with one or two great breaks. I hope the rumours of Riki Flutey going to Munster aren't true because I think he'll benefit hugely from nailing down a position in the centre.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: highorlow on February 28, 2010, 07:49:15 PM
Was it just my brain / imagination or did I hear correct during the match yesterday one of our lads saying "english pricks" and it was heard on the TV?

Did anyone else here this and confirm that i did hear it?

It was in the first half, i'd say about a half hour into the game? I thought i was imagining it and then in the 2nd half you could hear the players clear enough through the ref's mic ....
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on February 28, 2010, 08:19:06 PM
Quote
That Munster set , O'Gara, Stringer, Foley, Hayes, Flannery and the others drove this Irish team to its highest ever levels for the best part of a decade. Not all of them were the best in the world but collectively they were not far off it.

Pass me a bucket

[

Somebody  had an awful hard time of it the last 10 years with a very successful Munster rugby team. I meant collectively O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Leamy and Wallace and at international level O'Driscoll and Darcy in the mix as well.

When is Leamy coming back?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: cookstownblue on March 03, 2010, 04:38:10 PM
Met Geordan murphy, in a pub in London Sunday night, must have been pretty late, and a guy comes up to him,
"Gordon, great game yesterday, well done Gordan!"
To which he replies,
"Gordan? Me name's not f**kin Gordon, Call me Gordon again and I'll F**k yee down them stairs!"

lol I laughed! He prob gets this a lot!

Real nice guy too, he was full of banter ( and jaigermeister)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - England v Ireland, 27 February 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 08, 2010, 04:34:37 PM
Looks like Kearney  will be grand for Saturday



Rob Kearney came through a full session with Ireland today but is not guaranteed to slot straight back into the first XV against Wales.

Kearney completed a full session in Greystones today prior to tomorrow's selection announcement for Saturday's RBS 6 Nations clash with Wales.

Captain and centre Brian O'Driscoll and number eight Jamie Heaslip all took a full part in the session.

But Kearney is not guaranteed to come straight back into the starting line-up having missed the match against England with Geordan Murphy impressing in his absence.

Speaking to RTÉ Sport's Michael Corcoran, Ireland attack coach Alan Gaffney said:' 'Rob Kearney trained today and came through the whole session. It looks like he'll be okay. We've got to go through the selection process.

'Obviously Geordan played very, very well against England and he played extremely well on the weekend (for Leicester) against London Irish, which we kept a close eye on.'

But Kearney is available and his speedy recovery may play a role in the selection debate, while Ireland will have a full deck to select from in the other positions.

Gaffney added: 'Kearns is back and he hasn't been out for that long since he got hurt in the first 20 minutes against France. Everybody else is available apart from the long-term injuries.'

O'Driscoll was forced off in the final quarter of the 16-20 victory against England after being struck on the head by Paul O'Connell's knee.

Gaffney added that O'Driscoll has 'recovered well' from the blow, which clearly staggered him.

O'Driscoll subsequently described England centre and Lions team-mate Riki Flutey as 'the villain of the piece' for his part in the clash.

The Ireland captain wrote in his IRFU blog: 'As for the blame game, I'm beginning to come round to the suggestion that Riki Flutey is the villain of the piece.

'If he had not tripped me, I think I would have collected the chip ahead comfortably and not found myself scrambling around unaware that I was about to become road-kill.'

O'Driscoll was also the victim of a late hit by Flutey when Ireland beat England last year.

Heaslip completed 80-minutes against England but was seen to be limping in the aftermath of the game but he has now made a full recovery and is available for selection.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on March 09, 2010, 01:33:48 PM
Team unchanged from Twickenham. Kearney replaces Trimble on the bench.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on March 09, 2010, 01:45:06 PM
Team unchanged from Twickenham. Kearney replaces Trimble on the bench.

Delighted for Geordan Murphy. Kearney will be back obviously, but Murphy did nothing wrong at Twickenham, so it's right that he retains his place.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: Aghdavoyle on March 09, 2010, 02:02:58 PM

Haven't seen murphy other than the england game since he returned from injury. He dropped one dolly in that one. how has he been playing and particularly, how has he been tackling?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: Archie Mitchell on March 13, 2010, 02:41:59 PM
Always great to see big John Hayes show so much emotion during the anthems.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: AidyMac on March 13, 2010, 02:48:36 PM
stuck at work

anyone got a link to the game?

cheers

sorry - found a link on rte
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on March 13, 2010, 03:33:43 PM
poor start by both teams, but yet again in this tournament, it shows that you cant afford to be a man down at this level. Ireland scored 2 tries when Lee Byrne was sin-binned. Good tries by Earls and O'Leary.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 13, 2010, 05:01:24 PM
Just back from the game. It was a strangely muted atmosphere at this game, double agent Lee Byrne won it for us with the sin binning and penalty in the second half. Nice performances from O'Leary and Earls amongst others.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: Premier Emperor on March 13, 2010, 05:15:38 PM
Just back from the game. It was a strangely muted atmosphere at this game, double agent Lee Byrne won it for us with the sin binning and penalty in the second half.
He must be from Wicklow with a name like that!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: thewobbler on March 13, 2010, 06:07:52 PM
That was impressive enough from Ireland today. Patient, committed and clinical.

Sexton had on off-game yet our backs still look much livelier for his presence than they normally do with ROG pulling the strings.

O'Leary was very good, even if some of his passing was dreadful. I would have usurped him for man of the match though by any of Wallace, O'Connell, Earls, and even Rory Best - whose defensive effort was superb. In fairness, it's nice to have that many contenders for MotM.


Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 14, 2010, 12:55:48 AM
With the missed kicks of Sexton and a lot of balls kicked straight into touch by the Irish team and a lot of very handy penalties given to the Welsh today I though it was a very poot effort by Wales to be 15 points behind at the end. they were never really at the races today. The Irish team is stronger than ever as of this moment in time. Stronger than it was last year and just had a bad day at the office against the French. Some players are aging though and the world cup can not come soon enough.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: mackers on March 14, 2010, 10:15:22 AM
Ireland seem to be happy to trust their defence and hit teams on the break. O'Leary should be to stop box-kicking cause he can't do it, always too long but that aside he played well. Thought Rory Best was MOTM myself. As an aside, I've noticed that ROG belts out the anthem but NEVER sings Ireland's Call, good number of the players sing the anthem and not Ireland's Call.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: gallsman on March 14, 2010, 10:38:57 AM
Good win considering how little ball we had. Great to see a killer instinct in some of our play at long last. Several outstanding displays as mentioned above. BOD didn't have the greatest of days on his century what with penalties, missed tackles and poor kicks, but considering the guy's achievements and standing, I think he can be allowed one bad day!

On a more serious note, Sexton remains to convince that he's the real deal. Yesterday had some flashes of ability with the drop goal, but both his place kicking and from hand were very poor. I've discussed this with a few people and they've said "he's young" or "he needs time" but it's not as if the guy is a baby, he's nearly 25. I think he's very much the "next best" after O'Gara instead of a true replacement. For all the depth in several positions Ireland ave these days, with a lot more promising players at the various under-age levels, we've a shocking lack of out-halves.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 14, 2010, 07:19:49 PM
Sexton kicked well last year, but this year he has gone back to what he was like when he first came on the Leinster team as a goal kicker. He needs to get refocused at his goal kicking. At this point in time he should be dropped. Kicking the ball straight into touch is not good enough at this level either. I do expect him to be Irelands first choice outhalf in the world cup in 18 months
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 14, 2010, 08:29:15 PM
Quote
At this point in time he should be dropped

For who? an out half who can't tackle, can't break and gets turned over regularly. Irelands backplay is a lot more clinical with Sexton at the helm.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: slow corner back on March 14, 2010, 08:36:44 PM
I am not a rugby player at all and could well be talking nonsense but how hard would it be to coach goalkicking to a talented out half? While we are at it why dont Rob Kearney and possibly one of the wings take a little coaching too to give Ireland some options at place kicking time. I noticed in yesterdays game for one long range penalty wales had a choice of Jones, Hook or Halfpenny to take it. Do Irish coaches always rely on the out half to take the kicks?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: thewobbler on March 14, 2010, 08:48:23 PM
Quote
I am not a rugby player at all and could well be talking nonsense but how hard would it be to coach goalkicking to a talented out half? While we are at it why dont Rob Kearney and possibly one of the wings take a little coaching too to give Ireland some options at place kicking time. I noticed in yesterdays game for one long range penalty wales had a choice of Jones, Hook or Halfpenny to take it. Do Irish coaches always rely on the out half to take the kicks?
There are two poor flaws in what you are saying.

The simpler one is that although Wales might have appear to have a choice of Jones, Hook or Halfpenny for their long-range kicks, the reality is that Halfpenny is a poorish kicker in terms of accuracy, and only comes into the reckoning because Jones doesn't have a long boot, while kicking consistency has always been a problem for the otherwise prodigious Hook. So for long-range kicks they tend to all look at each other, work out who is the most confident then generally watch as the incumbent fails miserably.


Regarding coaching people to goal kick - the major problem here is that you can't really coach length of kick. Undoubtedly you can add yards to your kicking length by improving technique, but this is something that happens through years of practice, not weeks or months.

And when you bring angles into the equatation, even most conversions require the ability to clear a 10ft bar from 30 yards. Out-halves, who have played a kicking role since they were nippers and as such tend to have a strong kicking leg, mostly just have to worry about accuracy. Which has to make them a better better 95 times out of 100 than a winger who has spent the last 15 years developing muscles to make him run quicker.   




Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on March 14, 2010, 08:51:41 PM
On a more serious note, Sexton remains to convince that he's the real deal. Yesterday had some flashes of ability with the drop goal, but both his place kicking and from hand were very poor. I've discussed this with a few people and they've said "he's young" or "he needs time" but it's not as if the guy is a baby, he's nearly 25. I think he's very much the "next best" after O'Gara instead of a true replacement. For all the depth in several positions Ireland ave these days, with a lot more promising players at the various under-age levels, we've a shocking lack of out-halves.
Sexton may not be the real deal, but he is a better all round player than O'Gara.
He offers more of a threat with ball in hand. He can distribute running forward, make breaks, commit tacklers to create space for others, offload in the tackle and also tackle himself.

It isn't coincidence that in the last two 2 games, Ireland have run in 6 decent tries with good thinking from Sexton being a feature in many of them.

While Sexton can operate flatter, O'Gara is forced to sit too deep in the pocket because of his lack of abilities in the contact area and his propensity to turn it over in contact. While he brings good tactical kicking and a safe flat pass (though usually away from the gain line), his game doesn't have enough dimensions to it to succeed against the top 4 teams in World rugby. He is fairly consistent and has served Ireland well to a point, but his record on the big stage is not good.
If you don't believe me, then look at he how he has performed on World Cups, Lions tours, Southern Hemisphere Tours and trips to Paris. 

WC2011 won't buck the trend. At least with Sexton, though he is certainly far from perfect he has more to his overall game. He stuck over the first 11 kicks for Ireland without missing one, so I wouldn't be too worried that his kicking is flawed.

Declan Kidney will dish out the platitudes about how great it is to have two great fly halves, but his mind is already made up. His stated his ambition is for Ireland to evolve towards more of a running game, instead of just kicking it all the time. ROG will be thrown a few appearances to keep him fresh, but Sexton has the jersey long term.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on March 14, 2010, 08:53:48 PM
Quote
At this point in time he should be dropped

For who? an out half who can't tackle, can't break and gets turned over regularly. Irelands backplay is a lot more clinical with Sexton at the helm.
Put a lot more succinctly than I could put it  ;)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 14, 2010, 09:58:11 PM
Look lads if he deson't kick the goals, he can't be on the team it is as simple as that. It is something he will have to deal with and I think he will. Nobody else has stepped up to the plate to do the job from other positions so it is O'gara or Sexton and if one of them is not doing the business then the other gets their place in the team. Sexton looks like he might be the better all round prospect but if he doesn't do the simple things like easy kicks at goal and a kick going straight into touch then that is not good to the team.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: thewobbler on March 14, 2010, 10:41:32 PM
Capt Pat, I refer you to the last World Cup, when ROG could neither kick a goal nor find touch, despite being a 50+ capped international.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: ha ha derry on March 15, 2010, 08:12:51 AM
With the six nations all but over Sexton can count himself lucky to be ahead in the race for the No 10 shirt. He was at best average.
Against England it was noticeable the look of relief on the forwards demeanour when O Gara took to the field. The forwards seem to trust him. This kind of trust takes time to earn.
I still think the problem lies at scrum half, ( I know O LEARY was man of the match against the worst pack Ireland have played against this year) poor passing and box kicks against better opposition will be costly.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: orangeman on March 15, 2010, 10:17:19 AM
O'Gara has been there done that etc etc - Sexton might never reach those dizzy heights.

I'd stick with the tried and tested for now.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on March 15, 2010, 10:49:33 AM
Nah, can't agree with some of this. I have great time for ROG, and I appreciate him more than most on here (Wobbler, that means you :D) but this is the time to blood Sexton seriously. Give him game time. He is the heir apparent, and his overall game means he is not severely handicapping the side at all, in fact he does look good with the ball in hand, and he is a far better tackler.

His kicking from hand and from the tee will get better as he gets comfortable in his surrounds. But you won't solve that problem by dropping him. After the French defeat, it was obvious that this was the opportunity to give him his head. Dropping him now when there's no real need to would be damaging for him. (Might be great for Munster if he got the heebie jeebies, but for Ireland in the bigger picture we need him confident and playing well)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: thewobbler on March 15, 2010, 11:03:14 AM
He's a poor player AZ and you know it :)

Seriously though, look at the Irish backline heading to the World Cup. Bowe and Kearney would have serious claims to be considered in the best team in the world. Earls and Fitzgerald are intelligent, athletic and prolific and have a year of growing ahead of them. BOD, Murphy and D'Arcy may have their best years behind them, but they can read and run lines as well as anyone. O'Leary is a flyer. Handicapping that backline with a fly-half who is only effective in the pocket would be madness.

 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on March 15, 2010, 11:20:55 AM
He's a poor player AZ and you know it :)

Seriously though, look at the Irish backline heading to the World Cup. Bowe and Kearney would have serious claims to be considered in the best team in the world. Earls and Fitzgerald are intelligent, athletic and prolific and have a year of growing ahead of them. BOD, Murphy and D'Arcy may have their best years behind them, but they can read and run lines as well as anyone. O'Leary is a flyer. Handicapping that backline with a fly-half who is only effective in the pocket would be madness.

Not arguing with that. I suppose the only thing is that during games, or even starting certain games, where the game plan is based on field position rather than releasing the backs, then O'Gara is probably better at the moment. But Sexton will be grand at that as well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Wales 13 March 2010
Post by: The Subbie on March 15, 2010, 11:35:27 AM
As an aside, I've noticed that ROG belts out the anthem but NEVER sings Ireland's Call, good number of the players sing the anthem and not Ireland's Call.

Heard a good one in the pub on Sat when the teams ran out a lad in the bar said he was away to put a few bets on and would be back when the eurovision before the game was over ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: johnneycool on March 15, 2010, 11:47:05 AM
Capt Pat, I refer you to the last World Cup, when ROG could neither kick a goal nor find touch, despite being a 50+ capped international.

Sexton will improve with the more gametime he gets now, O'Gara will only get worse as he's peaked a few years back.

Kidney has to keep the World cup as his main target and work to get 20 odd lads up to scratch for that. O'Gara and Hayes shouldn't be part of that, well maybe O'Gara from the bench if I'm being kind.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on March 15, 2010, 11:51:24 AM
O'Gara will be in the World Cup squad unless he gets tired of being backup and retires from Ireland (not beyond the realms of possibility). If you could combine Sexton's tackling and offensive positioning with O'Gara's field management and goal kicking (normally) you'd have a hell of an out half.

As I said, Sexton contributes more in an all round sense to this Ireland team, and should be the first choice #10. But if Sexton has a bad day, or gets hurt, I don't think the forwards would mind ROG coming on. The backs might be disappointed mind you.

Still not a bad option to have.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Hound on March 15, 2010, 12:53:12 PM
I wonder will Kidney shake things up a bit next week, just to keep players on their toes?

Maybe O'Gara and Kearney will both start, maybe Trimble too if Darce is anything less than 100%. Jennings, Cullen and Buckley might also have a shout of a start (in that order). If Sexton doesn't start I reckon Kidney will give him a good 20 minutes anyway.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 15, 2010, 02:19:53 PM
Sexton is a handy player but he is not the second coming of Christ. The reality is there is nobody else to take the goal kicks, so until Sexton gets his head back in that game he is off the team. The same would be true the other way round with O'Gara. There is a triple crown on the line next week which is something more important than the ego and confidence of the outhalf.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: johnneycool on March 15, 2010, 03:28:33 PM
Sexton is a handy player but he is not the second coming of Christ. The reality is there is nobody else to take the goal kicks, so until Sexton gets his head back in that game he is off the team. The same would be true the other way round with O'Gara. There is a triple crown on the line next week which is something more important than the ego and confidence of the outhalf.

Does anyone other than Ireland give a f**k for this triple crown shite?

Would i be right in saying they didn't even have a trophy for it until a few years back?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on March 15, 2010, 03:31:43 PM
Sexton is a handy player but he is not the second coming of Christ. The reality is there is nobody else to take the goal kicks, so until Sexton gets his head back in that game he is off the team. The same would be true the other way round with O'Gara. There is a triple crown on the line next week which is something more important than the ego and confidence of the outhalf.

Does anyone other than Ireland give a f**k for this triple crown shite?

Would i be right in saying they didn't even have a trophy for it until a few years back?

I think it's a historical throwback from when it was the 4 nations. Then a triple crown was a de facto Grand Slam. Then France came in and spoiled everything :D

There was no trophy for it until the late 90s I think, or maybe even later. Then they robbed the Wimbledon Women's Singles trophy and awarded it to Ireland.

In fairness I think, for historical reasons, the Scots, Welsh and English (probably in that order) still care about it. It's a tangible version of local 'bragging rights'.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Hardy on March 15, 2010, 03:46:00 PM
Think of it as a bit like the O'Byrne Shield.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Caid on March 15, 2010, 04:48:48 PM
Bit of a long shot I know but if anyone has any spare tickets (reasonably priced ones) for the match at the weekend would you should me an email (b1461402@qub.ac.uk)

Cheers
Caid
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: passedit on March 15, 2010, 04:53:25 PM
Think of it as a bit like the O'Byrne Shield.

That'd be the Calcutta Cup.

Treated with due respect by messrs Jeffrey and Richards back in the day.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: highorlow on March 15, 2010, 07:08:53 PM
Great win for Munster on Saturday.

Good warm up for the HC.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: trileacman on March 15, 2010, 10:29:52 PM
Alot of shite being posted on here. Firstly Kearny is not or nowhere near the Worlds best FB. Off hand I can think of Byrne and now poitranaud being better. That's not even considering Southern Hemisphere sides. Murphy's two displays have been superior to alot of Kearny's rugby in the past year and he should now be given the Full back shirt in my opinion.

Kearny has no attacking threat compared with any other world class full back and is only considered so highly because of his capable hands and strong boot which we all love coz it minds us of a GAA midfielder or FB.

Interesting to see the Sexton apolygists out in force. Had ROG produced these kicking displays the same men would have been twisting the knife in no time. But anyway we are going down this road so we'll have to stick with him. He does get the best out of the backs and aids the defence.

George Hook is also right. The triple crown is a losers trophy and means shite all. However we still have to win this match and cant afford to piss about with the team too much, starting trimble would be dabbling with defeat, he's an awful centre. The only change I would believe in making is starting Mushy to see if he can scrummage. We are now 12 months from a WC and we have an embarassment of a scrum. If Mushy is the way forward (which he isn't) then we need to bleed him quickly.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: ludermor on March 15, 2010, 11:03:36 PM
On current form Byrne is cack! And Poitranaud is still flakey as f**k. Kearney hasnt been great for the last 6 months but i wouldnt write off all his last years form when he was superb.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 15, 2010, 11:13:12 PM
Alot of shite being posted on here. Firstly Kearny is not or nowhere near the Worlds best FB. Off hand I can think of Byrne and now poitranaud being better. That's not even considering Southern Hemisphere sides. Murphy's two displays have been superior to alot of Kearny's rugby in the past year and he should now be given the Full back shirt in my opinion.

Kearny has no attacking threat compared with any other world class full back and is only considered so highly because of his capable hands and strong boot which we all love coz it minds us of a GAA midfielder or FB.

Kearney's current form is only middling but you must not have seen him play last season at all if you think he has no attacking threat. Poitrenaud is currently playing fairly well but is always an accident waiting to happen and it will happen. Byrne's current form is much like Kearney's. Middling at best.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 16, 2010, 12:31:41 AM
Alot of shite being posted on here. .


Aint that the truth.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2010, 12:58:28 AM
Alot of shite being posted on here. .


Aint that the truth.

Sexton's shit. . . NO O'Gara's shite!! NO!! Kearney's shite! O'Leary's shite, Stringers shite, Hayes is shite, our scrum is shite, O'Callaghan's shite too and so is Trimble and Paddy Wallace, Murphy's shite as is Reddan and our whole scrum. . .

f**k me it's a wonder that we win a match at all!!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: ha ha derry on March 16, 2010, 09:06:29 AM
Alot of shite being posted on here. .


Aint that the truth.


Sexton's shit. . . NO O'Gara's shite!! NO!! Kearney's shite! O'Leary's shite, Stringers shite, Hayes is shite, our scrum is shite, O'Callaghan's shite too and so is Trimble and Paddy Wallace, Murphy's shite as is Reddan and our whole scrum. . .

f**k me it's a wonder that we win a match at all!!!


 :D :D :D :D
 
It used to be better craic when every ten or so matches Ireland would win one.  ::)
Seriously though Declan Kidney knows what he is doing and will have the best available squad ready for the world cup.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Hound on March 16, 2010, 12:29:07 PM
No change!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: ludermor on March 17, 2010, 07:23:46 PM
Bit of a long shot I know but if anyone has any spare tickets (reasonably priced ones) for the match at the weekend would you should me an email (b1461402@qub.ac.uk)

Cheers
Caid
Caid i sent you a mail
Title: Johnno drops Johnny
Post by: Aghdavoyle on March 17, 2010, 09:52:10 PM

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12333_6032457,00.html
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Declan on March 19, 2010, 12:14:02 PM
Not strictly related to the International scene but heard a story this morning from a pal who is involved at club level. It related to the sending off off a Clongowes player in the Senior Cup semi-final against St Mary's for eye gouging. He was reported and under the laws had to appear before the Leinster Branch disciplinary committee who decided to take no further action. Apparently the player was accompanied to the hearing by the school principal and also a Senior Counsel who indicated that if anything was done about suspensions etc before the final then they would all end up on in court. In other words this lad is playing in the final come what may. Anyway the outcome was that he did play.
A lot of clubs in particular very unhappy about the stance taken by the Leinster Branch given the French incidents this year in the H cup and how dangerous it is but they basically backed down under threat. What's more interesting from my perspective is the complete lack of coverage of it in the mainstream media. Should I be surprised??? 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: ludermor on March 19, 2010, 12:30:39 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0312/1224266110474.html

The times had reported it but is doesnt seem to have got widespread coverage ( that say a dirty french player would have got!)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 19, 2010, 02:18:38 PM
Tipperary did the same trick for the All Ireland minor hurling final with an actual trip to the high court a few years back. Not for eye gouging but it still seems very unfair that teenagers use barristers to get away with these suspensions.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 19, 2010, 02:22:36 PM
Aye I think I read about that in the Sunday Independent, maybe Hook might have mentioned it in his column
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: leenie on March 19, 2010, 06:22:17 PM
wonder what would be a good bet to put on... try and salvage something out of the week!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: orangeman on March 19, 2010, 06:32:24 PM
wonder what would be a good bet to put on... try and salvage something out of the week!


