Author Topic: Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66  (Read 16347 times)

grounded

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Re: Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66
« Reply #285 on: March 22, 2017, 10:46:31 PM »
That article from Jude Collins hits the nail on the head. In particular the fact that Trimble and Robinson had to wait until he was dead before they could utter a positive sentiment about the man.
            In a way it sort of sums up the entire Unionist mindset of not an inch and lie down croppie. During the peace process Martin genuinely tried to reach out to the other side of the community. He tried to put himself in their shoes took risks and pushed the boundaries of his own Republicanism in order to show good faith and keep the peace.
            Look at what happened to any Unionist leader who ' did a Lundy ' . Trimble got the boot for the timmerity of attempting to power share. Eventually Paisley got the same treatment for daring to have a friendly relationship with Martin. And last but not least magic Mike got the boot for merely saying he would give his second preference to a party from the other side of the house.
             The very fact that our previous first minister has yet to ' decide if ' she would attend the funeral of her deputy first minister is all part of the same aul backward looking mindset.          Not that i would highly rate his intellect but sadly i'd say Jamie ' flegger' Bryson's views on Nationalism would broadly be in line with the majority of Loyalists and Unionism when he said that ' Sinn Fein are great at trying to reach out to Unionists but they dont really mean it as secretly they still want a United