Scotland plus 14.5 points.  Evens.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: muppet on March 19, 2010, 06:37:49 PM
wonder what would be a good bet to put on... try and salvage something out of the week!

John Hayes to bawl his eyes out during the National Anthem 1/8
Mary Harney to become the first Minister to go grazing on Croke Park 2/1
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Aerlik on March 20, 2010, 12:39:17 PM
Could someone please let me know of an internet link, if available, to watch the game.  Thanks.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: anportmorforjfc on March 20, 2010, 05:13:28 PM
Ireland have dropped the ball about 5 times so far. Reminding me of the world cup games in 2007 ::)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: thewobbler on March 20, 2010, 05:17:09 PM
Another welcome nail in the coffin of O'Gara's international career :)

Tremendous work by Sexton.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Schkite on March 20, 2010, 05:52:30 PM
Great work for the try no doubt, but his kicking nightmare continues, another missed right in front of the posts. Hopefully he can land his next one as we'll need him on song to get back in front against Scotland who've done well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 20, 2010, 05:56:46 PM
In trouble here.... lineout giving a bit of bother unlike other days... scrum in trouble too.  Unreal amount of errors too.  But I still feel a few of those back line moves are 1 or 2 passes away from cutting the Scots defence up
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 20, 2010, 06:06:17 PM
Too easy for Scotland.
Bring ROG on.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Schkite on March 20, 2010, 06:07:01 PM
Another bad miss, his confidence just seems to be shot, we'll see ROG soon, 10 points behind and we need points on the board quick.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: trileacman on March 20, 2010, 06:12:13 PM
Another welcome nail in the coffin of O'Gara's international career :)

Tremendous work by Sexton.

 :D :D :D :D :D :D
Good to see the sexton apolygists out in force.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 20, 2010, 06:27:36 PM
ROG rules  OK.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Bogball XV on March 20, 2010, 06:36:32 PM
what's the point in having a game clock when they don't stop it half the time, took nearly 2 mins for that penalty
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Schkite on March 20, 2010, 06:42:09 PM
Thon fcuker Parks taking his time alright.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: DirtyDozen12 on March 20, 2010, 06:43:31 PM
Thon fcuker Parks taking his time alright.

Some kick, let the tears begin  :'( :'(
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Schkite on March 20, 2010, 06:45:02 PM
Great kick alright, under big pressure and loud boos to be fair. Can't say they didn't deserve it.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 20, 2010, 06:45:13 PM
Parks is doing exactly what O'Gara would do in the same circumstances.

Well done to Scotland, a well deserved victory
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: tyroneboi on March 20, 2010, 06:46:19 PM
Can't really have any arguments with that result.

Lost the first and last match at Croke Park.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 20, 2010, 06:47:52 PM
Line out was a disaster... Was Best to blame for all those crooked throws?  No confidence in Cronin obviously that he didn't come on
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on March 20, 2010, 06:57:07 PM
Hard luck today, if we had won it would have been 5th Triple Crown in 7 years....not bad for a team with a small squad to pick from.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 20, 2010, 07:06:11 PM
Very poor performance. Set-piece went to pot altogether. If you have a weak scrum you better have a good lineout to make up for it and the lineout malfunctioned completely. Ireland seemed to start too casually as well. The first 20 minutes they were throwing the ball about like it was a game of sevens and while they did score a good try they also spilled a lot of ball. Sexton really needs to sort out his place kicking. He's left a lot of points on the field during the 6 Nations. Pity as in general play he's done well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: rosnarun on March 20, 2010, 07:07:10 PM
WELL DONE TO THE IRFU MINOR SLAM AND DOUBLE CROWN CHAMPIONS 2010
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 20, 2010, 07:13:55 PM
Very poor performance. Set-piece went to pot altogether. If you have a weak scrum you better have a good lineout to make up for it and the lineout malfunctioned completely. Ireland seemed to start too casually as well. The first 20 minutes they were throwing the ball about like it was a game of sevens and while they did score a good try they also spilled a lot of ball. Sexton really needs to sort out his place kicking. He's left a lot of points on the field during the 6 Nations. Pity as in general play he's done well.

Completely agree with all that
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Bogball XV on March 20, 2010, 07:28:29 PM
Parks is doing exactly what O'Gara would do in the same circumstances.

Well done to Scotland, a well deserved victory
agree, but since they have a clock, why don't they stop it under these circumstances - it's obvious that some players take longer at certain stages of the game, so they could easily put a stop to this.  It's possible that in the past the ref would have added time for this sort of time wasting, but obviously he doesn't anymore.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 20, 2010, 07:30:33 PM
90 seconds alloted to a kick.

Did Rog have a perfect penalty record 11/11?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 20, 2010, 07:36:35 PM
90 seconds alloted to a kick.

One minute.

Quote
The kicker must take the kick within one minute from the time the kicker has indicated an intention to kick.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 20, 2010, 07:57:34 PM
WELL DONE TO THE IRFU MINOR SLAM AND DOUBLE CROWN CHAMPIONS 2010

 :D :D :D :D

Couldn't have put it any better myself ros!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Bogball XV on March 20, 2010, 08:00:07 PM
90 seconds alloted to a kick.

One minute.

Quote
The kicker must take the kick within one minute from the time the kicker has indicated an intention to kick.
so, if more than one minute elapses, what is the ref supposed to do (if he's applying the letter of the law).  Ireland were awful today btw and have frequently played on the edges of fairness etc, so I'm not blaming the ref for todays defeat.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 20, 2010, 08:03:18 PM
A period of one minute between the indication of intention to kick at goal and the actual kick is well inside the zone of "undue delay".

So 90 seconds is grand, it's on the edge. :)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on March 20, 2010, 08:23:45 PM
Another kick in the arse.
Ireland need to go back to basics a little.
You need to earn the right to fling the ball around the place and try the fancy stuff. Against England and Wales they got away with being casual with the ball because they got a few handy tries without going through the phases.

Ireland still need to work like the underdog, regardless of the opposition.
They should have kept the lineouts short and tight and put the ball up the jumper for a while when Scotland looked like getting a foothold in the game.
The team played like they were entitled to run in tries without much groundwork.

At least they have a few months to sort out the scrum.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: tyroneboi on March 20, 2010, 08:46:41 PM
With all this talk of the Irish scrum being pretty poor, what exactly is the problem? I only ask because I am no expert with the scrum and don't know the ins and outs of it. Is is purely down to the front row? Is it technique? Or is it a combination of things? It just goes to show how important the set piece is in rugby. To a certain extent you can get away with having an off day with one of the lineout or scrum but when the two are going wrong it is very hard to win a match at any level never mind at international level.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Declan on March 20, 2010, 09:03:13 PM
Golden Generation certainly blew it today. Really disappointing and very few good things at all happened. Remember this Scottish team lost to Italy.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 20, 2010, 09:11:43 PM
Remember this Scottish team lost to Italy.

True but they did beat Australia last November and probably should have beaten both Wales and England this year. They are very well organised and gritty and if you are a bit off your game against them like Ireland were today it can cost you.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 20, 2010, 09:20:52 PM
What exactly does John Hayes do, apart from the scrum?
I was trying to follow his progress, but got quickly bored as he trotted from one place to the next around the fringes.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: muppet on March 20, 2010, 09:38:04 PM
What exactly does John Hayes do, apart from the scrum?
I was trying to follow his progress, but got quickly bored as he trotted from one place to the next around the fringes.

He is the reason O'Connell dominates in the air.

It looked to me that we decided to go for it from the start. Loads of tries was the plan. We showed lots of flair for 20 minutes as the Scots sat back, watched our exciting but error ridden play do nothing to the scoreboard and they took their limited opportunities. Once they had a lead to defend they grew into a performance very few people thought they had in them.

They deserved their win but we got it wrong from the off. You go after the big score only when you have the game won.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 20, 2010, 10:08:02 PM
Golden Generation certainly blew it today. Really disappointing and very few good things at all happened. Remember this Scottish team lost to Italy.

True but they gave France a decent test and should have beaten Wales and England. In truth should have beaten Italy as well, just failed to put their chances away and were caught when the Italians broke away for a late try. 1 point from 4 games didnt reflect Scotland's season going into the game today. If Ireland did indeed go into the match expecting to win and to be able to throw it around and run up a big score then they hadnt done their homework. Doubt that was the case though.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: longrunsthefox on March 20, 2010, 10:27:40 PM
Another welcome nail in the coffin of O'Gara's international career :)

Tremendous work by Sexton.

Just home from game... You are kidding? Sexton lost Ireland the game with his missed penalties. Very frustrating and kicked away nine points against England as well but they got away with it that time.
Ireland were very flat for a lot of the game though like maybe believed could win when they decided to turn it on... after all Italy beat Scotland.
Anyway Croke Park and rugby no more... had my reservations about it at the time but it was good and the sky didn't fall in. Will be near impossible to get tickets in future as well. was reading the GAA made equivalent of £222,000 a week since they first opened Croke Park... how's that for apples Michael Greenan?     
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: stephenite on March 20, 2010, 10:55:30 PM
Another welcome nail in the coffin of O'Gara's international career :)

Tremendous work by Sexton.

It appears Sexton doesn't have the experience to cope at this level, at leaset yet. O'Gara will be hanging around for his 100 caps I think.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 20, 2010, 10:57:54 PM
Another welcome nail in the coffin of O'Gara's international career :)

Tremendous work by Sexton.

It appears Sexton doesn't have the experience to cope at this level, at leaset yet. O'Gara will be hanging around for his 100 caps I think.

Yea I reckon he'll get another 2 games as well!!  :D :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Hound on March 20, 2010, 11:16:07 PM
Kidney rightly fooked up with his changes (or lack thereof).

Dead right to bring on O'Gara when he did, but it should have been D'Arcy who left the field. He was starting to struggle with his injury and Sexton was playing far better than Darce anyway.

O'Connell has had a mediocre 6 Nations and that was probably his worst performance (maybe ever in the green jersey). If O'Callaghan had played as bad as POC did, then Cullen would certainly have been brought on, but Kidney didnt have the balls to take O'Connell off. Likewise Wallace should have been taken off.

Also Buckley should have been brought on much earlier. And the excuse of not bringing on Cronin coz of his lack of experience is just nonsense. How the hell do you get expericence when you don't play? Cronin is a super player in the loose - and the lineout or scrum couldnt have got any worse with him there.

I put that loss down to Kidney. He's a fantastic Plan A coach, the best in the northern hemisphere. But thinking on his feet during a game to come up with Plan B is a skill he doesnt have.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: stephenite on March 20, 2010, 11:20:19 PM
Another welcome nail in the coffin of O'Gara's international career :)

Tremendous work by Sexton.

It appears Sexton doesn't have the experience to cope at this level, at leaset yet. O'Gara will be hanging around for his 100 caps I think.

Yea I reckon he'll get another 2 games as well!!  :D :D

Thought yesterday was his 90th cap :-\
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 20, 2010, 11:27:31 PM
Another welcome nail in the coffin of O'Gara's international career :)

Tremendous work by Sexton.

It appears Sexton doesn't have the experience to cope at this level, at leaset yet. O'Gara will be hanging around for his 100 caps I think.

Yea I reckon he'll get another 2 games as well!!  :D :D

Thought yesterday was his 90th cap :-\
Nope today was his 98th... barring injury he'll make the ton on the summer tour
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 21, 2010, 12:36:09 AM
Sexton is a handy player but he is not the second coming of Christ. The reality is there is nobody else to take the goal kicks, so until Sexton gets his head back in that game he is off the team. The same would be true the other way round with O'Gara. There is a triple crown on the line next week which is something more important than the ego and confidence of the outhalf.

Well said Capt Pat. Sextons kicking will come round but we will never get that triple crown back.

I hate to say I told you so lads. Rory Bests line out throwing and complacency were the other key factors. The silver lining in the cloud of complacency, it is that the Irish have lost interest in winning meaningless triple crowns, it is the 6 nations championship and grand slams that count.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: longrunsthefox on March 21, 2010, 12:39:52 AM
Sexton is a handy player but he is not the second coming of Christ. The reality is there is nobody else to take the goal kicks, so until Sexton gets his head back in that game he is off the team. The same would be true the other way round with O'Gara. There is a triple crown on the line next week which is something more important than the ego and confidence of the outhalf.

Well said Capt Pat. Sextons kicking will come round but we will never get that triple crown back.

I hate to say I told you so lads. Rory Bests line out throwing and complacency were the other key factors. The silver lining in the cloud of complacency, it is that the Irish have lost interest in winning meaningless triple crowns, it is the 6 nations championship and grand slams that count.

I can't agree with that about the triple crown... ain't the top prize but I am sure they really wanted to win it. I think the complaceny was more to do with the opposition rather than the prize at stake.  The supporters were certainly very disapointed and not that long ago triple crowns were very hard to come by
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 21, 2010, 01:01:19 AM
O' Driscoll has done very little in this 6 nations championship, hopefully he is just sparing himself for the world cup in les than 18 months. Heaslip Earls and Bowe have continued to develop into world class performers, while Rob Kearney too a step back but like Sextons goal kicking I expect that is only temporary. After the success of last year with grand slams and European Cups and Lions tours I think the Irish team has gone off the boil but it is far from finished.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 21, 2010, 01:06:58 AM
O' Driscoll has done very little in this 6 nations championship, hopefully he is just sparing himself for the world cup in les than 18 months. Heaslip Earls and Bowe have continued to develop into world class performers, while Rob Kearney too a step back but like Sextons goal kicking I expect that is only temporary. After the success of last year with grand slams and European Cups and Lions tours I think the Irish team has gone off the boil but it is far from finished.

Silly statment to begin with but that apart would agree with the rest of it
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 21, 2010, 01:07:42 AM
By his own high standards should have been included.

Keep Sexton for the test against the All Blacks and hope his kicking improves, he gives us a chance of beating them.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 21, 2010, 09:19:20 AM
I find out-half debates after a game like that tedious, you could have had Dan Carter playing 10 yesterday and Ireland would have still lost because the attitude, work-rate and committment of the players was all wrong. The Scottish back-row were immense and man for man outplayer their Irish counter-parts. We were also dominated at collision time.

I'd expect massive changes for the Summer but Kidney needs to address his loyalty to players and his replacement policy. Best, Hayes and D'Arcy were awful awful yesterday and should have been replaced, it was a joke to see Buckley come on with 1 minute to go. It's no surprise to see younger hungry players like Earls and Bowe thrive and older players look disinterested at times.

Our leaders BOD and POC have had poor 6 nations, enivitable after a Lions Tour I suppose. We're at a cross-roads and it's now time to Kidney to give us direction and a road-map of the future and he needs to develop new leaders.

I love Croke Park for football and hurling but it's too big for rugby, you spend more time looking at the big screens than the game and I'm looking forward to the return to Lansdowne Road.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Hardy on March 21, 2010, 09:30:54 AM
I find it a bit disrespectful to Scotland that all the analyses of their win point to deficiencies in Ireland's performance. Scotland were superb and while I know feck all about rugby tactics, it seemed to me that Robinson was a move ahead of Kidney at every stage of the game.

Whatever about what rugby people seem to have to call scrum time and line out time etc. (where the hell did that come out of?) I thought the biggest factor was that we were out-thought at think time.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: CiKe on March 21, 2010, 02:21:29 PM
I'd disgaree with Dinny to an extent although he knows a lot more about rugby than me. Fly half has to be able to do the bread and butter. Sexton currently can't do it consistently, and to my mind as much as anything that contributed to Ireland flinging the ball about with a bit more abandon than usual. They don't trust him to land them and were too anxious in looking for tries. If O'Gara had played we'd have played a more patient game. Impossible to say whether we would have won or not

A long way to go, but at this stage what way do people think we are looking for WC? With Fitzgerald to come back I'd be very surprised if Darcy was in the match day 22, though not quite sure what our best way of reshuffling the backs are.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: INDIANA on March 21, 2010, 05:59:47 PM
I'd disgaree with Dinny to an extent although he knows a lot more about rugby than me. Fly half has to be able to do the bread and butter. Sexton currently can't do it consistently, and to my mind as much as anything that contributed to Ireland flinging the ball about with a bit more abandon than usual. They don't trust him to land them and were too anxious in looking for tries. If O'Gara had played we'd have played a more patient game. Impossible to say whether we would have won or not

A long way to go, but at this stage what way do people think we are looking for WC? With Fitzgerald to come back I'd be very surprised if Darcy was in the match day 22, though not quite sure what our best way of reshuffling the backs are.

Same as ever. A Quarter final exit. that was made clear yesterday. When it comes to the crunch this team can't cash the chips.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 21, 2010, 06:14:30 PM
I'd disgaree with Dinny to an extent although he knows a lot more about rugby than me. Fly half has to be able to do the bread and butter. Sexton currently can't do it consistently, and to my mind as much as anything that contributed to Ireland flinging the ball about with a bit more abandon than usual. They don't trust him to land them and were too anxious in looking for tries. If O'Gara had played we'd have played a more patient game. Impossible to say whether we would have won or not

A long way to go, but at this stage what way do people think we are looking for WC? With Fitzgerald to come back I'd be very surprised if Darcy was in the match day 22, though not quite sure what our best way of reshuffling the backs are.

Same as ever. A Quarter final exit. that was made clear yesterday. When it comes to the crunch this team can't cash the chips.

In response to that statement please explain Grand Slam match last year in Cardiff and to a less extent, final few minutes of Autumn Internationals against Australia
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 21, 2010, 07:07:04 PM
Quote
I'd disgaree with Dinny to an extent although he knows a lot more about rugby than me. Fly half has to be able to do the bread and butter. Sexton currently can't do it consistently, and to my mind as much as anything that contributed to Ireland flinging the ball about with a bit more abandon than usual. They don't trust him to land them and were too anxious in looking for tries. If O'Gara had played we'd have played a more patient game. Impossible to say whether we would have won or not

Cike, your opinion is as valid as mine, I would just look for different things, team work-rate is something I value very highly, if a team is not looking for work and they weren't yesterday they will struggle no matter who is playing 10.

Now I've seen Sexton over the years and personally do not believe he's the 2nd coming but O'Gara is at the end his career and Sexton who only this season has become 1st choice at Leinster and that has been interrupted by injury so he hasn't had clear run to build confidence and rhythm. Ireland though need to evolve from the structured inspired rugby of the last 5 years and Sexton general play and defence puts him in pole position he just needs experience which would make the bread and butter stuff a lot easier.

Ireland at the moment need instrutions from the side-line and it's all rugby by numbers with very little heads up rugby been played only BOD seems to have that licence and our forwards seem to have it all coached out of them.

Anyhow, I'm sure Kidney is aware of that and our next 6/7 matches will be all about new players and a new style. Expect to see a new Tight-head, 2nd-Row and 7 up front, badly need a new 7. BOD to move inside to 12 with Earls at 13 and a couple of young guns to break through, maybe Conway, Fleix Jones, Nevin Spenc even McFadden.

Congrats to the U20s who won their 6 nations title by the way, back boned by Leinster as always  ;)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 21, 2010, 07:16:01 PM
Congrats to the U20s who won their 6 nations title by the way, back boned by Leinster as always  ;)

Indeed, a fact that got very much overlooked over the the weekend, a great achievement which bodes well (hopefully) for the future
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: trileacman on March 21, 2010, 07:19:48 PM
After the six nations you do get a feeling we are back to square 1.Had a real SN '07 feel to this championship.

Rory Best came and did what he does best, destroy the Irish lineout. We now have to go back to flannery.
Sexton has be measured and found wanting. I attribute the final defeat to him. He only gives the team one direction and is no good during a losing battle. ROG had to rescue the English game following his preformance and unfortunately the game was to far gone for ROG to do it again.
If you watched the French match you'll have seen Trinh-Duc play a defensive game, electing to kick away possession despite having the more potent attacking backline. He did this because he wanted to win and he knew how to protect a lead and play safe. Sexton has not displayed such qualities. Qualities that ROG has in spades. The points kicking scenario doesnt bother me as much as Sexton's lack of control. ROG knows when to kick and when to run, he relieves pressure and his style brings the more dominant Irish line-out (usually) to the fore and gets the forwards more involved. Sexton justs runs the play time and again irrespective of the situation or scoreline. It's hero or zero rugby. Sexton can still become a good international fly-half but he remains some way off and until such time he's not ready to lead this team from fly-half.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 21, 2010, 07:34:34 PM
Sorry did I miss something and O'Gara was fantastic against France or was it as I actually remember an ineptitude display and trhe worst 10 performance of the 6 nations.

O'Gara was a great servant but time does not stand still so whether you agree or this agree Sexton is there to stay hopefully McKinney or Keatly can step up but when you seem such talented players such as Stauton and Andy Dunne fail to make it, you have to wonder we're they going to come from.  7,9 and 10 - that is where Ireland are stuggling to develop talent.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: INDIANA on March 21, 2010, 07:43:11 PM
I'd disgaree with Dinny to an extent although he knows a lot more about rugby than me. Fly half has to be able to do the bread and butter. Sexton currently can't do it consistently, and to my mind as much as anything that contributed to Ireland flinging the ball about with a bit more abandon than usual. They don't trust him to land them and were too anxious in looking for tries. If O'Gara had played we'd have played a more patient game. Impossible to say whether we would have won or not

A long way to go, but at this stage what way do people think we are looking for WC? With Fitzgerald to come back I'd be very surprised if Darcy was in the match day 22, though not quite sure what our best way of reshuffling the backs are.

Same as ever. A Quarter final exit. that was made clear yesterday. When it comes to the crunch this team can't cash the chips.

In response to that statement please explain Grand Slam match last year in Cardiff and to a less extent, final few minutes of Autumn Internationals against Australia

Easily done. You're all talking about beating Australia in a high octane pressure game in the SH where we haven't won since the 70's in the 2011 WC.
We have no scrum and a lineout that cracks when put under serious pressure. We also have an ageing team. People are expecting miracles from guys in their mid 30's who have been to the well so often now its unfair to keep expecting miracles from them.
I think we've missed our cycle with this team. I'd be far more confident of doing well in 2015.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 21, 2010, 07:46:04 PM
Same as ever. A Quarter final exit. that was made clear yesterday. When it comes to the crunch this team can't cash the chips.

In response to that statement please explain Grand Slam match last year in Cardiff and to a less extent, final few minutes of Autumn Internationals against Australia

Easily done. You're all talking about beating Australia in a high octane pressure game in the SH where we haven't won since the 70's in the 2011 WC.
We have no scrum and a lineout that cracks when put under serious pressure. We also have an ageing team. People are expecting miracles from guys in their mid 30's who have been to the well so often now its unfair to keep expecting miracles from them.
I think we've missed our cycle with this team. I'd be far more confident of doing well in 2015.

That's why I said to a lesser extent, with THAT match in Cardiff last year being the prime example of Ireland taking care of business when the chips are down
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 21, 2010, 07:53:00 PM
Congrats to the U20s who won their 6 nations title by the way, back boned by Leinster as always  ;)

Indeed, a fact that got very much overlooked over the the weekend, a great achievement which bodes well (hopefully) for the future

Two Connacht lads on the team as well which is nice.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 21, 2010, 08:11:24 PM
Quote
Two Connacht lads on the team as well which is nice.

Easily could have been more, youths rugby in Connacht is very strong at the moment so hopefully that will start to bear fruit.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 21, 2010, 08:32:44 PM
By the time of the WC, Sexton should be well established.
As much as Sexton deserved a run out in this series, it was foolish for some to already dismiss O'Gara as a has been for us.
There is much I don't understand about the game of rugby but I just can't see what Hayes offers now to the team that somebody else couldn't.



Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: magickingdom on March 21, 2010, 08:36:25 PM
Shutter island is creepy and dark and I can understand people not being into that type of movie, it probably got worse before the end in terms of darkness and creepiness. I did think it was entertaining and I have seen it twice, it reallly does grab your attention. It is a must see movie. I am surprised you could not get through the whole thing, did you download it. You should have gone to the cinema.

couldnt agree more...

it was also a horror for johnny sexton to make his 6 nations debut against england in twickenham, i think kidney has damaged his confidence big time by doing that and we paid the price yesterday
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 21, 2010, 08:39:04 PM
You are right about Hayes good Buckley bad, there is no real difference between them now. John Hayes is Tony Buckley with 100 caps. In the same way people are talking about Sexton getting experienceI thnk Buckley should be given the chance to develop.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 21, 2010, 09:05:57 PM
Tomas O'Leary was the standout scrumhalf in the 6 Nations in terms of fantasy points in the Irish Times League. This is not a true measure of a players value but does tell you that he got things done during the 6 nations.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 21, 2010, 09:17:10 PM
And the Hask, would have brought in Parra two weeks alas made a balls of my transfers in the first week...poor management from me..

Those Derry feckers will be happy too...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on March 21, 2010, 09:55:45 PM

If you watched the French match you'll have seen Trinh-Duc play a defensive game, electing to kick away possession despite having the more potent attacking backline. He did this because he wanted to win and he knew how to protect a lead and play safe. Sexton has not displayed such qualities. Qualities that ROG has in spades. The points kicking scenario doesnt bother me as much as Sexton's lack of control. ROG knows when to kick and when to run, he relieves pressure and his style brings the more dominant Irish line-out (usually) to the fore and gets the forwards more involved. Sexton justs runs the play time and again irrespective of the situation or scoreline. It's hero or zero rugby. Sexton can still become a good international fly-half but he remains some way off and until such time he's not ready to lead this team from fly-half.
That's certainly not how I remembered the French game!
According to scrum.com Trinh-Duc carried the ball 83 metres while O'Gara ran 0 metres (forward I presume) with it.
http://www.scrum.com/sixnations/rugby/match/94947.html
He certainly knew when not to run with it anyway!   ;)

The French game also featured Ireland going through loads of phases and not making inroads in the French 22, some of this was down to O'Gara being too deep when receiving the ball and distributed it without ever fixing a French defender in the tackle. Meaning that the first thing the next Irish player had to do was make up lost yards and beat a spare defender.

Sexton's goal kicking problems may have created a confidence crisis for him. The best option might now be to play him at 12 and leave O'Gara at 10 to take the goal and tactical responsibilities.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Bord na Mona man on March 21, 2010, 09:58:30 PM
You are right about Hayes good Buckley bad, there is no real difference between them now. John Hayes is Tony Buckley with 100 caps. In the same way people are talking about Sexton getting experienceI thnk Buckley should be given the chance to develop.
Buckley looks decent enough in open play. He could deliver a turnover or too and generally cause hassle.
I'd chance him for Ireland and see if he can learn how to scrum.
He couldn't make it much worse...

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: mc_grens on March 21, 2010, 10:32:05 PM
Surely alot of the woes suffered by both 10's in this championship have to be linked to a pack which has more often than not been on the back foot?

We've had poor possesion, a wobbly scrum, and most of our tries have cone through individual brilliance in midfield and the back 3.

We're in trouble at 7 with Wally starting to show his age against quality opposition, we're fucked in the front row, and we're strangely static and lacking in impact at the breakdown.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: trileacman on March 21, 2010, 11:41:53 PM

If you watched the French match you'll have seen Trinh-Duc play a defensive game, electing to kick away possession despite having the more potent attacking backline. He did this because he wanted to win and he knew how to protect a lead and play safe. Sexton has not displayed such qualities. Qualities that ROG has in spades. The points kicking scenario doesnt bother me as much as Sexton's lack of control. ROG knows when to kick and when to run, he relieves pressure and his style brings the more dominant Irish line-out (usually) to the fore and gets the forwards more involved. Sexton justs runs the play time and again irrespective of the situation or scoreline. It's hero or zero rugby. Sexton can still become a good international fly-half but he remains some way off and until such time he's not ready to lead this team from fly-half.
That's certainly not how I remembered the French game!
According to scrum.com Trinh-Duc carried the ball 83 metres while O'Gara ran 0 metres (forward I presume) with it.
http://www.scrum.com/sixnations/rugby/match/94947.html
He certainly knew when not to run with it anyway!   ;)

The French game also featured Ireland going through loads of phases and not making inroads in the French 22, some of this was down to O'Gara being too deep when receiving the ball and distributed it without ever fixing a French defender in the tackle. Meaning that the first thing the next Irish player had to do was make up lost yards and beat a spare defender.

Sexton's goal kicking problems may have created a confidence crisis for him. The best option might now be to play him at 12 and leave O'Gara at 10 to take the goal and tactical responsibilities.
I was talking about the England-French match but I'm glad you brought up the French game. I think Kidney got the tactics spot on in the French game and he was undone by two moments of madness, Flannery and Healy. Ireland were defending well and showing a decent cutting edge, creating some good chances. Also Rog's style may have stifled our attacking game (compared to Sexton) but his kicking was also stifing the French attack, peging them back into area's of the field were they coudn't attack at will, keeping the ball out of Jauzion's hands and giving Poitrenaud ball from which he couldn't counter attack. Say we had been able to play Sexton, an open game against the French and alot of knock-on scrums (as seen yesterday) would have led to a massacre.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: trileacman on March 21, 2010, 11:57:38 PM
Sorry did I miss something and O'Gara was fantastic against France or was it as I actually remember an ineptitude display and trhe worst 10 performance of the 6 nations.

O'Gara was a great servant but time does not stand still so whether you agree or this agree Sexton is there to stay hopefully McKinney or Keatly can step up but when you seem such talented players such as Stauton and Andy Dunne fail to make it, you have to wonder we're they going to come from.  7,9 and 10 - that is where Ireland are stuggling to develop talent.
The worst ten preformance of the 6 nations? Did you watch much of it? Rog was worse than Wilkinson or Gower? If ROG was such a liablity why did he have to be parachuted in twice against England and Scotland to win the match? We on one six nations match with Sexton at the helm. One. And here you are lambasting ROG for being the outhalf during the defeat to the champions. IMO Sexton is being foisted upon this team and whilst I think he should be given his chance he has clearly been found wanting.
"Time does not stand still". A Shakespeare quote is no reason to play your second best outhalf in international rugby. I don't see why people should consider Sexton's "development" more important than the fortunes of the Irish side. The way I see it now is the team thought they were getting a new out-half but instead we've been sold a second 3/4. Sexton needs to go back to leinster, sort out his game and return when he's ready to take on all the roles of an international fly-half.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 22, 2010, 10:19:10 AM
You extoll his virtues yet fail to recognsce his limitations which were so apparent in the French game, beating France in Paris is the bench mark we set ourselves, O'Gara has never delivered that and has never delivered in a World Cup, short-term pain is worth a lot more than short-term success.

People seem to want Sexton to fail, a mind-set I'll never understand.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: INDIANA on March 22, 2010, 11:04:00 AM
You extoll his virtues yet fail to recognsce his limitations which were so apparent in the French game, beating France in Paris is the bench mark we set ourselves, O'Gara has never delivered that and has never delivered in a World Cup, short-term pain is worth a lot more than short-term success.

People seem to want Sexton to fail, a mind-set I'll never understand.

Saw some Irish fans booing his goalkicks and saw others booing ROG's kicks. And some rugby fans look down on GAA fans. :D.

I have never attended a sporting occasion like Saturday where fans boo their own player. Unbelievable. It was actually quite disgusting.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Olaf on March 22, 2010, 11:53:05 AM
You extoll his virtues yet fail to recognsce his limitations which were so apparent in the French game, beating France in Paris is the bench mark we set ourselves, O'Gara has never delivered that and has never delivered in a World Cup, short-term pain is worth a lot more than short-term success.

People seem to want Sexton to fail, a mind-set I'll never understand.

Saw some Irish fans booing his goalkicks and saw others booing ROG's kicks. And some rugby fans look down on GAA fans. :D.

I have never attended a sporting occasion like Saturday where fans boo their own player. Unbelievable. It was actually quite disgusting.

Booing of Parks' when taking the  winning kick was bad form too. Very uncommon at any rugby match. Fans let themselves down.

Scotland fully  deserved it and any other result would have been a travesty IMHO.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: bingobus on March 22, 2010, 11:59:13 AM
You extoll his virtues yet fail to recognsce his limitations which were so apparent in the French game, beating France in Paris is the bench mark we set ourselves, O'Gara has never delivered that and has never delivered in a World Cup, short-term pain is worth a lot more than short-term success.

People seem to want Sexton to fail, a mind-set I'll never understand.

Saw some Irish fans booing his goalkicks and saw others booing ROG's kicks. And some rugby fans look down on GAA fans. :D.

I have never attended a sporting occasion like Saturday where fans boo their own player. Unbelievable. It was actually quite disgusting.

Surely not. Rugby fans are all brillant, fun, loyal, sporting and one of a kind.

Must have been nasty soccer fans that got in by mistake.

Ireland looked like a team that just expected to turn up and win without too much effort. When Scotland met them head on, they couldn't raise there game enough to pull out a win. Very surprising display from a kidney team. Maybe the players are already in Heineken cup mode.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: INDIANA on March 22, 2010, 12:10:14 PM
You extoll his virtues yet fail to recognsce his limitations which were so apparent in the French game, beating France in Paris is the bench mark we set ourselves, O'Gara has never delivered that and has never delivered in a World Cup, short-term pain is worth a lot more than short-term success.

People seem to want Sexton to fail, a mind-set I'll never understand.

Saw some Irish fans booing his goalkicks and saw others booing ROG's kicks. And some rugby fans look down on GAA fans. :D.

I have never attended a sporting occasion like Saturday where fans boo their own player. Unbelievable. It was actually quite disgusting.

Surely not. Rugby fans are all brillant, fun, loyal, sporting and one of a kind.

Must have been nasty soccer fans that got in by mistake.

Ireland looked like a team that just expected to turn up and win without too much effort. When Scotland met them head on, they couldn't raise there game enough to pull out a win. Very surprising display from a kidney team. Maybe the players are already in Heineken cup mode.
Typical of the Leinster v munster rivalry at the moment. Like a crowd of kids. They'd want someone from the other province to miss even if it meant their country losing. Comical. But quite disgusing as well.
I was astonished at how many people sang Irealnds call with gusto yet didn't sing Amhran na Bhfiann. The scottish fans thought this was hilarious.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: longrunsthefox on March 22, 2010, 12:13:36 PM
You extoll his virtues yet fail to recognsce his limitations which were so apparent in the French game, beating France in Paris is the bench mark we set ourselves, O'Gara has never delivered that and has never delivered in a World Cup, short-term pain is worth a lot more than short-term success.

People seem to want Sexton to fail, a mind-set I'll never understand.

Saw some Irish fans booing his goalkicks and saw others booing ROG's kicks. And some rugby fans look down on GAA fans. :D.

I have never attended a sporting occasion like Saturday where fans boo their own player. Unbelievable. It was actually quite disgusting.

I was at the game and didn't hear any Irish supporters booing ROG's or Johny Sexton's kicks. Certainly not in the vicinity  of the lower Cusack. Maybe it was a few Scottish supporters. If it is true, that is the pits and can't be considered as Irish supporters. That is something I have never encountered in any sport... booing as they take a free kick though I have heard 'supporters' boo their own players in GAA
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: johnneycool on March 22, 2010, 12:14:11 PM
Scotland have improved and were unlucky/stupid in some of their games this year whereas Ireland have tread water and maybe the pack/scrum is probably the worst in the 6N's
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Olaf on March 22, 2010, 12:22:59 PM
Scotland have improved and were unlucky/stupid in some of their games this year whereas Ireland have tread water and maybe the pack/scrum is probably the worst in the 6N's

Very true. Man for man (maybe apart from the respective wingers) every Scottish player was  better than their Irish counter-part.

Never thought that I'd be in a position where I was actually thinking it may be a good idea to bring on O'Gara. The manner of the  substitution was comical.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 22, 2010, 12:44:39 PM
You extoll his virtues yet fail to recognsce his limitations which were so apparent in the French game, beating France in Paris is the bench mark we set ourselves, O'Gara has never delivered that and has never delivered in a World Cup, short-term pain is worth a lot more than short-term success.

People seem to want Sexton to fail, a mind-set I'll never understand.

O'Gara was a part of a winning side in Paris.

He is 33? now and still (as we could clearly see) has an invaluable contribution to make from the bench.
If Johnny surpasses  O'Gara's performances for Ireland, he will indeed be regarded as a superb player.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 22, 2010, 01:06:05 PM
He started and failed to deliver, Humphrey's brought that good ship home. Out-half play has evolved, if it was just about kicking your points and playing the corners well then O'Gara is your man, he is a liability in defence, has no break and is poor of his left. I have no problem with him been part of a squad but he should not start any game Ireland needs to move forward and O'Gara needs to guide Sexton, not compete with him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: mc_grens on March 22, 2010, 01:33:19 PM
I'm a huge ROG fan, but we must think of the future. This whole situation is very similar to when Stephen Larkham came into the Australian side. He had very similar strengths and weaknesses to Johnny Sexton.

They kept the faith, he worked on his game, and the Aussies ended up with one of the greatest Out Halves of all time.

Sexton is young, and he'll learn. But we must give him a chance to do that.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Olaf on March 22, 2010, 02:28:04 PM
He started and failed to deliver, Humphrey's brought that good ship home. Out-half play has evolved, if it was just about kicking your points and playing the corners well then O'Gara is your man, but he should not start any game Ireland needs to move forward and O'Gara needs to guide Sexton, not compete with him.

In reality that is all that he has ever been able to do. Sometimes he does it well , sometimes not.(more common in recent years)

To start any game with O'Gara at this stage is a hugely regressive step.

That said, sexton's place kicking at the moment is tosh.





Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 22, 2010, 02:29:19 PM
I hope Johnny uses his time well to listens and learn from O'Gara  :)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: INDIANA on March 22, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
He started and failed to deliver, Humphrey's brought that good ship home. Out-half play has evolved, if it was just about kicking your points and playing the corners well then O'Gara is your man, he is a liability in defence, has no break and is poor of his left. I have no problem with him been part of a squad but he should not start any game Ireland needs to move forward and O'Gara needs to guide Sexton, not compete with him.
I would have agreed with you up to last weekend. But ROG will start against NZ. You can put your house on it. You have to kick your goals at this level and thus ROG will get the nod. Sexton has miles more to his game but until he kicks his goals ROG will start for the next few games. I have no doubts on that with Kidney picking the team. Parks is incredibly limited but he can kick and thats why Ruairi Jackson isn't starting for Scotland.

The manner of the substitiute was a disgrace- heart went out to Sexton. It was absolutely embarrassing for the chap. Showed the panic on the line as well.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 22, 2010, 06:52:04 PM
Ahh sure Saturday's match didn't really matter anyway...  ;)

Ireland still fifth in IRB World Rankings


Ireland remain in fifth place in the IRB World Rankings despite their RBS 6 Nations defeat to Scotland on Saturday.

Declan Kidney's men are still the second highest ranked European team in the IRB rankings despite suffering their second loss of the tournament.

They were also beaten in their Round Two clash against France.

France, crowned Grand Slam Champions on Saturday, are still fourth in the table but are just .13 of a point behind third ranked nation Australia.

Southern Hemisphere giants New Zealand and South Africa are still ranked first and second.

England (7), Wales (8) and Italy (11) remain unchanged while Scotland's victory over Ireland liftss them above Fiji and from 10th into 9th.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on March 22, 2010, 07:52:12 PM
I think we're codding ourselves with all this talk of building for WC 2011, as if we have a chance of winning it, or even reaching a final/semi final.

At the moment I think Ireland will be the 7th best team in the World Cup, as New Zealand, South Africa and France are on a different planet to Ireland when it comes to the big games.

I also think the likes of Australia, Wales and England will put in bigger WC performances than ourselves.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the rugby media are so desperate for us to be successful, especially on the back of Leinster and Munster's exploits that they talk us up to be a lot more than we actually are, which is on an international stage just not good enough. Fair enough we have O'Driscoll, who is a bona fide legend, but how many other Irish players would get into a World Cup 'best of' team? Don't give me Rob Kearney or Tommy Bowe. They're grand and good players, but not truly top class. Also, Paulie is a ligind for Munster and at an Irish 6 Nations level, but put him alongside the likes of Botha and he pales into the background.

Our pack in general is not in the top 7 or 8 in the world in my opinion, and we don't have a back row that can truly compete with the worlds best. Harinordoquay (sp?), Burger, McCaw, Deusetoir and others must smile to themselves when they are compared to Ferris, Wallace and even Heaslip (who I do rate, but strikes me as a lad who needs a rocket up the backside). The Scottish back row is a far better unit, and while I have great, great time for Wallace, he is not a 7. He's a powerful ball carrier, but he's not a 7.

I think this Irish team is getting the best out of itself at the moment, which puts it comfortably in second place in the Northern Hemisphere now, but closer to England Wales and Scotland than they are to France. However with O'Connell, Wallace, O'Gara, O'Driscoll, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, D'Arcy all bubbling just below or over the 30 year old mark, with tonnes of caps between them, do we really think we'll be better in 18 months time, or worse? My money is on the latter.

The Heinekein Cup has masked a lot in that Munster's pack, for example, rarely gets obliterated but it occasionaly does. And that's a club level. When 5 or 6 of that pack are playing for Ireland against the pick of France, or God help us, South Africa or New Zealand, they just do not have the strength, mobility or dynamism of the really top packs.

Rocky Elsom, Trevor Halsted, Shaun Payne, Rua Tipoki and co have been instrumental in winning HECs for Leinster and Munster, none of them are Irish qualified.

Munster, Leinster and Ulster are very competitive at club level, and I think would be competitive against clubs from down under as well, but that does not map to the International stage. Essentially 4 clubs with the pick of the country, plus a few strategic additions have every right to be competitive.

I cannot see Irish rugby mixing it with the big boys at WC11, even if the likes of Fitzgerald, Healy, Sexton, Earls, Kearney, Bowe and co continue to develop, because I don't think our pack will ever be physical enough to really stand up to the heat of a World Cup kitchen.

Our backs are promising, but they are the spoilers, go faster stripes and spotlights on a Porsche. If the engine is a Mondeo, the car is still going to be beaten when it hits the race track.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 22, 2010, 07:56:55 PM
I think we're codding ourselves with all this talk of building for WC 2011, as if we have a chance of winning it, or even reaching a final/semi final.

At the moment I think Ireland will be the 7th best team in the World Cup, as New Zealand, South Africa and France are on a different planet to Ireland when it comes to the big games.

I also think the likes of Australia, Wales and England will put in bigger WC performances than ourselves.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the rugby media are so desperate for us to be successful, especially on the back of Leinster and Munster's exploits that they talk us up to be a lot more than we actually are, which is on an international stage just not good enough. Fair enough we have O'Driscoll, who is a bona fide legend, but how many other Irish players would get into a World Cup 'best of' team? Don't give me Rob Kearney or Tommy Bowe. They're grand and good players, but not truly top class. Also, Paulie is a ligind for Munster and at an Irish 6 Nations level, but put him alongside the likes of Botha and he pales into the background.

Our pack in general is not in the top 7 or 8 in the world in my opinion, and we don't have a back row that can truly compete with the worlds best. Harinordoquay (sp?), Burger, McCaw, Deusetoir and others must smile to themselves when they are compared to Ferris, Wallace and even Heaslip (who I do rate, but strikes me as a lad who needs a rocket up the backside). The Scottish back row is a far better unit, and while I have great, great time for Wallace, he is not a 7. He's a powerful ball carrier, but he's not a 7.

I think this Irish team is getting the best out of itself at the moment, which puts it comfortably in second place in the Northern Hemisphere now, but closer to England Wales and Scotland than they are to France. However with O'Connell, Wallace, O'Gara, O'Driscoll, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, D'Arcy all bubbling just below or over the 30 year old mark, with tonnes of caps between them, do we really think we'll be better in 18 months time, or worse? My money is on the latter.

The Heinekein Cup has masked a lot in that Munster's pack, for example, rarely gets obliterated but it occasionaly does. And that's a club level. When 5 or 6 of that pack are playing for Ireland against the pick of France, or God help us, South Africa or New Zealand, they just do not have the strength, mobility or dynamism of the really top packs.

Rocky Elsom, Trevor Halsted, Shaun Payne, Rua Tipoki and co have been instrumental in winning HECs for Leinster and Munster, none of them are Irish qualified.

Munster, Leinster and Ulster are very competitive at club level, and I think would be competitive against clubs from down under as well, but that does not map to the International stage. Essentially 4 clubs with the pick of the country, plus a few strategic additions have every right to be competitive.

I cannot see Irish rugby mixing it with the big boys at WC11, even if the likes of Fitzgerald, Healy, Sexton, Earls, Kearney, Bowe and co continue to develop, because I don't think our pack will ever be physical enough to really stand up to the heat of a World Cup kitchen.

Our backs are promising, but they are the spoilers, go faster stripes and spotlights on a Porsche. If the engine is a Mondeo, the car is still going to be beaten when it hits the race track.

Right so, how many Welsh and English players would make a world XV then?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 22, 2010, 08:17:58 PM
I would have to be a bit more optimistic than that AZ. I still think the core of the team will be good to go in 18 months. Maybe not Hayes and Wallace, put Buckley and Leamy in there in their places and the team gets a good bit younger. Look at the England team that won the world cup, it had a huge amount of experience. I would keep Hayes and Wallace for the bench or squad, wallace could still make a big impact off the bench.

We look to have more wings centres and full backs coming through from the unfer 20s and other sources. we could literally replace all of saturdays back 5 in the back in 18 months and not be at much of a loss.

The big question is where are the big quality forwards going to come from? Donacha Ryan, Devin Toner will maybe be good enough. Ferris Heaslip and Healy will be around for a while as well. Throw in Buckley and Leamy to complete a pack that could all be there at the next world cup. We are stil short a hooker and some of the big men of the quality of O'Callaghan and O'Connell in the second row. It is the front 5 that looks the weakest with Healy good around the park but not so good in the tight and Buckley questionable. We really need another O'Connell or Keith Wood type to emerge, and they do not seem to be coming through. leadership combined with ability like that is important to a team.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on March 22, 2010, 08:38:06 PM
I think we're codding ourselves with all this talk of building for WC 2011, as if we have a chance of winning it, or even reaching a final/semi final.

At the moment I think Ireland will be the 7th best team in the World Cup, as New Zealand, South Africa and France are on a different planet to Ireland when it comes to the big games.

I also think the likes of Australia, Wales and England will put in bigger WC performances than ourselves.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the rugby media are so desperate for us to be successful, especially on the back of Leinster and Munster's exploits that they talk us up to be a lot more than we actually are, which is on an international stage just not good enough. Fair enough we have O'Driscoll, who is a bona fide legend, but how many other Irish players would get into a World Cup 'best of' team? Don't give me Rob Kearney or Tommy Bowe. They're grand and good players, but not truly top class. Also, Paulie is a ligind for Munster and at an Irish 6 Nations level, but put him alongside the likes of Botha and he pales into the background.

Our pack in general is not in the top 7 or 8 in the world in my opinion, and we don't have a back row that can truly compete with the worlds best. Harinordoquay (sp?), Burger, McCaw, Deusetoir and others must smile to themselves when they are compared to Ferris, Wallace and even Heaslip (who I do rate, but strikes me as a lad who needs a rocket up the backside). The Scottish back row is a far better unit, and while I have great, great time for Wallace, he is not a 7. He's a powerful ball carrier, but he's not a 7.

I think this Irish team is getting the best out of itself at the moment, which puts it comfortably in second place in the Northern Hemisphere now, but closer to England Wales and Scotland than they are to France. However with O'Connell, Wallace, O'Gara, O'Driscoll, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, D'Arcy all bubbling just below or over the 30 year old mark, with tonnes of caps between them, do we really think we'll be better in 18 months time, or worse? My money is on the latter.

The Heinekein Cup has masked a lot in that Munster's pack, for example, rarely gets obliterated but it occasionaly does. And that's a club level. When 5 or 6 of that pack are playing for Ireland against the pick of France, or God help us, South Africa or New Zealand, they just do not have the strength, mobility or dynamism of the really top packs.

Rocky Elsom, Trevor Halsted, Shaun Payne, Rua Tipoki and co have been instrumental in winning HECs for Leinster and Munster, none of them are Irish qualified.

Munster, Leinster and Ulster are very competitive at club level, and I think would be competitive against clubs from down under as well, but that does not map to the International stage. Essentially 4 clubs with the pick of the country, plus a few strategic additions have every right to be competitive.

I cannot see Irish rugby mixing it with the big boys at WC11, even if the likes of Fitzgerald, Healy, Sexton, Earls, Kearney, Bowe and co continue to develop, because I don't think our pack will ever be physical enough to really stand up to the heat of a World Cup kitchen.

Our backs are promising, but they are the spoilers, go faster stripes and spotlights on a Porsche. If the engine is a Mondeo, the car is still going to be beaten when it hits the race track.

Right so, how many Welsh and English players would make a world XV then?

Not many, if any. But I have ourselves, England and Wales battling for 5th, 6th and 7th (maybe throw Argentina in there as well). That's where I see us being at the moment (probably 5th now, but heading south).
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: INDIANA on March 22, 2010, 08:43:00 PM
I would have to be a bit more optimistic than that AZ. I still think the core of the team will be good to go in 18 months. Maybe not Hayes and Wallace, put Buckley and Leamy in there in their places and the team gets a good bit younger. Look at the England team that won the world cup, it had a huge amount of experience. I would keep Hayes and Wallace for the bench or squad, wallace could still make a big impact off the bench.

We look to have more wings centres and full backs coming through from the unfer 20s and other sources. we could literally replace all of saturdays back 5 in the back in 18 months and not be at much of a loss.

The big question is where are the big quality forwards going to come from? Donacha Ryan, Devin Toner will maybe be good enough. Ferris Heaslip and Healy will be around for a while as well. Throw in Buckley and Leamy to complete a pack that could all be there at the next world cup. We are stil short a hooker and some of the big men of the quality of O'Callaghan and O'Connell in the second row. It is the front 5 that looks the weakest with Healy good around the park but not so good in the tight and Buckley questionable. We really need another O'Connell or Keith Wood type to emerge, and they do not seem to be coming through. leadership combined with ability like that is important to a team.

I think AZ is absolutely spot on. We are codding ourselves. This team is at the end of its cycle. I can't see us beating an Aussie team that will be peaking in 18mths. Just look at the Aussie's age profile. Perfect for 18mths. 2007 was this teams peak in terms of WC cycles.

Its like anything in sport the Aussies always get it right. They couldn't scummage- they now have made sure they can with the best scrum in the world.
We've known we can't scrummage for 2-3 years now and we've sat on our arses. Thats the difference. signing NIQ props at provincial level is an example of that. Why did the IRFU allow Leinster to sign Ross to provide central heating? He was better off at Harlequins because he was playing regularly. Ross can lock the scrum he can't do anything else but he can at least do that. He is by far the best tighthead available yet he'll never get a game for Leinster.
 Donncha Ryan must be about 27 now- why wasn't he told to move to get gametime elsewhere? Toner is not international standard. Rebuild job beckons soon enough. We'll make the quarter finals but I can't see making a  semi.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: INDIANA on March 22, 2010, 08:48:42 PM
Irish players to get make a world 15?

Tommy Bowe.


and I'll argue that till the cows come home with anyone. No one else period.

english players - none

Welsh-

Gethin Jenkins

Scotland- hard to make a case. Euan Murray on current form would make the shortlist.

That above indicates the value of a current triple crown. this is the worst English team in history. Wales have the worst pack in their history. Scotland have a limited 10 man game with an excellent backrow unit. Note the emphasis on unit rather than individuals
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 22, 2010, 08:58:00 PM
Irish players to get make a world 15?

Tommy Bowe.


and I'll argue that till the cows come home with anyone. No one else period.

english players - none

Welsh-

Gethin Jenkins

Scotland- hard to make a case. Euan Murray on current form would make the shortlist.

That above indicates the value of a current triple crown. this is the worst English team in history. Wales have the worst pack in their history. Scotland have a limited 10 man game with an excellent backrow unit. Note the emphasis on unit rather than individuals

yea I think I'd agree with that.  Don't think I'll bother making predictions about the World Cup for another 12 months at least too!!!  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: AZOffaly on March 22, 2010, 09:01:18 PM
Where would you play Bowe in a World XV INDIANA? I can't pick him ahead of Clerc or Habana to start with. I'd pick O'Driscoll for his defensive work as much as his line break at this stage, but the new enforcement of the tackle rule will hurt him more than most because he is so good at making the tackle and squirming around onto his feet to rob the ball, all in one movement.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: muppet on March 22, 2010, 09:07:58 PM
The 2 great under performers in this 6N were ourselves and Wales. Also interesting to note that 3 of France's last 4 Grand Slams came after Lions tours.

No surprise really since we both made up most of the Lions squad and it has been a long season. Some of our players will come back to themselves after a break (I'm thinking O'Connell in particular but also O'Driscoll, Keanrey and the back row). Oddly enough they might all benefit with an early exit from the HC.

Bowe is the one guy to stay fit and hold his form all the way through. He would easily made a world XV with probably O'Driscoll the only other shout.

As someone who always wants O'Callaghan starting I give a nod to his battling performance on Sat. If Leo Cullen should have come on (and maybe he should) it was for 5 and not 4. Of course the Scottish game would be more up O'Callaghan's street than say the Babas style we tried to play at the start.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: INDIANA on March 22, 2010, 09:50:49 PM
Where would you play Bowe in a World XV INDIANA? I can't pick him ahead of Clerc or Habana to start with. I'd pick O'Driscoll for his defensive work as much as his line break at this stage, but the new enforcement of the tackle rule will hurt him more than most because he is so good at making the tackle and squirming around onto his feet to rob the ball, all in one movement.
Bowe is ahead of Clerc on current form AZ. I'm judging BOD on this year not last year.
In his defence with our gameplan this year its impossible for centres to look good. But you have a point what other 13's are out there?

Best centres at the minute  jauzion at 12 and probably BOD on reflection at 13. But i'd love to have Giteau in the team somewhere.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Main Street on March 22, 2010, 10:21:27 PM
Has the talk been in the press about building for the world cup with some expectation or hope?
I haven't noticed any loose talk here.
England do better at the WC than Ireland, I think that leaves Ireland in the bunch scrapping for 6th place.
 At best, a quarter final.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 23, 2010, 12:02:31 PM
The 2 great under performers in this 6N were ourselves and Wales. Also interesting to note that 3 of France's last 4 Grand Slams came after Lions tours.

No surprise really since we both made up most of the Lions squad and it has been a long season. Some of our players will come back to themselves after a break (I'm thinking O'Connell in particular but also O'Driscoll, Keanrey and the back row). Oddly enough they might all benefit with an early exit from the HC.

Bowe is the one guy to stay fit and hold his form all the way through. He would easily made a world XV with probably O'Driscoll the only other shout.

As someone who always wants O'Callaghan starting I give a nod to his battling performance on Sat. If Leo Cullen should have come on (and maybe he should) it was for 5 and not 4. Of course the Scottish game would be more up O'Callaghan's street than say the Babas style we tried to play at the start.

That's a very interesting statistic Muppet... would put a few things in a different light so

Oh and for all the boys who are predicting Ireland's position or performance at the 2011 World Cup some 18 months away, looking to the short term future any chance for the Lotto numbers for tomorrow night??  ::)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Schkite on March 25, 2010, 06:12:01 PM
Congrats to Tommy Bowe on winning the 6 nations Player of the Tournament.

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/16484.php

In fairness it really should have gone to a French player but I suppose with 4 of the 6 nominees being French the vote was split. Well done Tommy anyway!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 25, 2010, 06:58:21 PM
Congrats to Tommy Bowe on winning the 6 nations Player of the Tournament.

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/16484.php

In fairness it really should have gone to a French player but I suppose with 4 of the 6 nominees being French the vote was split. Well done Tommy anyway!

Knew it was coming, didn't Ryle Nugent say that Bowe was well ahead in the public votes before the last round of games anyway.  Fair play anyway Tommy ya Monaghan fooker  ;D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Hoof Hearted on March 25, 2010, 07:52:02 PM
i see your copying me on the signature front celt man  :D
Im keeping mine until i regain the title
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 25, 2010, 08:52:32 PM
It will be mine some day  >:(
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Capt Pat on March 26, 2010, 01:03:17 AM
Luke fitzgerald won't be back until next season, not back to his best until the end of next season. At least that is perfect timing for the world cup.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Celt_Man on March 26, 2010, 01:47:54 AM
i see your copying me on the signature front celt man  :D
Im keeping mine until i regain the title

Ahh you're living in the past man... the title is mine!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: ballinaman on March 26, 2010, 02:51:58 AM
Got my ticket for the north terrace for Ireland V All Blacks on June 12th in New Plymouth. Session will be had if anyone is going.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 26, 2010, 04:06:56 AM
Got my ticket for the north terrace for Ireland V All Blacks on June 12th in New Plymouth. Session will be had if anyone is going.

Its on my birthday. Was thinking of going down.... Won't rule it out yet ;)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 27, 2010, 11:27:51 AM
Em but Ballina and Crossmolina don't mix too well!!! ;)

On a more serious note? Maybe there has been a discussion on this before but why should the Munster v Leinster rugby match be a special event to allow pubs open their doors on Good Friday? If there is a thread on this already please let me know. I was out last night and am tired this morning.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread - Ireland v Scotland 20 March 2010
Post by: trileacman on March 27, 2010, 01:18:23 PM
Got my ticket for the north terrace for Ireland V All Blacks on June 12th in New Plymouth. Session will be had if anyone is going.

How much is flights for a job like that?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on April 10, 2010, 01:50:25 PM
Well done Connacht. Into the Challenge Cup semi-final after beating Bourgoin in Galway
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on April 14, 2010, 05:16:13 PM
Serious win for Connacht.... highlights of the game here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jQH2vQ6i6g&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 03, 2010, 03:02:52 PM
Big blow having Earls out for the summer but hopefully someone like Duffy will take this chance to impress



Keith Earls ruled out of Irish summer tour
Thursday, 3 June 2010 14:51

Keith Earls has been ruled out of the Ireland rugby squad for the summer tour to New Zealand and Australia.

Earls has been suffering from a persistent groin injury and following his participation in the training camp in Limerick this week he has been ruled out of the tour.

Connacht's Gavin Duffy, who was been named in the Ireland XV for the game against the Barbarians in Thomond Park on Friday night, will now travel with the squad to New Zealand in place of Earls.

Earls joins Paul O'Connell, Rory Best and Kevin McLaughlin on the list of players who have been forced to withdraw from the tour.

Further Test regulars Stephen Ferris, Denis Leamy and Luke Fitzgerald did not make it into the original 33-man squad named last month because of injury problems.

Ireland squad for the 2010 Summer Tour in New Zealand and Australia from 4-26 June:

Backs: Tommy Bowe, Gordon D'Arcy, Gavin Duffy, Shane Horgan,
Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Geordan Murphy, Brian O'Driscoll,
Ronan O'Gara, Tomas O'Leary, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton,
Peter Stringer, Andrew Trimble, Paddy Wallace

Forwards: Tony Buckley, Tom Court, Sean Cronin, Jerry Flannery,
John Fogarty, John Hayes, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry,
Marcus Horan, Shane Jennings, John Muldoon, Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll, Ed O'Donoghue, Niall Ronan,
Dan Tuohy, David Wallace
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 03, 2010, 03:05:13 PM
Irish team to face the Baa-Baas tomorrow.  Good to see Muldoon, Cronin and Duffy getting the place their performances with Connacht deserved...

McFadden too, he was unlucky to be injured for the HC semi final after doing so well with Leinster during the Six Nations


Ireland XV V Barbarians, Mastercard Challenge international at Thomond Park, Friday, 7.45pm:

15 Robert Kearney, 4 Shane Horgan, 13 Gavin Duffy, 12 Fergus McFadden, 11 Andrew Trimble, 10 Ronan O'Gara (cpt), 9 Peter Stringer, 1 Marcus Horan, 2 Sean Cronin, 3 Tony Buckley, 4 Ed O'Donoghue, 5 Dan Tuohy, 6 John Muldoon, 7 Niall Ronan, 8 Chris Henry.

Replacements: 16 Jerry Flannery, 17 Tom Court, 18 Mick O'Driscoll, 19 David Wallace, 20 Tomas O'Leary, 21 Jonathan Sexton, 22 Paddy Wallace.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 08, 2010, 07:42:16 AM

Ireland team to play All Blacks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ronan O'Gara has won the battle for the Ireland No.10 shirt for Saturday's one-off Test against New Zealand in New Plymouth.

O'Gara was forced to watch from the bench as Leinster's Jonathan Sexton started the final three games of the RBS Six Nations.

However the Munsterman returned to skipper the Irish in the friendly loss to the Barbarians - and he will now keep his place and line up opposite Dan Carter.

Sexton, who has only recently returned from a broken jaw, will have to settle for a place on the bench alongside uncapped duo John Fogartyand Dan Tuohy.

John Muldoon, who was the man of the match against the Barbarians, wins just his third cap for Ireland as he partners Jamie Heaslip and David Wallace in the front row.

Muldoon's Connacht team-mate Sean Cronin will also collectns his third cap when the hooker packs down with Cian Healy and John Hayesin the front row.

Coach Declan Kidney is able to include skipper Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'Arcy, Tommy Bowe and Donncha O'Callaghan for the clash, while the vastly experience Mick O'Driscoll replaces the sidelined Paul O'Connellin the second row.

Ireland: 15 Rob Kearney (Leinster), 14 Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), 13 Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster, capt), 12 Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster), 11 Andrew Trimble (Ulster), 10 Ronan O'Gara (Munster), 9 Tomas O'Leary (Munster), 1 Cian Healy (Leinster), 2 Sean Cronin (Connacht), 3 John Hayes (Munster), 4 Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster), 5 Mick O'Driscoll (Munster), 6 John Muldoon (Connacht), 7 David Wallace (Munster), 8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster).
Replacements: 16 John Fogarty (Leinster), 17 Tony Buckley (Munster), 18 Dan Tuohy (Ulster), 19 Shane Jennings (Leinster), 20 Eoin Reddan (Leinster), 21 Jonathan Sexton (Leinster), 22 Geordan Murphy (Leicester).
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on June 08, 2010, 08:33:42 AM
Apart from the absence of O'Connell it is a pretty good team. Muldoon looked good against the barbarians and Trimble gets a chance to impress again.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 08, 2010, 09:13:57 AM
Would Geordan Murphy not be worth a place, maybe on the wing ?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 08, 2010, 09:51:29 AM
Quote
Apart from the absence of O'Connell it is a pretty good team. Muldoon looked good against the barbarians and Trimble gets a chance to impress again.

Rubbish, it's an awful team, that pack will be destroyed. NZ by 20pts plus.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: screenexile on June 08, 2010, 10:00:34 AM
Quote
Apart from the absence of O'Connell it is a pretty good team. Muldoon looked good against the barbarians and Trimble gets a chance to impress again.

Rubbish, it's an awful team, that pack will be destroyed. NZ by 20pts plus.

I think you're being harsh there Dinny, even with POC, Ferris and Flannery our pack would still get destroyed!!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 08, 2010, 10:11:33 AM
Harsh, I think not, only Heaslip would make the All-Black side but if Flannery/Best, POC and Ferris were available at least we'd have parity in the line-outs and ball-carrying and our scrum wouldn't have been destroyed like it will on Sunday especially against not a particularly great NZ pack. I mean for the love of God Mick O'Driscoll!!!!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: mc_grens on June 08, 2010, 10:31:12 AM
I'm usually an optimist.

On this occasion, however, I have to agree with Dinny. We're gonna get annihilated.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on June 08, 2010, 11:28:52 AM
Harsh, I think not, only Heaslip would make the All-Black side but if Flannery/Best, POC and Ferris were available at least we'd have parity in the line-outs and ball-carrying and our scrum wouldn't have been destroyed like it will on Sunday especially against not a particularly great NZ pack. I mean for the love of God Mick O'Driscoll!!!!!

How has this man got so many Irish caps? Always seems to be in the squad no matter what. People talk about our lack of props but 2nd row options are severely limited as well. The pack will be destroyed on Saturday of that there is no doubt. Lets just hope we put in a decent performance and confidence doesn't get drained heading into the Autumn internationals.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Olaf on June 08, 2010, 03:21:41 PM
Quote
Apart from the absence of O'Connell it is a pretty good team. Muldoon looked good against the barbarians and Trimble gets a chance to impress again.

Rubbish, it's an awful team, that pack will be destroyed. NZ by 20pts plus.

Is Sexton injured? I see he is on the bench??
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 11, 2010, 06:00:16 PM
Anyone have any links to the All-Blacks match in the morning?  Fecking dyin to see it but have no sky... sickener
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 11, 2010, 07:16:24 PM
http://www.justin.tv/twomint02 (http://www.justin.tv/twomint02)

He normally shows all rugby else try

http://www.iraqgoals.net/?p=117 (http://www.iraqgoals.net/?p=117)

or else sopcast
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 11, 2010, 08:32:16 PM
Anyone have any links to the All-Blacks match in the morning?  Fecking dyin to see it but have no sky... sickener

i will have it on. If you leave Cavan at 6 you should make it for KO.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 11, 2010, 09:01:09 PM
http://www.justin.tv/twomint02 (http://www.justin.tv/twomint02)

He normally shows all rugby else try

http://www.iraqgoals.net/?p=117 (http://www.iraqgoals.net/?p=117)

or else sopcast

Cheers boss
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 11, 2010, 09:50:28 PM
Anyone have any links to the All-Blacks match in the morning?  Fecking dyin to see it but have no sky... sickener

i will have it on. If you leave Cavan at 6 you should make it for KO.

What's for breakfast so?!?!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 11, 2010, 09:54:57 PM
tennants or red wine ?

As a man who regularly posts on rugby, GAA and soccer threads, would tomorrow not be a perfect day

8.30 - Local Bar
8.35 - Ireland v All Blacks
10.30 - England v Aus
1.00 - Lunch
2.00 - France v SA
4.00 - Tea
5.15 - Cavan v Fermanagh
7.30 - England v USA
9.30 - Whatever your fit for !
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on June 11, 2010, 10:28:29 PM
tennants or red wine ?

As a man who regularly posts on rugby, GAA and soccer threads, would tomorrow not be a perfect day

8.30 - Local Bar
8.35 - Ireland v All Blacks
10.30 - England v Aus
1.00 - Lunch
2.00 - France v SA
4.00 - Tea
5.15 - Cavan v Fermanagh
7.30 - England v USA
9.30 - Whatever your fit for !

Slighly ruins it for me to be honest but otherwise should be another great weekend of sport.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 11, 2010, 10:30:08 PM
forgot about the argies, messi, tevez and maradona et al
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 11, 2010, 10:36:11 PM
tennants or red wine ?

As a man who regularly posts on rugby, GAA and soccer threads, would tomorrow not be a perfect day

8.30 - Local Bar
8.35 - Ireland v All Blacks
10.30 - England v Aus
1.00 - Lunch
2.00 - France v SA
4.00 - Tea
5.15 - Cavan v Fermanagh
7.30 - England v USA
9.30 - Whatever your fit for !

have to squeeze in an Under 10s gaelic game and shopping  >:( >:( during all that too
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 11, 2010, 10:38:58 PM
tennants or red wine ?

As a man who regularly posts on rugby, GAA and soccer threads, would tomorrow not be a perfect day

8.30 - Local Bar
8.35 - Ireland v All Blacks
10.30 - England v Aus
1.00 - Lunch
2.00 - France v SA
4.00 - Tea
5.15 - Cavan v Fermanagh
7.30 - England v USA
9.30 - Whatever your fit for !

have to squeeze in an Under 10s gaelic game and shopping  >:( >:( during all that too

i thought you were older than that. wont post anymore in case i get arrested !!!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 11, 2010, 10:42:04 PM
tennants or red wine ?

As a man who regularly posts on rugby, GAA and soccer threads, would tomorrow not be a perfect day

8.30 - Local Bar
8.35 - Ireland v All Blacks
10.30 - England v Aus
1.00 - Lunch
2.00 - France v SA
4.00 - Tea
5.15 - Cavan v Fermanagh
7.30 - England v USA
9.30 - Whatever your fit for !

have to squeeze in an Under 10s gaelic game and shopping  >:( >:( during all that too

i thought you were older than that. wont post anymore in case i get arrested !!!!

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: youbetterbelieveit on June 12, 2010, 07:09:48 AM
Lads, anybody got a link for the rugby game?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on June 12, 2010, 07:34:59 AM
http://www.iraqgoals.net/9166-new-zealand-vs-ireland-.html (http://www.iraqgoals.net/9166-new-zealand-vs-ireland-.html)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on June 12, 2010, 07:53:38 AM
Kearney gifts them a try and Healslip just been sent off after 15 minutes for a deliberate knee to the head.
Whats the record score the All Blacks have put up against Ireland??
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: BennyHarp on June 12, 2010, 07:58:18 AM
What was heaslip playing at? Just a matter of keeping the score down now!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on June 12, 2010, 07:59:27 AM
Rush of blood to the head Benny.  Very, very stupid
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: stephenite on June 12, 2010, 08:00:24 AM
23 minutes gone, game over
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on June 12, 2010, 08:02:02 AM
And know we are down to 13.  Yellow card for O'Gara
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: stephenite on June 12, 2010, 08:03:41 AM
This could be fairly embarrassing
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on June 12, 2010, 08:05:21 AM
If it's only fairly embarrasing they will be doing well
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: BennyHarp on June 12, 2010, 08:06:38 AM
I think I'm going to go back to bed! Can't watch this anymore!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: stephenite on June 12, 2010, 08:13:22 AM
I think I'm going to go back to bed! Can't watch this anymore!

38-0 and 34 minutes gone
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Aerlik on June 12, 2010, 08:14:52 AM
Logged in and logged out after 30 secs.  Ah well, the Aussies are playing the Poms in Perth tonight..
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: BennyHarp on June 12, 2010, 08:15:42 AM
The comebacks on!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: stephenite on June 12, 2010, 08:16:02 AM
38-7; can we do it?


Can we f**k
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: BennyHarp on June 12, 2010, 08:17:31 AM
If we can get three more tries before half time we could have a chance :)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Schkite on June 12, 2010, 08:29:02 AM
What the fcuk was Heaslip playing at?

New Zealand awesome though, even with a full team they'd be up by 15-20.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: youbetterbelieveit on June 12, 2010, 08:32:28 AM
Jeez, even if Ireland had a full team out I dont think they would be close, as they are playing very poorly. Just knew it wasnt our day when you have Kearney fcuk up in the first ten minutes.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on June 12, 2010, 08:36:42 AM
Jesus, too dreadful passes in a row from O'Leary on there 22 gives away a try
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on June 12, 2010, 08:46:56 AM
Should've stayed in bed. Idiotic out of Heaslip with NZ about to be penalised on their own line.

This could be Ireland's tour of hell like the Brian Ashton tour of in the late nineties. Too many injuries to be competitive against the Southern Hemisphere. Only positive I can take from it is that Buckley has done well. Offers more around the field than the Bull.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: BennyHarp on June 12, 2010, 08:53:03 AM
At least they are showing a bit if fight now!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Geoff Tipps on June 12, 2010, 08:53:24 AM
Is that Mark Robson commentating on Sky?? Can someone tell him it's Tuohy not Chewie  ???
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 12, 2010, 08:57:50 AM
robson is a twat !
Celt Man, you're lucky you didnt get to see this !
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 12, 2010, 08:59:49 AM
Only losing the second half by 7 with a man down.

Well, you have to look for something.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on June 12, 2010, 09:01:45 AM
Glad I stayed in bed for this one. I knew we wouldn't win without a full strength team but this is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 12, 2010, 09:09:23 AM
Some great play by Ireland in the second half to salvage a lot in pride and confidence. Probably the first time Ireland ever scored 4 tries against NZ, never mind in one half. You might assume the All-Blacks were not at full throttle, but still ...

Buckley Ireland's MOM?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on June 12, 2010, 09:13:55 AM
Buckley has been unreal.  A turning point in his career??
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: J OGorman on June 12, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Buckley was motm. Other positives were odriscoll, d'arcy, trimble and murphy when he came on. 4 tries and poss trimble's for a 5. Heaslip should hang his head in shame, let so many folk down with us on the nz line. Hard lesson.

NZ were amazing to watch @ time, Carter and their 'reserve' full back were a class apart

And to Hoof Hearted...I worked with Mark Robson for a few years, an absolute gent..yer a mighty big man dissin a decent bloke with yer nickname on an internet forum
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Myles Na G. on June 12, 2010, 09:41:05 AM
Great from Buckley and Trimble. Too many basic errors and missed tackles, even before Heaslip took the head staggers.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on June 12, 2010, 10:02:36 AM
I didn't see the game but from what I am hearing there seems to be a lot of complacency in this Irish team. Trimble and Buckley were the best because they are good players who have been overlooked for selection and are motivated. This is why we lost a game against Scotland in Croke Park, why Rob Kearney is playing poorly and still getting his game ahead of Murphy.

It is a dip in form and there needs to be a bit of a shake up to get things kick started. The grand slam is dead and gone and any players trading on being a part of that team need to go out and prove it again.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 12, 2010, 10:10:55 AM
Buckley was motm. Other positives were odriscoll, d'arcy, trimble and murphy when he came on. 4 tries and poss trimble's for a 5. Heaslip should hang his head in shame, let so many folk down with us on the nz line. Hard lesson.

NZ were amazing to watch @ time, Carter and their 'reserve' full back were a class apart

And to Hoof Hearted...I worked with Mark Robson for a few years, an absolute gent..yer a mighty big man dissin a decent bloke with yer nickname on an internet forum

maybe he is JOG but i hate his commentary. And although Hoof Hearted is very obviously not my name, i dont hide annon behind a nickname or a keyboard like most. My name is out there.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: GBXII on June 12, 2010, 10:16:22 AM
He is a very annoying commentator in fairness. Heaslip fairly ruined any chance of a competitive game though I would say the All Blacks were always going to win. Decent second half from Ireland though.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: muppet on June 12, 2010, 11:23:59 AM
Is that Mark Robson commentating on Sky?? Can someone tell him it's Tuohy not Chewie  ???

Chewie would make a great number 8!!! I wonder is he qualified for Ireland.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: magickingdom on June 12, 2010, 11:25:44 AM
rugby is played at a different level in the southern hemisphere
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on June 12, 2010, 11:47:31 AM
How long a ban is Heaslip likely to get? Who is likely to fill the number 8 shirt now?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: ludermor on June 12, 2010, 01:04:57 PM
Buckley was motm. Other positives were odriscoll, d'arcy, trimble and murphy when he came on. 4 tries and poss trimble's for a 5. Heaslip should hang his head in shame, let so many folk down with us on the nz line. Hard lesson.

NZ were amazing to watch @ time, Carter and their 'reserve' full back were a class apart

And to Hoof Hearted...I worked with Mark Robson for a few years, an absolute gent..yer a mighty big man dissin a decent bloke with yer nickname on an internet forum

maybe he is JOG but i hate his commentary. And although Hoof Hearted is very obviously not my name, i dont hide annon behind a nickname or a keyboard like most. My name is out there.
And your name is???????
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: stephenite on June 12, 2010, 01:26:54 PM
Buckley was motm. Other positives were odriscoll, d'arcy, trimble and murphy when he came on. 4 tries and poss trimble's for a 5. Heaslip should hang his head in shame, let so many folk down with us on the nz line. Hard lesson.

NZ were amazing to watch @ time, Carter and their 'reserve' full back were a class apart

And to Hoof Hearted...I worked with Mark Robson for a few years, an absolute gent..yer a mighty big man dissin a decent bloke with yer nickname on an internet forum

maybe he is JOG but i hate his commentary. And although Hoof Hearted is very obviously not my name, i dont hide annon behind a nickname or a keyboard like most. My name is out there.
And your name is???????

Probably one of John/Joe/James/Jimmy/Jacinta/Jerimah/Jesus/ O'Gorman.

It's not anon though :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Bord na Mona man on June 12, 2010, 01:35:04 PM
Realistically Ireland are never going to do well playing in the Southern Hemisphere at the end of the season.
Too many injuries and fatigue.

Great to see Buckley do so well. He offers dimensions in open play that Hayes doesn't.
If you are to criticise Buckley's scrummaging, then bear in mind that Irish scrum is now a busted flush with Hayes propping. At least Buckley has scope to improve.

Start Sexton, Murphy and maybe Reddan against Australia and see how it goes.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Eastern_Pride on June 12, 2010, 02:05:45 PM
What in the name of jaysus just happened down in New Zealand? Thats not on, conceding near on 70 points should be left to the group stages of the World Cup to teams like Romania and Portugal. I know we were missing a whole other team of players but 38 points???
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 12, 2010, 03:08:21 PM
What in the name of jaysus just happened down in New Zealand? Thats not on, conceding near on 70 points should be left to the group stages of the World Cup to teams like Romania and Portugal. I know we were missing a whole other team of players but 38 points???

Playing with only 14 men for 50 minutes of the game and then down to 13 for another ten would be hard against any team but against the best team in the world... that explains your 38 points

Second half performance seemed to be very commendable according to the Kiwi commendators (I caught the last 15 minutes of the game)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Eastern_Pride on June 12, 2010, 03:21:21 PM
What in the name of jaysus just happened down in New Zealand? Thats not on, conceding near on 70 points should be left to the group stages of the World Cup to teams like Romania and Portugal. I know we were missing a whole other team of players but 38 points???

Playing with only 14 men for 50 minutes of the game and then down to 13 for another ten would be hard against any team but against the best team in the world... that explains your 38 points

Second half performance seemed to be very commendable according to the Kiwi commendators (I caught the last 15 minutes of the game)
At the time i had only caught the score now. Seeing that score now would caome as a bit of a shock in all fairness.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 12, 2010, 03:50:09 PM
Only watched a re-run now...

Positives

Buckely and Trimble, Mushy might have a future after all

Negatives

O'Gara settled the out-half debate not that there should have been any debate at all, he was woeful today and Sexton is simply miles ahead of him, I'd have Humph junior ahead of him.

Is there a worse scrum half in International rugby than O'Leary?

Jamie Jamie Jamie, you dumb twat.

Rob Kearney, stop believing the hype and start delivering, Murphy much much sharper and should be starting..

Is Declan Kidney Eddie Mark II?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 12, 2010, 04:31:53 PM
Jamie Jamie Jamie, you dumb t**t.

Can I propose gurrier?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Eastern_Pride on June 12, 2010, 04:35:16 PM
Jamie Jamie Jamie, you dumb t**t.

Can I propose gurrier?
Troglodyte perhaps?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 12, 2010, 04:40:17 PM
Jamie Jamie Jamie, you dumb t**t.

Can I propose gurrier?

No surprise that a Meathman has brought up that word, I haven't heard it used since 1999...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 12, 2010, 04:59:09 PM
Jamie Jamie Jamie, you dumb t**t.

Can I propose gurrier?

No surprise that a Meathman has brought up that word, I haven't heard it used since 1999...

I'm stumped, Dinny. You'll have to elaborate.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 12, 2010, 05:08:36 PM
When Meath were football Kingpins, they had as you know a reputation for hard football and were ofter refered to as gurriers (undeserved)down here in Kildare , 1999 been the year of Meaths's last All-Ireland. Heaslip wasn't even acting the gurrier he was just been stupid...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 12, 2010, 05:17:50 PM
OK.

Anyway, my point was that I'd characterise sticking your knee into somebody's head (twice), especially while he's helpless to prevent it, as more than an act of stupidity. "I was just being stupid, yer honour" wouldn't cut much ice in a courtroom, which is where a civilian would end up if he did something like that. And if it was a GAA player who did it and it ended up on the evening news (as it most likely would), "stupid" is not what they'd be calling it either.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 12, 2010, 05:26:57 PM
Did he connect with the head though?

If he did I'd agree with you but I didn't think he did.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 12, 2010, 05:32:38 PM
By the way it was completely out of character for Jamie Heaslip and if a civilian did end up in court for something similar I'm sure his character witness testamonies would be taken ito consideration before any sentence is given out.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on June 12, 2010, 05:36:36 PM
Did he connect with the head though?

If he did I'd agree with you but I didn't think he did.

He did dinny. He caught Mc Caw on the top of the head in the first one and missed the 2nd time because Healy got in the way. Stop making excuses for him. He should be dropped regardless of suspension. Less time spent in Krysle and a bit more time spent training might be appropriate for the Leinster element of our rugby team

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 12, 2010, 05:43:35 PM
I'm not making excuses for anyone, If he did connect well then he deserves all he gets and more but it was of character period. I saw it once this afternoon and I didn't think he connected.

Quote
Less time spent in Krysle and a bit more time spent training might be appropriate for the Leinster element of our rugby team

That's right lets deny young sports stars the right to have a social life or any life at all. Stupid and irrelevant comment.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on June 12, 2010, 05:55:22 PM
I'm not making excuses for anyone, If he did connect well then he deserves all he gets and more but it was of character period. I saw it once this afternoon and I didn't think he connected.

Quote
Less time spent in Krysle and a bit more time spent training might be appropriate for the Leinster element of our rugby team

That's right lets deny young sports stars the right to have a social life or any life at all. Stupid and irrelevant comment.

Its not a stupid comment. Its right on the money. I've seen it myself countless times at this stage.They may as well buy shares in the place for the amount of time they spend in there. I doubt very much you'll find French professional rugby players out and about as much as the Leinster lads. If its not there its Bucks on Leeson Street. They know the cameras will be at the venues and so invite the publicity. meanwhile I see other leinster players out in other places to avoid all that shite.

They get paid huge 6 figure salaries to be professionals. if they can't manage then they can join the 9-5 brigade like the rest of us and see how they like it. I'm staggered by the social life of some of them as professioanl athletes.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 12, 2010, 08:06:52 PM
Did he connect with the head though?

If he did I'd agree with you but I didn't think he did.

He did dinny. He caught Mc Caw on the top of the head in the first one and missed the 2nd time because Healy got in the way. Stop making excuses for him. He should be dropped regardless of suspension. Less time spent in Krysle and a bit more time spent training might be appropriate for the Leinster element of our rugby team

oh for fooks sake... what absolute nonsense Heaslip is an absolute star and in my opinion, such as it is, he will be a Irish Captain in the future. 

I haven't seen it yet but from what I have read - not on here mind you - it sounded like a rush of blood to the head.  Interesting to read that McCraw was involved - want to see what happened beforehand.  That's not to excuse what he did, he put Ireland in a terrible situation and this red card will always be a strain on his career - he will have to work hard to try and make up for it
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on June 12, 2010, 09:10:25 PM
Did he connect with the head though?

If he did I'd agree with you but I didn't think he did.

http://www.skysport.co.nz/Default.aspx?tabid=68&cid=2552 8

33 seconds in. Clear as day. Take a long close look Dinny. Up there with Clohessy a few years back.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on June 12, 2010, 10:48:12 PM
I'd nearly go as far as to say it was worse than the Claw's stamp on Roumat all those years ago.

You can kind of understand a player doing something like that out of fustration (not to defend it of course) if they were getting hockeyed by fifty points. However, Ireland were camped on the NZ line at the time and were only 10-0 down on the scoreboard with very little possession or territory in the opening 15 mins. McCaw was about to be pinged for lying all over the ball. Worst case scenario it would have been an easy three points in front of the posts. It could have easily been ten minutes in the bin for McCaw and a great chance of seven points for Ireland. I'm not saying Ireland would've won the game but Heaslip's brainless action cost his teamates any small chance they might have had.

I'd like to defend the guy because he's from Kildare but you have to call a spade a spade - it was a trampish act (albeit out of character). If he wants to be a future Irish captain he'd want to take a serious look at himself.

If Paul Galvin were to commit a similar act tomorrow afternoon there'd be WWIII on here and in the media.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 13, 2010, 01:35:23 AM
Its actually still far from clear but the ref was close and he saw it not once but twice so will have to respect that. I have known Jamie since he was a toddler so pretty disappointed that he can let himself down like that but I will reiterate that it is completely out of character. He deserves a lengthy ban though although he probably won't get one and that will be my last comment on this incident.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: muppet on June 13, 2010, 02:46:24 AM
Its actually still far from clear but the ref was close and he saw it not once but twice so will have to respect that. I have known Jamie since he was a toddler so pretty disappointed that he can let himself down like that but I will reiterate that it is completely out of character. He deserves a lengthy ban though although he probably won't get one and that will be my last comment on this incident.

Very out of character however this is a sport that is all about whether you are caught or not. Unlike the Gaa  ;D

It certainly cost us any competitive chance in the game but then again were are only there for revenue purposes. O'Driscoll & Carter will play in the autumn series unless they are missing a limb or dead. Jamie will be back by then..
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 13, 2010, 03:47:04 AM
Heaslip lost the head. Simple as that. As sportsmen and people in general do on occasion. It had precisely nothing to do with his social habits. Himself and Harinordoquy have been miles ahead of any other number 8's in NH rugby over the past 18 months. He saw McCaw killing the ball as he does every game and just lost the rag. Completely out of character but still beyond stupid to take the law into your hands like that in front of the ref.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on June 13, 2010, 10:19:08 AM
Heaslip got a 5 week ban - thought it would have been a bit longer.
 
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: 13aside on June 13, 2010, 10:29:01 AM
what coaching manual or which coach encouraged that idiotic behaviour(clearly none)-no excuses deserves a ban and sacrificed the teams chances(however remote)with his own childish behaviour
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: thewobbler on June 13, 2010, 04:50:41 PM
Just a couple of things that are annoying me about this tour.

If you keep taking Mick O'Driscoll along in squads, eventually you will have to play him. And he will be exposed. Deccie really should know better. O'Driscoll isn't versatile, he is substandard.

Also, the All Blacks simply love to see O'Gara. It's like Christmas Day for them. So for the love of God just don't even consider him for these matches.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 07:44:49 AM
8-0 down to the Maori after 6 minutes.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 07:51:30 AM
Another Maori try, 13th minute, behind the posts.
 :o
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 07:55:12 AM
15-3
Sexton penalty.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:14:26 AM
18-15. Five Sexton penalties. Maori on a warning about offside indiscipline. Next man goes.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:20:18 AM
18-18 half time.

Ireland running everything at them and their defence under pressure yielding penalties. Our defence frighteningly porous when they run at us.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 18, 2010, 08:25:30 AM
Good game though, nice that Ireland didn't panic, Chris Henry having a big game as is Sexton and Wallace. Just keep the ball and we'll get the penalties. 'Galway' man Gavin Duffy doing well too, nice to see young Rys Ruddock doing ok and not looking out of his dept.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:30:21 AM
Paddy Wallace try, first minute!

Sexton converts.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 18, 2010, 08:30:54 AM
peach of a score too
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:31:46 AM
Yes - beautiful break by G. Murphy.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:40:15 AM
21-25 - Maori penalty.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:53:50 AM
"EE-on" Reddan replaced by Stringer, according to NZ commentator.

Still 21-25, 62 mins.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Main Street on June 18, 2010, 08:54:42 AM
NZ Maoris means they are not the All Blacks?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:55:16 AM
26-25 Maori try. Tissue paper Irish tackling.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 18, 2010, 08:56:02 AM
Maybe but credit to the Maori some try..
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:56:53 AM
28-25

Don't know how they select the Maori team, except I presume they have to be Maori.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 08:59:38 AM
28-28 - great kick from halfway, but dodgy penalty decision? Stringer completely missing at ruck, Maori just walked through and picked it up.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 18, 2010, 09:01:51 AM
It was dodgy but poor old Stringer was at the bottom of the previous ruck.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 09:03:27 AM
Distracted and misssed that - wondered where he was
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 09:06:18 AM
31-28 - penalty in font of posts - Ronan handling the ball off the feet.

8 mins to go. Penalty Ireland 35 yds out, slightly left.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 09:08:20 AM
Missed it! First miss of the game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on June 18, 2010, 09:14:35 AM
Maori 31- Ireland 28, final score.

Entertaining game. Overall good performance from the second string, I thought.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on June 18, 2010, 09:17:11 AM
Yep enjoyed, bad start did it in the end, Maori wanted it more too, thought the Irish subsitutions brought too much disruption but obviously Kidney has one eye on next week. Good performance from the second string, need to cap Ruddock asap, not bad for a 19 year old.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on June 18, 2010, 10:23:34 AM
Definite improvement on last week.

I'd start Geordan Murphy, Paddy Wallace, Sexton, Reddan and Horan again next week.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Main Street on June 18, 2010, 10:47:35 AM
The Maoris showed their mettle at the end.
At least the NZ commentators were calling it a famous victory.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 26, 2010, 10:35:50 AM
Good game at the minute v Aus. 12-8 up, sexton has 4 from 4. Bad mistake for Aus try, but other than that playing very well. Half hour gone
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on June 26, 2010, 10:50:07 AM
any links??
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 26, 2010, 11:03:03 AM
Sky Sports 1 ;)

Aus 16-15 up at HT. They got a try in injury time
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 26, 2010, 11:26:54 AM
22-15 to Aus. 15 mins to go.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: screenexile on June 26, 2010, 11:36:21 AM
Poor performance against an Aussie team there for the taking... knock ons, missed tackles, fumbles and missed touches all over the show!!

Also why are we not challenging their lineout?? Very frustrating!!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on June 26, 2010, 11:39:57 AM
Poor performance against an Aussie team there for the taking... knock ons, missed tackles, fumbles and missed touches all over the show!!

Also why are we not challenging their lineout?? Very frustrating!!!

and thats just Brian O'Driscoll !
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on June 26, 2010, 12:38:50 PM
Were there any new caps, Ruddock and others? How did they get on?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Eastern_Pride on June 26, 2010, 04:06:00 PM
Even taking into account the disastrous misfortunes we have encountered, this tour was an unmitigated disaster.
O'Driscoll was mysteriously human today and the losses of major players really showed against a depleted New Zealand "team" and a poor Australia outfit.

The successes of 2009 are well and truly over.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on June 26, 2010, 04:17:20 PM
Were there any new caps, Ruddock and others? How did they get on?

Ruddock got capped today so thats him an Irishman for life now!!

Back to the drawing board big style now for Ireland. I actually don't really see where they do go now. Quarter finals is probably the best we can hope for at the world cup next year. Kearney is seriously out of form but will never be dropped even though Murphy was very good towards the end of the season for Leicester. Ditto for O'Leary have never been a fan and this tour didnt change my mind on that. Sexton did prove that he is an international class kicker and showed that his kicking form in the 6N was a blip and should be first choice number 10 for the forseeable future. The pack is an entirely different kettle of fish and I dont even know were you would start with it! When Mick O'Driscoll is your 3rd choice lock then you know you are in serious bother.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on June 27, 2010, 09:41:04 AM
The world cup is in New Zealand, so advantage All Blacks and the other southern hemisphere teams. The All black under 20s just won the world cup by a country mile so they have a lot of talent coming through as well.

While it is unlikely that we win it I am sure this Ireland team has a big world cup in them, the only thing I am worried about is that Sexton doesn't get the wobbles with the kicking as he had for a lot of this season. O'Driscoll is looking forward to this and will play well at the next world cup as well as O'Connell and O'Callaghan who will all be at the end of the line. We have some potentially excellent young players, Heaslip, Ferris, Earls, Kearney, Sexton, Fitzgerald. There are a lot of playmakers there. I do worry a bit about the lack of power up front especially in the front row and after the world cup.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on June 29, 2010, 08:44:39 PM
Saw a quick 5 minute highlights of the match there yesterday... seemed to be doing rightly but let in 2 fecking brutally soft tries.  Can't afford to shot yourself in the foot (twice) when you're playing down under but I suppose it isn't all bad when you consider we have 3rd and 4th choice players playing in some positions.  Only time will tell how valuable the experience of this tour will be to some of the newer caps and on the flip side, how much this tour will have drained some of the more established players... long 12 month season ??? since the Lions' tour
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 05, 2010, 02:58:59 PM
Team for SA
Saturday 6th Nov.

15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Gordon Darcy
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Jonathan Sexton
9. Eoin Reddan
8. Jamie Heaslip
7. David Wallace
6. Stephen Ferris
5. Mick O'Driscoll
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
3. Tony Buckley
2. Rory Best
1. Cian Healy

Weak looking front 5 but the SA are also suffering numerous injury woes. That front row is diabolical. Two men who can't scrummage and a hooker who can't throw. I can see our set pieces going to pot. They are 3 brilliant players in open play but that won't save us! Nice shape to the backs but I dont think Reddan, Kearny or D'arcy are up to it this weather.

The boks:

Gio Aplon; Bjorn Basson, Zane Kirchner, Jean de Villiers/Patrick Lambie, Bryan Habana; Morne Steyn, Ruan Pienaar; Pierre Spies, Juan Smith, Deon Stegmann; Victor Matfield (capt), Bakkies Botha; Jannie du Plessis, Bismarck du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarira

Strong front row, bodes badly for us. Two great locks but a weakened back row from the SA. The backs are a mish-mash, De Villiers made it late but even so I think there won't be much cohesion from that unit. Logic would tell you that the SA will keep it tight and rely on the pack to take them through it. Kirchner is a FB so perhaps we could target him in the tackle and defensive line.

I expect a tight, poor match with alot of kicking from the boks on tour. Ireland might sneak it if they avoid pack confrontations and get some change form a untested SA backline.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 05, 2010, 03:10:25 PM
I really like the look of Ireland from 6-15. Heaslip, Wallace and Ferris are awesome players on their day and having a lot of the Leinster players plus the very impressive Tommy Bowe in the back line should make for good play in that sector.

On the down side the front five is questionable to say the least going up against the best forwards in the world from South Africa. We could be badly outgunned in the second row wit hMatfield and Bakkies Botha going up against Mick O'Driscoll and O'Callaghan. The front row might be ok if Buckley scrummages well.

The weather forecast on the BBC website for tomorrow is good, so I will go for an Irish win.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on November 05, 2010, 03:54:50 PM
I really like the look of Ireland from 6-15. Heaslip, Wallace and Ferris are awesome players on their day and having a lot of the Leinster players plus the very impressive Tommy Bowe in the back line should make for good play in that sector.

On the down side the front five is questionable to say the least going up against the best forwards in the world from South Africa. We could be badly outgunned in the second row wit hMatfield and Bakkies Botha going up against Mick O'Driscoll and O'Callaghan. The front row might be ok if Buckley scrummages well.

The weather forecast on the BBC website for tomorrow is good, so I will go for an Irish win.

Yeah agree with this - those positions more or less pick themselves these days with only maybe O'Leary or O'Gara having a chance of getting picked there before the World Cup. Though O'Leary will probably come into the team ahead of Reddan when he returns from injury. Irish backs are certainly better than SA but unfortunately its vice versa for the forwards. I am looking forward to the battle between Habana and Bowe and hopefully BOD is close to 100% because that SA midfield looks very weak. I would like to have seen Sean O'Brien in the 22 instead of Leamy. If we can get the scrum or lineout winning our own ball then I think we will win by about 7 or so otherwise it could be a huge anti climax for the opening rugby test at the Aviva. Im also glad its not a sell out as the IRFU has made an absolute balls of their ticketing and prices for these Autumn internationals. They are living on a different planet to the fans.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 05, 2010, 08:30:30 PM
I really like the look of Ireland from 6-15. Heaslip, Wallace and Ferris are awesome players on their day and having a lot of the Leinster players plus the very impressive Tommy Bowe in the back line should make for good play in that sector.

On the down side the front five is questionable to say the least going up against the best forwards in the world from South Africa. We could be badly outgunned in the second row wit hMatfield and Bakkies Botha going up against Mick O'Driscoll and O'Callaghan. The front row might be ok if Buckley scrummages well.

The weather forecast on the BBC website for tomorrow is good, so I will go for an Irish win.

Yeah agree with this - those positions more or less pick themselves these days with only maybe O'Leary or O'Gara having a chance of getting picked there before the World Cup. Though O'Leary will probably come into the team ahead of Reddan when he returns from injury. Irish backs are certainly better than SA but unfortunately its vice versa for the forwards. I am looking forward to the battle between Habana and Bowe and hopefully BOD is close to 100% because that SA midfield looks very weak. I would like to have seen Sean O'Brien in the 22 instead of Leamy. If we can get the scrum or lineout winning our own ball then I think we will win by about 7 or so otherwise it could be a huge anti climax for the opening rugby test at the Aviva. Im also glad its not a sell out as the IRFU has made an absolute balls of their ticketing and prices for these Autumn internationals. They are living on a different planet to the fans.
There is nothing outstanding about positions 6-15. Reddan and Sexton are inferior to the SA half-backs.

A big if there.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: muppet on November 05, 2010, 08:41:39 PM
There is nothing outstanding about positions 6-15. Reddan and Sexton are inferior to the SA half-backs.

Heaslip, BOD and Bowe on form are as good as anyone.

Ferris, Wallace, Kearney, Fitzgerald and D'Arcy have never let us down and are capable of delivering in any game.

Reddan should be fine and Sexton really adds to our back play regardless of who his opposite number is.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 05, 2010, 08:47:52 PM
There is nothing outstanding about positions 6-15. Reddan and Sexton are inferior to the SA half-backs.

Heaslip, BOD and Bowe on form are as good as anyone.

Ferris, Wallace, Kearney, Fitzgerald and D'Arcy have never let us down and are capable of delivering in any game.

Reddan should be fine and Sexton really adds to our back play regardless of who his opposite number is.
Scotland and England games last year? He adds to our back play but is to the detriment of controlling the game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: muppet on November 05, 2010, 08:49:58 PM
There is nothing outstanding about positions 6-15. Reddan and Sexton are inferior to the SA half-backs.

Heaslip, BOD and Bowe on form are as good as anyone.

Ferris, Wallace, Kearney, Fitzgerald and D'Arcy have never let us down and are capable of delivering in any game.

Reddan should be fine and Sexton really adds to our back play regardless of who his opposite number is.
Scotland and England games last year? He adds to our back play but is to the detriment of controlling the game.

England game the previous year?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on November 05, 2010, 10:01:20 PM
I really like the look of Ireland from 6-15. Heaslip, Wallace and Ferris are awesome players on their day and having a lot of the Leinster players plus the very impressive Tommy Bowe in the back line should make for good play in that sector.

On the down side the front five is questionable to say the least going up against the best forwards in the world from South Africa. We could be badly outgunned in the second row wit hMatfield and Bakkies Botha going up against Mick O'Driscoll and O'Callaghan. The front row might be ok if Buckley scrummages well.

The weather forecast on the BBC website for tomorrow is good, so I will go for an Irish win.

Yeah agree with this - those positions more or less pick themselves these days with only maybe O'Leary or O'Gara having a chance of getting picked there before the World Cup. Though O'Leary will probably come into the team ahead of Reddan when he returns from injury. Irish backs are certainly better than SA but unfortunately its vice versa for the forwards. I am looking forward to the battle between Habana and Bowe and hopefully BOD is close to 100% because that SA midfield looks very weak. I would like to have seen Sean O'Brien in the 22 instead of Leamy. If we can get the scrum or lineout winning our own ball then I think we will win by about 7 or so otherwise it could be a huge anti climax for the opening rugby test at the Aviva. Im also glad its not a sell out as the IRFU has made an absolute balls of their ticketing and prices for these Autumn internationals. They are living on a different planet to the fans.
There is nothing outstanding about positions 6-15. Reddan and Sexton are inferior to the SA half-backs.

A big if there.

Really?? Piennar is lucky to be getting a game at 9 and Steyn whilst being an outstanding kicker is much of a muchness to Sexton IMO. I would take Irelands 9-15 over the one South Africa are putting out tomorrow any day of the week.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on November 05, 2010, 10:07:19 PM
true but id take sa's 1-6 any day over ours.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on November 05, 2010, 10:25:25 PM
true but id take sa's 1-6 any day over ours.

Our front five are in for a tough day tomorrow no doubt particularly in the lineout where there is no better than Botha and Matfield.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 06, 2010, 10:20:29 AM
I take it no-one on this thread actually watched the tri-nations this year where the SA front were hardly the world beaters many seem to think they are. Only Botha in the row when not suspended showed any sort of form. Of course the selection of Mick O'Driscoll and Tony Buckely in the Irish team beggars belief but shows how shallow the Irish talent pool really is considering the alternatives.

I'm heading up today quietly confident we'll win if we do well at the breakdown, forget your scrums and line-outs it's on the deck that this game will be won or lost (generally there is at least 4 times as many rucks as line-outs and scrums put together). Shocked that O'Brien hasn't been selected in the starting XV never mind the squad.

If the weather holds up expect quite an open game and Ireland to win by 5-10 points...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 06, 2010, 01:04:15 PM
There is nothing outstanding about positions 6-15. Reddan and Sexton are inferior to the SA half-backs.

Heaslip, BOD and Bowe on form are as good as anyone.

Ferris, Wallace, Kearney, Fitzgerald and D'Arcy have never let us down and are capable of delivering in any game.

Reddan should be fine and Sexton really adds to our back play regardless of who his opposite number is.
Scotland and England games last year? He adds to our back play but is to the detriment of controlling the game.
“Controlling the game” in rugby seems to be a euphemism for sitting deep in the pocket with the comfort of more time and space to kick away the ball.

I can’t see Ireland getting to the last 4 in the World Cup, with a game plan of kicking for the corners and hoping to steal line outs.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 06, 2010, 01:06:34 PM
A big test for Buckley against the Beast. Ireland badly need him to pass it though, as having to go back to playing Hayes would be a serious set back.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on November 06, 2010, 01:09:04 PM
I take it no-one on this thread actually watched the tri-nations this year where the SA front were hardly the world beaters many seem to think they are. Only Botha in the row when not suspended showed any sort of form. Of course the selection of Mick O'Driscoll and Tony Buckely in the Irish team beggars belief but shows how shallow the Irish talent pool really is considering the alternatives.

I'm heading up today quietly confident we'll win if we do well at the breakdown, forget your scrums and line-outs it's on the deck that this game will be won or lost (generally there is at least 4 times as many rucks as line-outs and scrums put together). Shocked that O'Brien hasn't been selected in the starting XV never mind the squad.

If the weather holds up expect quite an open game and Ireland to win by 5-10 points...

Really and truely if we cant beat this boks team we neddn't bother travelling to the WC. Thats the bottom line.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: CiKe on November 06, 2010, 01:23:02 PM
for me game will be won and lost in the back row. SA 1-5 over ours definitely, our 9-15, probably. 6-8 is key with Juan Smith and Ferris the pick of the battles - Ferris is up against it. Don't know much about Stegman to be honest, Heaslip I'd take over Spies most of the time, though if he gets going he can be impressive
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hardy on November 06, 2010, 05:30:42 PM
Arra FFS! BBC taking the RTÉ commentary so no escaping that annoying little hoor Nugent. I hope this is not a long term arrangement.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: FermGael on November 06, 2010, 05:51:20 PM
What would happen if there is an attempted drop goal, its short but it takes a freak bounce and bounces over??
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 06, 2010, 06:08:27 PM
I really like the look of Ireland from 6-15. Heaslip, Wallace and Ferris are awesome players on their day and having a lot of the Leinster players plus the very impressive Tommy Bowe in the back line should make for good play in that sector.

On the down side the front five is questionable to say the least going up against the best forwards in the world from South Africa. We could be badly outgunned in the second row wit hMatfield and Bakkies Botha going up against Mick O'Driscoll and O'Callaghan. The front row might be ok if Buckley scrummages well.

The weather forecast on the BBC website for tomorrow is good, so I will go for an Irish win.

Yeah agree with this - those positions more or less pick themselves these days with only maybe O'Leary or O'Gara having a chance of getting picked there before the World Cup. Though O'Leary will probably come into the team ahead of Reddan when he returns from injury. Irish backs are certainly better than SA but unfortunately its vice versa for the forwards. I am looking forward to the battle between Habana and Bowe and hopefully BOD is close to 100% because that SA midfield looks very weak. I would like to have seen Sean O'Brien in the 22 instead of Leamy. If we can get the scrum or lineout winning our own ball then I think we will win by about 7 or so otherwise it could be a huge anti climax for the opening rugby test at the Aviva. Im also glad its not a sell out as the IRFU has made an absolute balls of their ticketing and prices for these Autumn internationals. They are living on a different planet to the fans.
There is nothing outstanding about positions 6-15. Reddan and Sexton are inferior to the SA half-backs.

A big if there.

Really?? Piennar is lucky to be getting a game at 9 and Steyn whilst being an outstanding kicker is much of a muchness to Sexton IMO. I would take Irelands 9-15 over the one South Africa are putting out tomorrow any day of the week.

30 minutes gone. I'd take every SA player bar BOD at the minute. Ireland making Gio Aplan look like a good FB.
Sexton is dirt, no game control at all. Flaky kicker too.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 06:09:44 PM
A poor enough start from Ireland.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: orangeman on November 06, 2010, 06:11:46 PM
lot of empty seats
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 06:25:05 PM
Between moving to a smaller stadium and not selling all the tickets they have cut the attendance from last year in 2.

I won't let them use the weather as an excuse as it wasn't that bad before and at kick off time. At last years match I sat in freezing fog and coukd hardly see half the game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: screenexile on November 06, 2010, 06:45:33 PM
Absolutely Brutal from Ireland . . . we are in for a long long season I reckon!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: hardstation on November 06, 2010, 06:57:28 PM
How'd he miss that?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 06:59:18 PM
If Ferris could have held onto that ball, it would be all square.

Now the south african rookie misses a bad kick.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 07:01:17 PM
Aplon did well there but I think Kearney sold himself out there. 14 points in it now.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on November 06, 2010, 07:04:29 PM
At last something to cheer about
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: hardstation on November 06, 2010, 07:04:52 PM
Great pass from O'Gara.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 07:06:18 PM
A good try by Bowe makes Aplon look bad. 7 points in it.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: ross4life on November 06, 2010, 07:06:42 PM
Ronan O'Gara showed his class with that pass.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Declan on November 06, 2010, 07:08:57 PM
Hope it's only because it's the first game but we are brutal and that is the worst south African side I have seen
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: hardstation on November 06, 2010, 07:10:46 PM
Jaysus.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: orangeman on November 06, 2010, 07:11:18 PM
Aplon is rubbish.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: ross4life on November 06, 2010, 07:11:26 PM
Lucky try but who cares? difficult kick here now
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: hardstation on November 06, 2010, 07:12:00 PM
Great effort of a kick.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 06, 2010, 07:12:53 PM
Brutal game, set up for a good finish now though
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 07:13:41 PM
We should have kicked the peno, but now we have a try.  Aplon is falling apart.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: orangeman on November 06, 2010, 07:13:52 PM
Some 2nd half.


S Africa have conspired to make a game of it by making fundamental errors and giving Ireland easy points.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: orangeman on November 06, 2010, 07:14:33 PM
We should have kicked the peno, but now we have a try. Aplon is falling apart.
[/b]


New Zealand will love him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 07:16:54 PM
Don't contest the rolling mauls. There is no need.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: orangeman on November 06, 2010, 07:18:28 PM
Better 2nd half.

S Africa were going through the motions.


Poor crowd for the opening game.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: ross4life on November 06, 2010, 07:19:21 PM
Deserved win for SA but with O' Driscoll, O'Gara,Stringer, O' Connell all around 32/33 how are these guys going to be replaced?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on November 06, 2010, 07:21:55 PM
Too many empty seats... No lineout, don't know enough about it to blame Best as thrower or the jumpers... no many knock-ons, forward passess and just unforced errors in general... great character to come back fighting at the end
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 07:22:47 PM
Hope it's only because it's the first game but we are brutal and that is the worst south African side I have seen

We beat a much worse South African team before the last world cup.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 06, 2010, 07:26:55 PM
A very disjointed performance from Ireland. Best while he is a good scrummager is usually at the heart of bad Irish line out performances. Sexton and Reddan were very disappointing as a club half back pairing.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: mc_grens on November 06, 2010, 08:02:35 PM
A very disjointed performance from Ireland. Best while he is a good scrummager is usually at the heart of bad Irish line out performances. Sexton and Reddan were very disappointing as a club half back pairing.

I don't like these two as a pairing at all, never have. I think Reddan's ponderous delivery holds Sexton back from being able to use his considerable ability to unlock the potential of the back-line, and unlike O'Gara, Sexton doesnt yet have a top drawer territorial kicking game to fall back on.

I know Leinster have been successful with them in place, but as good as the Heineken Cup is as a spectacle it's still not Test Rugby.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: gallsman on November 06, 2010, 08:18:33 PM
Sexton def not up to scratch yet and I'm not sure he ever will be. He's 25 - compare him to someone like Francois Steyn.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on November 06, 2010, 08:31:53 PM
Sexton def not up to scratch yet and I'm not sure he ever will be. He's 25 - compare him to someone like Francois Steyn.

Bit of a difference. Steyn is a full-back. Plus he's mainly known for his enormous boot than anything else.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 06, 2010, 08:53:52 PM
Very disappointing peformance.

Front five were blown away. Best couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo - can't understand why Cronin wasn't given a run. The lineout couldn't have got any worse and at least Cronin would add a bit of dynamism around the park. Only Ferris from the pack could be satisfied with his performance.

Half-backs were poor but they were up against it behind a beaten pack. Stringer is still the best 9 around which is very worrying. Serious questions still remain over whether Sexton has the temperament for international rugby. ROG really hit the ground running when he came on and will now start v the ABs.

Darcy is another who is under pressure - move BOD to 12 and bring in Earls at 13? It's a pity James Downey wasn't selected in the squad because he offers something different to the centres we currently have.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: orangeman on November 06, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
Very disappointing peformance.

Front five were blown away. Best couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo - can't understand why Cronin wasn't given a run. The lineout couldn't have got any worse and at least Cronin would add a bit of dynamism around the park. Only Ferris from the pack could be satisfied with his performance.

Half-backs were poor but they were up against it behind a beaten pack. Stringer is still the best 9 around which is very worrying. Serious questions still remain over whether Sexton has the temperament for international rugby. ROG really hit the ground running when he came on and will now start v the ABs.

Darcy is another who is under pressure - move BOD to 12 and bring in Earls at 13? It's a pity James Downey wasn't selected in the squad because he offers something different to the centres we currently have.


Class.   :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: CiKe on November 06, 2010, 10:19:38 PM
There is a difference but truth be told Sexton aint up to it. James O'Connor, Quade Cooper, Will Genia etc, all much younger than Sexton and twice the players. Having watched Lambie in the Currie Cup quite a bit he is probably better than Sexton and five years younger, though horrendous first kick today.

Personally I don't understand the tactics. Sure, conditions were not ideal but if you are going to kick the ball so much, you should play O'Gara. That isn't going to win us many games against the big boys, but in this respect Sexton probably isn't even top level European club class never mind international test class. The game has progressed beyond kicking for territory but Ireland don't see to have realised that, or are incapable of adapting.

On that performance we may well finish 5th in the 6 nations, and I shudder to think what the All Blacks will do to us.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 06, 2010, 11:47:04 PM
Seriously anyone blaming Sexton hasn't a clue, the days of a 10 sitting in the pocket and kicking the ball away are long gone...

Ireland were beaten as predicted by a few of the lads here because the front 5 are shite and were beaten up a stick in the set piece and in work rate around the paddock, they lay the platform all Reddan got was horrible slow ball, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear...

The golden period is dead, we don't have the players to adapt to the new law changes, what you saw today is our short term future....
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: mc_grens on November 07, 2010, 09:35:15 AM
Seriously anyone playing Sexton hasn't a clue, the days of a 10 sitting in the pocket and kicking the ball away are long gone...

Ireland were beaten as predicted by a few of the lads here because the front 5 are shite and were beaten up a stick in the set piece and in work rate around the paddock, they lay the platform all Reddan got was horrible slow ball, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear...

The golden period is dead, we don't have the players to adapt to the new law changes, what you saw today is our short term future....

Absolutely agree... Anyone want to buy my world cup tickets?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: CiKe on November 07, 2010, 11:56:24 AM
Dinny, to be clear I wasn't blaming Sexton he had no platform whatsoever from the pack. Agree with you that the game has changed (and SA have not adapted either in the same way the Wallabies or Kiwis have) and hence he is far and away our best option, but still very far from world class in my opinion. He wasn't the root of the problem but his performance can't escape criticism. He missed and easy penalty at an early stage and his restarts were crap, but i presume just kicking it back to the Boks was management's game-plan as opposed to his own decision making.

I thought I had read the weather was to be better, hence expected more from our backs in spite of front five being clearly inferior, but with the rain lashing it down was always going to be more difficult, though still thought our backs handling left a lot to be desired.

Mick O'Driscoll has been good servant to Munster but if he is in WC squad then I think that is a barometer of where are expectations should be. Darcy still holds up well defensively but IMHO offers close to zero attacking threat these days.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 07, 2010, 12:19:21 PM
I only defend Sexton when I believe he is been harshly criticised and by the way I agree he is not world class maybe not international class but he is our best option unfortunately, forget about O'Gara's cameo in the last 15 there is a myriad of reasons why he did well instead look at his last international starts when he has been woeful.

Stringer (not his biggest fan) should start, the new law interpratations suit him to a tee and it's now all about quick ball and his organisation is excellent he brought that sense of urgency that was badly missed yesterday.

As for the front five, we don't have them, O'Callaghan is now past it, O'Driscoll should not be there period, Best not the same since his injury and the less said about Healy and Buckly the better. Only Flannery and O'Connell would improve the tight 5. I do hold high hopes for Devin Toner but he is 2/3 years from physical maturity. Sean O'Brien should be picked on merit and I'd put it up to Heaslip by giving Leamy a shot.

D'Arcy is not playing well and neither is BOD, the form Irish back is Johne Murphy and Earls has the rawest talent. The backline I'd pick against Samoa is Stringer, Sexton, Bowe, Murphy, O'Driscoll, Earls and Fitzgearld. Rob Kearney's head is up his hole on and off the pitch, his rate of regression is frightening...

And finally Alan Gaffney as backs coach is bringing nothing to the table, his coaching is all about exploiting perceived defensive weaknesses, as long he remains do not expect our backline to function...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: AZOffaly on November 07, 2010, 12:23:30 PM
Seriously anyone blaming Sexton hasn't a clue, the days of a 10 sitting in the pocket and kicking the ball away are long gone...

Ireland were beaten as predicted by a few of the lads here because the front 5 are shite and were beaten up a stick in the set piece and in work rate around the paddock, they lay the platform all Reddan got was horrible slow ball, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear...

The golden period is dead, we don't have the players to adapt to the new law changes, what you saw today is our short term future....


+ 1.

The front 5 were mopped up. Tony Buckley has been doing reasonably well for Munster, but he's never going to be a great srummager. Micko is a great servant for Munster, but when he plays it's because someone is injured. Donnacha O'Callaghan is a great wingman for Paulie, but he is not a #1 lock.

Irish rugby is going to go into a down period now, and the provinces, particulary Munster have to be held responsible. Leinster have unearthed a few reasonable (although not as good as advertised) players for Ireland like Kearney, Fitzgerald, Sexton etc. Munster have Keith Earls and nothing else Loyalty is great, but Munster have fallen into the Kerry GAA trap from 1987, which is a pack of 8 forwards all nearing or over 30 with big miles on the clock Now Varley (a good player) and the like are coming in and being exposed because of lack of game time.

The first choice Munster pack at this stage, in a big European game, is probably Horan, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy. Ireland needs Munster to be producing more young, hungry, ignorant forwards, but you cant do that if you're not playing them.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on November 07, 2010, 12:35:42 PM
I only defend Sexton when I believe he is been harshly criticised and by the way I agree he is not world class maybe not international class but he is our best option unfortunately, forget about O'Gara's cameo in the last 15 there is a myriad of reasons why he did well instead look at his last international starts when he has been woeful.

Stringer (not his biggest fan) should start, the new law interpratations suit him to a tee and it's now all about quick ball and his organisation is excellent he brought that sense of urgency that was badly missed yesterday.

As for the front five, we don't have them, O'Callaghan is now past it, O'Driscoll should not be there period, Best not the same since his injury and the less said about Healy and Buckly the better. Only Flannery and O'Connell would improve the tight 5. I do hold high hopes for Devin Toner but he is 2/3 years from physical maturity. Sean O'Brien should be picked on merit and I'd put it up to Heaslip by giving Leamy a shot.

D'Arcy is not playing well and neither is BOD, the form Irish back is Johne Murphy and Earls has the rawest talent. The backline I'd pick against Samoa is Stringer, Sexton, Bowe, Murphy, O'Driscoll, Earls and Fitzgearld. Rob Kearney's head is up his hole on and off the pitch, his rate of regression is frightening...

And finally Alan Gaffney as backs coach is bringing nothing to the table, his coaching is all about exploiting perceived defensive weaknesses, as long he remains do not expect our backline to function...

Johnny Murphy is not remotely international standard. Good provincial player and thats it.

Sexton does not control games at this level well enough. I agree on the basis of progression he should be playing but its up to him to start producing the goods. He's under pressure bigtime from O Gara who is playing out of his skin.

Kearney isnt, never was and never will be a world class player. His reputation is simply built on SA kicking to him one year and making him look great. The sooner he's dropped the better

We're in big trouble. Are supposed great players are only great when playing poor teams. Bar BOD, POC and Bowe what world class players do we have?
Heaslip is great until he's playing southern hemisphere opposition. Pierre Spies drove him back at least 12 yards at one stage in the loose.

Time to look at Fitz in the centre. Hasnt the gas for thw wing but a really skilled footballer who has bulked up a lot. Hed at least bring creativity to the centres.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Main Street on November 07, 2010, 12:58:44 PM
What has changed in the rules or the interpretation of the rules that now favour keeping the ball, over what we saw last year with lumping the ball regularly into the opposition half?

Should there not be hearty congratulation to O'Gara, not just for his performance as replacement yesterday but also for reaching the milestone of 100 caps?  And with many top class performances littered throughout those 100 caps.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: CiKe on November 07, 2010, 01:17:44 PM
Things do need to be jigged in the backline. I agree that the new rules suit Stringer perfectly, but only if we are going to have the backs to capitalise on it. Agree with Indiana about Kearney (seem to recall you banging on about this back during the Lions tour as well). He looks great under a high ball and has a thumping boot, but doesn't offer remotely near the running threat of the best full backs. If you aren't to play Fitzgerald there then he is the best we have and unfortunately I think we need Fitzgerald in the centre.

For me should be:

9 Stringer
10 Sexton
11 Bowe
12 Fitzgerald
13 O'Driscoll
14 Earls
15 Kearney

If we had another wing I'd like to see BOD moved inside to 12 with Earls outside him and Fitzgerald at full back, but I don't think we do. Whatever way you look at things, Kidney needs to shake things up a bit, as they are very stale.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 07, 2010, 01:27:03 PM
I can't understand why Geordan Murphy was discarded. He's got a raw deal all of his career from various international managements. Fionn Carr should also have been looked at especially when you consider that Horgan and Gavin Duffy were included in the initial squad.

How bad is Felix Jones' injury? Looked like he was going to make the Munster 15 shirt his own in the early weeks of the season.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on November 07, 2010, 01:36:30 PM
Things do need to be jigged in the backline. I agree that the new rules suit Stringer perfectly, but only if we are going to have the backs to capitalise on it. Agree with Indiana about Kearney (seem to recall you banging on about this back during the Lions tour as well). He looks great under a high ball and has a thumping boot, but doesn't offer remotely near the running threat of the best full backs. If you aren't to play Fitzgerald there then he is the best we have and unfortunately I think we need Fitzgerald in the centre.

For me should be:

9 Stringer
10 Sexton
11 Bowe
12 Fitzgerald
13 O'Driscoll
14 Earls
15 Kearney

If we had another wing I'd like to see BOD moved inside to 12 with Earls outside him and Fitzgerald at full back, but I don't think we do. Whatever way you look at things, Kidney needs to shake things up a bit, as they are very stale.

I did say that about Kearney and was shot down. He could have been world class in my view but never developed certain aspects of his game.
Namely his passing off his left hand and his counter attacking. Defenisvely very suspect. Murphy got pilloried for missing a few tackles yet Kearney misses a lot more and gets away with it.
Unfortunately he's more famous on the celebrity pages now due to his looks then his talent as a rugby player. Looks fade, being a great player never does. Pity because its actually too late for him to change his style of play now. He may try to do so but you dont develop counter attacking tendencies at 24.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 07, 2010, 01:38:37 PM
Seriously anyone blaming Sexton hasn't a clue, the days of a 10 sitting in the pocket and kicking the ball away are long gone...

Ireland were beaten as predicted by a few of the lads here because the front 5 are shite and were beaten up a stick in the set piece and in work rate around the paddock, they lay the platform all Reddan got was horrible slow ball, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear...

The golden period is dead, we don't have the players to adapt to the new law changes, what you saw today is our short term future....
Sorry but I have to call bullshit on that one.

Sexton has to shoulder some of the blame yesterday. Yes we were destroyed in the set piece but where was the continuity or calm provided by the half-back pairings. When did sexton set the tempo or reply to pressure. Missed the first kick to settle the nerves and contributed little all day. The contrast between himself and Rog was shocking. Thats undeniable. Its now the 3rd time in 1 year ROG has been parachuted in to save a match when Sexton is floundering. When will people learn?

I know what the reply will be now. "We were playing behind a beaten pack, Sexton can't be blamed". The first part is true and hence why i put this match down as a defeat but Ireland were diabolical with Sexton in charge. Also pack dominance is not the be all end all in rugby union. If so Italy would have won every 6 nations since its inception followed closely by England.

And now for all the "end is nigh" shite which is being poured out all-ready. FFS just because you couldn't call it right doesn't mean we are at the end of the road. Firstly ROG must play and Best must be disposed of. Hey presto, we have a out-half and a line-out. Kearny is now just Dempsey mark 2 and D'Arcy is a smaller version of Kevin Maggs. Huge room for improvement in these positions, and between Fitzgerald and Earls lies a certain solution. In what form I'm not so sure. David Wallace was very ineffective the other night as well, We must now seriously consider putting him out to pasture.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: CiKe on November 07, 2010, 01:45:20 PM
God I'd forgotten all about Murphy. More of a threat as a runner and a better off loader, is good under the high ball as well (although this is now of decreasing necessity with posession the order of the day). Not amazing defensively sure, but Kearney isn't great in this respect - witness his positioning for Aplon's try yesterday (great line sure, but Kearney sold himself very easily)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 07, 2010, 01:47:55 PM
What has changed in the rules or the interpretation of the rules that now favour keeping the ball, over what we saw last year with lumping the ball regularly into the opposition half?

Should there not be hearty congratulation to O'Gara, not just for his performance as replacement yesterday but also for reaching the milestone of 100 caps?  And with many top class performances littered throughout those 100 caps.

You forget that ROG is from Munster and this rugby thread belongs to the D4 worshippers.
 Secondly ROG did not reach our aspirations of World domination in rugby and so must not be attributed with any praise. i.e he is a scape goat.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: thewobbler on November 07, 2010, 01:54:32 PM
O Gara might have done this and done that in his career, but he has been a complete and utter disappointment in each World Cup appearance. If we are building towards a World Cup, it can't be done by giving him an armchair ride there, for history tells you he will disappoint.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: muppet on November 07, 2010, 02:06:57 PM
Sexton has 9 caps after yesterday.

It took David Humphreys a lot of tests to become the number one after Elwood.
It took Ronan O'Gara a hell of a lot of tests to become number one after Humphreys.

Sexton doesn't even have the provincial experience those guys had thanks to Contepomi among others. I think given a season or two injury free at Leinster as the main man he will hopefully become an international 10. But I agree that the World Cup might come too soon for him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Main Street on November 07, 2010, 02:46:38 PM
I don't understand the agenda against certain players who have represented Ireland with distinction, whether it be Robbie Keane or O'Gara.

Isn't 25 a good age for the top fly half in Ireland to lay his claim on the starting team? though Johnny looks about 21. Is it not a very desirable situation for the coach to have Sexton just about ready, with O'Gara chomping at the bit on the sidelines, still able to come on and play his part with guile and accuracy?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on November 07, 2010, 04:44:13 PM
Seriously anyone blaming Sexton hasn't a clue, the days of a 10 sitting in the pocket and kicking the ball away are long gone...

Ireland were beaten as predicted by a few of the lads here because the front 5 are shite and were beaten up a stick in the set piece and in work rate around the paddock, they lay the platform all Reddan got was horrible slow ball, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear...

The golden period is dead, we don't have the players to adapt to the new law changes, what you saw today is our short term future....
Sorry but I have to call bullshit on that one.

Sexton has to shoulder some of the blame yesterday. Yes we were destroyed in the set piece but where was the continuity or calm provided by the half-back pairings. When did sexton set the tempo or reply to pressure. Missed the first kick to settle the nerves and contributed little all day. The contrast between himself and Rog was shocking. Thats undeniable. Its now the 3rd time in 1 year ROG has been parachuted in to save a match when Sexton is floundering. When will people learn?

I know what the reply will be now. "We were playing behind a beaten pack, Sexton can't be blamed". The first part is true and hence why i put this match down as a defeat but Ireland were diabolical with Sexton in charge. Also pack dominance is not the be all end all in rugby union. If so Italy would have won every 6 nations since its inception followed closely by England.

And now for all the "end is nigh" shite which is being poured out all-ready. FFS just because you couldn't call it right doesn't mean we are at the end of the road. Firstly ROG must play and Best must be disposed of. Hey presto, we have a out-half and a line-out. Kearny is now just Dempsey mark 2 and D'Arcy is a smaller version of Kevin Maggs. Huge room for improvement in these positions, and between Fitzgerald and Earls lies a certain solution. In what form I'm not so sure. David Wallace was very ineffective the other night as well, We must now seriously consider putting him out to pasture.

Dan Carter would have struggled playing with Eoin Reddan yesterday.
Fact. Thats a glaring ommision in your analysis. Anyone who has played the game which I can only deduce you havent knows that an outhalf will struggle to play beside a scrum half playing as poorly as Reddan did yesterday.
ROG got to play with Stringer yesterday- another thing missing from the  above

I'd like to see Sexton play with Stringer and then make a judgment call.

The bottom line Ireland have 4 very average scrumhalves. Very average. England have a brilliant young player in Youngs. Oz have Genea, France have Parra, Yachvilli etc. New Zealands young scrum half was excellent yesterday against England. They nearly fell apart yesterday when he was taken off.
We have no-one in that class at9 . End of story. But Stringer can pass the ball. The rest of them cant
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 07, 2010, 05:32:40 PM
Seriously anyone blaming Sexton hasn't a clue, the days of a 10 sitting in the pocket and kicking the ball away are long gone...

The golden period is dead, we don't have the players to adapt to the new law changes, what you saw today is our short term future....
Sorry but I have to call bullshit on that one.
And now for all the "end is nigh" shite which is being poured out all-ready. FFS just because you couldn't call it right doesn't mean we are at the end of the road. Firstly ROG must play and Best must be disposed of. Hey presto, we have a out-half and a line-out. Kearny is now just Dempsey mark 2 and D'Arcy is a smaller version of Kevin Maggs. Huge room for improvement in these positions, and between Fitzgerald and Earls lies a certain solution. In what form I'm not so sure. David Wallace was very ineffective the other night as well, We must now seriously consider putting him out to pasture.

Dan Carter would have struggled playing with Eoin Reddan yesterday.
Fact. Thats a glaring ommision in your analysis. Anyone who has played the game which I can only deduce you havent knows that an outhalf will struggle to play beside a scrum half playing as poorly as Reddan did yesterday.
ROG got to play with Stringer yesterday- another thing missing from the  above.

I'd like to see Sexton play with Stringer and then make a judgment call.

The bottom line Ireland have 4 very average scrumhalves. Very average. England have a brilliant young player in Youngs. Oz have Genea, France have Parra, Yachvilli etc. New Zealands young scrum half was excellent yesterday against England. They nearly fell apart yesterday when he was taken off.
We have no-one in that class at 9. End of story. But Stringer can pass the ball. The rest of them cant
Fair points except for the fact that I have played the game. Secondly my opinion of Sexton is formed not only by yesterday but also by performances when playing with O'Leary.
Secondly you talk about having a "excellent" scrum-half. Scrum-half's cannot be all things to all men. Parra is a passer and kicker, Irish scrum-half's over you something else. O'Leary's a defender, Stringer a passer and Reddan a tester at the fringes (normally). Yachvilli was never an exceptional outhalf and I believe you are letting the point scoring ability of Parra colour your judgement.

You tailor your game as your resources demand. That is what half a SA team did yesterday. Irelands 9s would suffice but the game must be tailored to suit or exploit the strengths. Thats all other nations do. Parra is a relatively poor tackler, see a couple of weeks ago, but france don't rely on him defensively.

Anyway some good news. Seems changes are abound in our problem area. Court did well in the scrum when he came on. But how much of that is attributed to freshness?

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2010/1107/buckleyt_kearneyr_ireland.html
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on November 07, 2010, 06:44:12 PM
Seriously anyone blaming Sexton hasn't a clue, the days of a 10 sitting in the pocket and kicking the ball away are long gone...

The golden period is dead, we don't have the players to adapt to the new law changes, what you saw today is our short term future....
Sorry but I have to call bullshit on that one.
And now for all the "end is nigh" shite which is being poured out all-ready. FFS just because you couldn't call it right doesn't mean we are at the end of the road. Firstly ROG must play and Best must be disposed of. Hey presto, we have a out-half and a line-out. Kearny is now just Dempsey mark 2 and D'Arcy is a smaller version of Kevin Maggs. Huge room for improvement in these positions, and between Fitzgerald and Earls lies a certain solution. In what form I'm not so sure. David Wallace was very ineffective the other night as well, We must now seriously consider putting him out to pasture.

Dan Carter would have struggled playing with Eoin Reddan yesterday.
Fact. Thats a glaring ommision in your analysis. Anyone who has played the game which I can only deduce you havent knows that an outhalf will struggle to play beside a scrum half playing as poorly as Reddan did yesterday.
ROG got to play with Stringer yesterday- another thing missing from the  above.

I'd like to see Sexton play with Stringer and then make a judgment call.

The bottom line Ireland have 4 very average scrumhalves. Very average. England have a brilliant young player in Youngs. Oz have Genea, France have Parra, Yachvilli etc. New Zealands young scrum half was excellent yesterday against England. They nearly fell apart yesterday when he was taken off.
We have no-one in that class at 9. End of story. But Stringer can pass the ball. The rest of them cant
Fair points except for the fact that I have played the game. Secondly my opinion of Sexton is formed not only by yesterday but also by performances when playing with O'Leary.
Secondly you talk about having a "excellent" scrum-half. Scrum-half's cannot be all things to all men. Parra is a passer and kicker, Irish scrum-half's over you something else. O'Leary's a defender, Stringer a passer and Reddan a tester at the fringes (normally). Yachvilli was never an exceptional outhalf and I believe you are letting the point scoring ability of Parra colour your judgement.

You tailor your game as your resources demand. That is what half a SA team did yesterday. Irelands 9s would suffice but the game must be tailored to suit or exploit the strengths. Thats all other nations do. Parra is a relatively poor tackler, see a couple of weeks ago, but france don't rely on him defensively.

Anyway some good news. Seems changes are abound in our problem area. Court did well in the scrum when he came on. But how much of that is attributed to freshness?

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2010/1107/buckleyt_kearneyr_ireland.html
yachvilli is everything at scrum half- an outrageously talented player in my view. I think Parra is excellent. Hes an adequate tackler but excellent at most facets of the game. I would gladly swop some TOL's defensive abilities for a good passing technique. With the new laws I see TOL struggling.

Court is a better option then Healy at present. Dunno what to do with tighhead. Ross is the form player and should have started yesterday but i dont think the all blacks will suit him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 07, 2010, 07:02:58 PM
Quote
Sexton has to shoulder some of the blame yesterday. Yes we were destroyed in the set piece but where was the continuity or calm provided by the half-back pairings. When did sexton set the tempo or reply to pressure. Missed the first kick to settle the nerves and contributed little all day. The contrast between himself and Rog was shocking. Thats undeniable. Its now the 3rd time in 1 year ROG has been parachuted in to save a match when Sexton is floundering. When will people learn?

To ignore the failings of the front five is just ignorance, to ignore the failings of Reddan is just ignorance, to put forward the claims of man who has studied the opposition with all the analysis available for 60 minutes is just ignorance, to ignore the South African replacement policty is just ignorance, to claim a D4 agenda is yet further ignorance, to compare D'Arcy to Kevin Maggs is ignorance, in fact I just find your post ignorant.

Now answer me these questions...

1. How does an out-half set the tempo in a game of rugby?
2. If O'Gara is so good how come he probably gave the worst display from an Irish 10 in living memory in NZ?
3. What is the role of a Hooker in the line-out, what is the role of the lifters and what is the role of the jumper, the line-out is about team work, co-ordination, timing, power and communication. We failed on all accounts not just the throwing, replace Best with who Sean Cronin?
4. Do you understand what slow ball is and why it can kill any continuity?
5. Finally O'Gara missed the kick that mattered, did he choke as usual?


Finally Sexton was poor but he has better defence than O'Gara, better hands, more physical in contact, he does not have O'Gara's 100 caps of experience. A 15 minute cameo in game that was lost where we had to play catch-up rugby is not his 2nd coming. Rugby has progressed in the last 2 years, we have stood still and with such a conservative coach at the helm do not expect us to move forward anytime soon.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Declan on November 08, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/it-affects-every-facet-of-your-life-it-takes-from-you-im-a-different-person-when-this-is-bad-2410819.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/it-affects-every-facet-of-your-life-it-takes-from-you-im-a-different-person-when-this-is-bad-2410819.html)

Scary interview from Fogarty here. I'm amazed this hasn't got more attention
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 08, 2010, 09:44:04 AM
Know his in-laws well, very sad for him and unfortunately I believe this will come more common place in the next few years, Phil Vickery in England has to retire as well. The collisions in rugby are becoming more and more fearsome even as junior level.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: AZOffaly on November 08, 2010, 09:46:17 AM
Know his in-laws well, very sad for him and unfortunately I believe this will come more common place in the next few years, Phil Vickery in England has to retire as well. The collisions in rugby are becoming more and more fearsome even as junior level.

Is there an argument to wearing the shoulder pads and neck supports that the American Footballers wear?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 08, 2010, 10:48:44 AM
I think there is AZ, I was at an Academy game a few months and the verocity and agression at the breakdown was frightening and these were just young lads all under 20.

Only yesterday I was coaching at a game where one of the opposition was stretchered off with a neck injury and brought to hospital.

It needs to be addressed particularly at a professional level.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: AZOffaly on November 08, 2010, 10:51:04 AM
How many of the neck injuries are 'collision' injuries that padding and braces would help, versus injuries caused by things like scrums collapsing etc?

I've certainly noticed a lot of ferocity at breakdown time, but the scrum is still the area that seems most prone to people hurting their necks or spines.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 08, 2010, 11:11:01 AM
It's a combination of both the scrum is really about attrition and wear and tear which weakens the neck, props will be involved in most of the rucks as well, hitting hard, sealing off - your generally pillar and post defence - even picking and driving leaves their necks exposed.

They are the most vulnerable but in time I believe every player is at risk, some of the collsions at Saturdays game were frightening.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: AZOffaly on November 08, 2010, 11:49:09 AM
It's a combination of both the scrum is really about attrition and wear and tear which weakens the neck, props will be involved in most of the rucks as well, hitting hard, sealing off - your generally pillar and post defence - even picking and driving leaves their necks exposed.

They are the most vulnerable but in time I believe every player is at risk, some of the collsions at Saturdays game were frightening.

I made the same observation to my brother watching the Wales Australia game. Some of the tackles and ruck clearouts were just unreal in terms of pace, power and impact.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: bcarrier on November 08, 2010, 12:42:35 PM
Whether it is laws or not in my view Stringer has improved his game . Sexton and Stringer should be given some game together .

Remember reading something last year about trying out Ferris as a lock..any views on that ..we seen to have a few more back row options ?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 08, 2010, 01:13:21 PM
Whether it is laws or not in my view Stringer has improved his game . Sexton and Stringer should be given some game together .

Remember reading something last year about trying out Ferris as a lock..any views on that ..we seen to have a few more back row options ?

Yea Stringer deserves his shot, his form has been excellent in his limited appearances with Munster and Ireland, would be interesting to see how Sexton gets on with the quicker delivery.

Ferris is too good at six, our second row options are awful, can't see any light at the end of tunnel the injury to O'Connell and the retirement of O'Kelly has really hit home, just shows how good O'Kelly was, it's only now that he's gone that we miss him. Maybe someone Andrew Browne from Connacht deserves a shot, always impresses me when I see him play...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: AZOffaly on November 08, 2010, 01:14:29 PM
Whether it is laws or not in my view Stringer has improved his game . Sexton and Stringer should be given some game together .

Remember reading something last year about trying out Ferris as a lock..any views on that ..we seen to have a few more back row options ?

Yea Stringer deserves his shot, his form has been excellent in his limited appearances with Munster and Ireland, would be interesting to see how Sexton gets on with the quicker delivery.

Ferris is too good at six, our second row options are awful, can't see any light at the end of tunnel the injury to O'Connell and the retirement of O'Kelly has really hit home, just shows how good O'Kelly was, it's only now that he's gone that we miss him. Maybe someone Andrew Browne from Connacht deserves a shot, always impresses me when I see him play...

What about Devin Toner Dinny? How far away is he from being ready physically? He's a bit beanpolish.

Another thing that's hitting home is the criminal neglect of Bob Casey.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 08, 2010, 01:24:04 PM
He's 6' 11' or something ridiculous like, just turned 24 as well, tight 5 players really aren't at their prime till there late 20s early 30s in my opinion,  just look at how good Martin Johnson or John Eales were in their latter years. Anyhow Toner is a hookers dream, even Jackman could hit him but I'd say he's two years from been a guaranteed starter at Leinster, Nathan Hines though is bringing him along brilliantly and he's been very good for Leinster this year. Maybe we can't wait not if our line-out keeps functioning as it is...

As for big bad Bob, love his Irish Times article and he's been treated very harshly because he plays in England, no other reason, he scrummages well, shrewd line-out operator and provides leadership and a lilywhite to boot. Always thought himself and O'Connell would be a good partnership...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 08, 2010, 01:27:54 PM
Toner is now where casey was before he went to England to play.
Poor Bob was badly overlooked by Ireland , worse than Trevor Brennan was !
Bob could still do a job - def better than ryan or o'driscoll and imo way better than leo cullen.
Toner is 6' 10"  - though his uncle used to tell me that he was 7'.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 08, 2010, 01:30:04 PM
Hard to believe that Casey was involved as far back as the 1999 RWC. To think of some of the dross that got their chance ahead of him down the years - Matt McCullagh and Ryan Caldwell stand out.

It always seems to be the flourbags that get the raw deal - Geordan Murphy, Trevor Brennan, Bob Casey. Fergus McFadden, Johne Murphy and Fionn Carr have no chance so!  :D
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: AZOffaly on November 08, 2010, 01:32:57 PM
The Trevor Brennan story was cat. 'Send us a video and we'll take a look at you'. He played for Toulouse for f**k's sake.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on November 08, 2010, 02:14:07 PM
Is that true AZ? Was that under the management of steady eddie? Reminds me of when Mick McCarthy I think it was told Denis Irwin he would have to prove himself to him! Geordan Murphy has always been an outcast when it comes to Irish selection. The guy is captain of one of the most successful clubs in Europe and has won everything at club level.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: AZOffaly on November 08, 2010, 02:31:41 PM
Is that true AZ? Was that under the management of steady eddie? Reminds me of when Mick McCarthy I think it was told Denis Irwin he would have to prove himself to him! Geordan Murphy has always been an outcast when it comes to Irish selection. The guy is captain of one of the most successful clubs in Europe and has won everything at club level.

I'm sure it was true. Dinny might confirm. Eddie O'Sullivan's time it was I think.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Main Street on November 08, 2010, 07:44:53 PM
The only memory I have of Trevor playing for Ireland was that WC game against Australia at Lansdowne rd when one Aussie held him while another rained punches against his face and afair, the ref only sin binned Trevor.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Main Street on November 08, 2010, 08:27:06 PM
An interesting tribute to OGara  by an out and critic of his,  Stephen Jones,  when O'Gara won his 90th cap onMarch 2009
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article5803958.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1 (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article5803958.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1)

'for a whole chunk of his career I did not rate Ronan O’Gara.
My low rating was based on what I saw as an unambitious young player who lay as deep as Davy Jones’s locker and who often seemed to be happy to kick just enough penalty goals to ensure that the score for Munster or Ireland was one point more than the opposition. I have seen games where his defence was poor, where he could have expanded and did not, or failed to kill off a game and then found his team beaten. I also felt that when he did try to run the ball he looked thoroughly uncomfortable.
That was then. These days I find him a masterly operator. There is no shortage of outstanding fly halves around but I would take him on the Lions tour. His range of kicks is vast and, in a sense, old-fashioned. So few fly halves these days can drop kicks on the head of a shaky defender to land at the same time as the chasers, even long punting is a lost art that he retains. He is also a man you would back for that knee-knocking late place kick to win. Last season against Wasps at Thomond Park it was as if he had the match on a length of string, so uncanny was his anticipation.

He is also playing far flatter and I recall with delight the way he orchestrated a display of attacking by the Irish backs against Australia two seasons ago that has rarely been equalled. He still makes errors but his experience and well of self-belief seem to shrug them off where once they haunted him.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 08, 2010, 08:39:51 PM
Just going back to Saturday. This time last year Ireland got an undeserved draw against Australia after an equally shaky performance and there was little complaint. Two years ago they were easily beaten by New Zealand. This is also the first serious outing for months, so its too early to judge.
 
Had Ireland a fit O'Connell (or Cullen) and Flannery, the line out would probably have held up. They might even have put pressure on the South African line out.
 
I think Kidney is being ambitious with the style of play. There is a lot more emphasis on running the ball and moving it through the hands. Resulting in an increase in the amount of handling errors. Not helped by the weather conditions of course.
 
Ireland won a Grand Slam in 2009 by being the team that kicked more than anyone else. They forced tries by patiently grinding their way to the line.
 
In 2010 Kidney has changed tack a little. He probably lost the Triple Crown against Scotland last spring by having the team attempting to run in tries at every opportunity. Instead of engaging in the preliminaries of pack warfare and territorial kicking.
 
Whether this a coach naively wanting to win beautifully, or a wise head who reckons that Ireland need to evolve their style to actually seriously put it up to the Southern Hemisphere teams is another matter.
At the moment, Ireland wouldn't be a match for the French or the Welsh when it comes to running the ball though.
 
On the team selection. I'd give Stringer another shot at the big time. He may be a bit one-dimensional, but his snappy pass is definitely a huge asset at the moment.
 
I think Darcy at 12 doesn't have the vision and hands to bring other players into the game. While Ryle Nugent may love his dancing feet, he tends to dance into opponents and go to ground.
His best ever season for Ireland was in 2004 (world player of the year nominee, 6 nations player of the tournament) when he was 13 and O'Driscoll was at 12 feeding him ball and creating space for him.
Ireland could switch back to this, but perhaps it is time to try Sexton at 12. He can distribute better than D'arcy and may benefit from not having the pressure of making the tactical calls and play making at 10.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Joxer on November 09, 2010, 02:26:42 PM
Quote
Ireland head coach Delcan Kidney has made 10 personnel changes and one positional change to his team to face Samoa in the Guinness Series this Saturday.


Devin Toner will win his first cap for Ireland in the second row this Saturday, as one of the 11 changes to the starting team from the side that played against South Africa.


Toner will be partnered by the experienced Donncha O'Callaghan in the engine room and they will be supporting a new front row of Tom Court, Sean Cronin and John Hayes, who are all selected to start.


Denis Leamy and Sean O'Brien are called into the backrow with Jamie Heaslip retaining the number 8 position. Stephen Ferris and David Wallace make way in the backrow.


Luke Fitzgerald is the one positional switch in the team, he moves from wing to full back, with Andrew Trimble coming into the vacant left-wing position.


Paddy Wallace comes into the team at inside centre to partner captain Brian O'Driscoll, with Gordon D'Arcy dropping out of the starting XV.


Ronan O'Gara and Peter Stringer come into the side as the new half-back combination following their excellent substitute appearances against South Africa.


Declan Kidney will announce the replacements later this week.

Ireland team to play Samoa in the Guinness Series 2010, Aviva Stadium, 13 November, kick-off 14:30.


15 Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
14 Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (captain, UCD/Leinster)
12 Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
1 Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
2 Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
3 John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
4 Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
6 Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7 Sean O'Brien (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)


Replacements:
To be confirmed later in the week.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 09, 2010, 05:09:06 PM
almost the team i'd like to see play with only Earls on somewhere in the back line at the expense of Wallace and Ferris on instead of leamy.
OK Toner isnt up to it yet, but I am delighted for him to win his first cap.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on November 09, 2010, 09:49:01 PM
Just going back to Saturday. This time last year Ireland got an undeserved draw against Australia after an equally shaky performance and there was little complaint. Two years ago they were easily beaten by New Zealand. This is also the first serious outing for months, so its too early to judge.
 
Had Ireland a fit O'Connell (or Cullen) and Flannery, the line out would probably have held up. They might even have put pressure on the South African line out.
 
I think Kidney is being ambitious with the style of play. There is a lot more emphasis on running the ball and moving it through the hands. Resulting in an increase in the amount of handling errors. Not helped by the weather conditions of course.
 
Ireland won a Grand Slam in 2009 by being the team that kicked more than anyone else. They forced tries by patiently grinding their way to the line.
 
In 2010 Kidney has changed tack a little. He probably lost the Triple Crown against Scotland last spring by having the team attempting to run in tries at every opportunity. Instead of engaging in the preliminaries of pack warfare and territorial kicking.
 
Whether this a coach naively wanting to win beautifully, or a wise head who reckons that Ireland need to evolve their style to actually seriously put it up to the Southern Hemisphere teams is another matter.
At the moment, Ireland wouldn't be a match for the French or the Welsh when it comes to running the ball though.
 
On the team selection. I'd give Stringer another shot at the big time. He may be a bit one-dimensional, but his snappy pass is definitely a huge asset at the moment.
 
I think Darcy at 12 doesn't have the vision and hands to bring other players into the game. While Ryle Nugent may love his dancing feet, he tends to dance into opponents and go to ground.
His best ever season for Ireland was in 2004 (world player of the year nominee, 6 nations player of the tournament) when he was 13 and O'Driscoll was at 12 feeding him ball and creating space for him.
Ireland could switch back to this, but perhaps it is time to try Sexton at 12. He can distribute better than D'arcy and may benefit from not having the pressure of making the tactical calls and play making at 10.



1- Ireland are trying to play a more ambitous style of rugby with the wrong tactics. There is no counter attacking form the back 3. Anyone who thinks that the full back running the ball back tucked under one arm into contact is counter attacking can never have played the game. Kearney did this on 6 occasions on Saturday.

2- Ireland are trying to play ambitious rugby with the wrong personnel. thats a failure of management. I dont want to hear about they did in the past as a coaches. We're talking about the here and now. And the tactics and selection were miles off last week.

3- This is not too soon to judge. That was crap last Saturday. A resume. We were playing against a South African team at loggerhards with the coach, knackered after a long season and who never moved the ball beyond 12. And we still couldnt win.

4- The facts are we have little in the way of strength in depth and we simply cant match the Southern Hemisphere. The question this year wil we beat Scotland and Wales? I cant see us beating England and France. England are 2 centres short of a bloody good team.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on November 09, 2010, 10:44:19 PM
1- Ireland are trying to play a more ambitous style of rugby with the wrong tactics. There is no counter attacking form the back 3. Anyone who thinks that the full back running the ball back tucked under one arm into contact is counter attacking can never have played the game. Kearney did this on 6 occasions on Saturday.

2- Ireland are trying to play ambitious rugby with the wrong personnel. thats a failure of management. I dont want to hear about they did in the past as a coaches. We're talking about the here and now. And the tactics and selection were miles off last week.

3- This is not too soon to judge. That was crap last Saturday. A resume. We were playing against a South African team at loggerhards with the coach, knackered after a long season and who never moved the ball beyond 12. And we still couldnt win.

4- The facts are we have little in the way of strength in depth and we simply cant match the Southern Hemisphere. The question this year wil we beat Scotland and Wales? I cant see us beating England and France. England are 2 centres short of a bloody good team.

I would agree with what your saying there. Kearney was a fantastic full back under the high ball when teams kicked the leather out of the ball but that isnt happening anymore. I think Fitz can offer more of a threat from a counter attacking perspective at full back than Kearney. I think a centre partnership of BOD at 12 and Bowe at 13 could be worth looking at maybe against Argentina but i doubt it will happen. Strength in depth is a major problem as demonstrated with Mick O'Driscoll coming in for O'Connell last week. I said in a previous post during the summer internationals if Mick O'Driscoll is our 3rd choice lock then we are in serious bother. I often think (and its more than likely pure rubbish) that young kids playing now dont see the front 5 positions being as glamorous as the 6-15 positions and thats part of the problem. They would rather be a Heaslip or a BOD than a John Hayes.

You are right in what you are saying about England being a few players short of being a good team. Centres as you say is a problem for them (Delon Armitage at 13 could be awesome) but i still dont think they have their back row balance right just yet. With a more experienced coach than Johnston they could be contenders for the RWC next year.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: INDIANA on November 09, 2010, 10:57:51 PM
1- Ireland are trying to play a more ambitous style of rugby with the wrong tactics. There is no counter attacking form the back 3. Anyone who thinks that the full back running the ball back tucked under one arm into contact is counter attacking can never have played the game. Kearney did this on 6 occasions on Saturday.

2- Ireland are trying to play ambitious rugby with the wrong personnel. thats a failure of management. I dont want to hear about they did in the past as a coaches. We're talking about the here and now. And the tactics and selection were miles off last week.

3- This is not too soon to judge. That was crap last Saturday. A resume. We were playing against a South African team at loggerhards with the coach, knackered after a long season and who never moved the ball beyond 12. And we still couldnt win.

4- The facts are we have little in the way of strength in depth and we simply cant match the Southern Hemisphere. The question this year wil we beat Scotland and Wales? I cant see us beating England and France. England are 2 centres short of a bloody good team.

I would agree with what your saying there. Kearney was a fantastic full back under the high ball when teams kicked the leather out of the ball but that isnt happening anymore. I think Fitz can offer more of a threat from a counter attacking perspective at full back than Kearney. I think a centre partnership of BOD at 12 and Bowe at 13 could be worth looking at maybe against Argentina but i doubt it will happen. Strength in depth is a major problem as demonstrated with Mick O'Driscoll coming in for O'Connell last week. I said in a previous post during the summer internationals if Mick O'Driscoll is our 3rd choice lock then we are in serious bother. I often think (and its more than likely pure rubbish) that young kids playing now dont see the front 5 positions being as glamorous as the 6-15 positions and thats part of the problem. They would rather be a Heaslip or a BOD than a John Hayes.

You are right in what you are saying about England being a few players short of being a good team. Centres as you say is a problem for them (Delon Armitage at 13 could be awesome) but i still dont think they have their back row balance right just yet. With a more experienced coach than Johnston they could be contenders for the RWC next year.
With johnson and andrews behind the scenes they have no chance I agree. With the right coaching ticket they would be very formidable. In my opinion.

Buckley has to start delivering or else start using younger TH's. Ross has to play at some point to see. What harm? He's in great form

I like the team for Saturday. The opposition are poor but at least Kidney has acknowledged his errors and picked on form this week.

Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hound on November 10, 2010, 10:56:46 AM
Strength in depth is a major problem as demonstrated with Mick O'Driscoll coming in for O'Connell last week. I said in a previous post during the summer internationals if Mick O'Driscoll is our 3rd choice lock then we are in serious bother.

Not to mentioned that the hugely overrated O'Callaghan is our 2nd choice! He's been getting away with inept performances for years, and its always excused by his supposed great partnership with POC or his supposed great unseen work. When is he ever a man of the match contender? I seriously can't remember him ever even been mentioned as a contender in any Irish or Munster match.

I see Toner interviewed in the Irish Times today saying he'll do the calling for the lineout on Saturday because he has more experience at it than O'Callaghan. This is Toner's first international cap and he's started only 4 or 5 Heineken Cup games. O'Callaghan has 64 Irish caps and probably around 100 Munster caps. I know there's more to lock play than just winning your lineouts but still its a telling indication of how much O'Callaghan has been carried over the years.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 10, 2010, 11:50:18 AM
Strength in depth is a major problem as demonstrated with Mick O'Driscoll coming in for O'Connell last week. I said in a previous post during the summer internationals if Mick O'Driscoll is our 3rd choice lock then we are in serious bother.

Not to mentioned that the hugely overrated O'Callaghan is our 2nd choice! He's been getting away with inept performances for years, and its always excused by his supposed great partnership with POC or his supposed great unseen work. When is he ever a man of the match contender? I seriously can't remember him ever even been mentioned as a contender in any Irish or Munster match.

I see Toner interviewed in the Irish Times today saying he'll do the calling for the lineout on Saturday because he has more experience at it than O'Callaghan. This is Toner's first international cap and he's started only 4 or 5 Heineken Cup games. O'Callaghan has 64 Irish caps and probably around 100 Munster caps. I know there's more to lock play than just winning your lineouts but still its a telling indication of how much O'Callaghan has been carried over the years.
I can recall one munster match (HC) of real importance when he was simply outstanding in the absence of POC. MOTM that day as far as I can recall. Can't remember the match or the opposition though.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 10, 2010, 01:17:05 PM
In terms of the first choice Ireland team does anyone else agree that Ireland need Keith Earls on the pitch? Preferably at outside centre with O'Driscoll moving to inside centre or have them both play left and right centre. The Darcy and O'Driscoll partnership at this stage is beginning to slow down and Earls can make breaks for fun.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2010, 06:29:19 PM
Strength in depth is a major problem as demonstrated with Mick O'Driscoll coming in for O'Connell last week. I said in a previous post during the summer internationals if Mick O'Driscoll is our 3rd choice lock then we are in serious bother.

Not to mentioned that the hugely overrated O'Callaghan is our 2nd choice! He's been getting away with inept performances for years, and its always excused by his supposed great partnership with POC or his supposed great unseen work. When is he ever a man of the match contender? I seriously can't remember him ever even been mentioned as a contender in any Irish or Munster match.

I see Toner interviewed in the Irish Times today saying he'll do the calling for the lineout on Saturday because he has more experience at it than O'Callaghan. This is Toner's first international cap and he's started only 4 or 5 Heineken Cup games. O'Callaghan has 64 Irish caps and probably around 100 Munster caps. I know there's more to lock play than just winning your lineouts but still its a telling indication of how much O'Callaghan has been carried over the years.

Think you are being very harsh on DOC. He is involved in every ruck, maul, scrap and battle in any match I watch. With O'Connell, Heaslip and other exotic options at the glamorous end of the line-out he is rarely used for Ireland or Munster. But please point to a front of the line lock that massacres him on a regular basis.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: trileacman on November 13, 2010, 04:49:20 PM
Missed this match. How'd it go?? Not good by all accounts.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 13, 2010, 06:32:29 PM
Almost a carbon copy of last weeks game. We conceded penalties for dropping our own scrum in the first half. Rte missed the second Irish try. Missed a good game between South Africa and Wales to watch it.

We still won and only lost by a couple of points last week, but we need to improve a lot to avoid being destryed by the All Blacks.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: tyroneboi on November 13, 2010, 07:20:42 PM
Almost a carbon copy of last weeks game. We conceded penalties for dropping our own scrum in the first half. Rte missed the second Irish try. Missed a good game between South Africa and Wales to watch it.

We still won and only lost by a couple of points last week, but we need to improve a lot to avoid being destryed by the All Blacks.

Fearing the worst for next weekend. They looked in 2nd or 3rd gear against the Scots and still won 49-3. If the ABs keep this form up then noone will get near them next year at the RWC. But suppose thats always been their problem in that they always play very well between world cups and not when it matter most.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on November 13, 2010, 07:39:56 PM
Get the Xmas money...back the All Blacks minus the h'cap 8)
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: screenexile on November 13, 2010, 09:56:25 PM
Watched the England game instead of that muck we were involved with. . . .I have a feeling that my first Irish Rugby experience next week will be a sobering one but I am still very excited to see the ABs.

Anyway England are shaping up to be a decent side. Their performance today was immense, it's like the more we regress the more they progress. They look like they could do damage in the 6N and possibly mount a challenge for the WC too. I have no idea where we go from here to be honest. With nothing of any significance breaking through it looks like we will struggle for a while!!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 10:06:50 PM
Agree screenexile, i watch a lot of rugby, especially the English Premiership and Heineken Cup so i'm very familiar with all these players. Chris Ashton is a player that a lot of people wont have heard of but he is a class act, the try he scored today from near his own try line was amazing. Will be one of the top of players in this years 6N along with his Northampton clubmates courtney Lawes and Ben Foden. Throw in Ben Youngs from Leicester into that mix too.

Yer man Foden goes out with your doll from The Saturdays, Una Healy, from Tipp i think, no wonder he is always running about grinning from ear to ear !!
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Capt Pat on November 13, 2010, 10:15:01 PM
In fairness the Australian scrum is nothing short of disastrous and that is the bedrock of a teams challenge. They are a good team and can get away with it some times but until they sort out that area of the team they will always be in danger of getting pushed aside by the top teams.

I didn't see the game, Was the Aussie scrum pushed around the place?
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Hoof Hearted on November 13, 2010, 10:19:55 PM
In fairness the Australian scrum is nothing short of disastrous and that is the bedrock of a teams challenge. They are a good team and can get away with it some times but until they sort out that area of the team they will always be in danger of getting pushed aside by the top teams.

I didn't see the game, Was the Aussie scrum pushed around the place?

no more than the irish front row was.
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: Celt_Man on November 14, 2010, 12:39:38 AM
What a load of shite today... scrum was embarrassing at times... and for those who thought O'Gara was the answer...
Title: Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
Post by: magpie seanie on November 14, 2010, 05:53:33 AM
What a load of shite today.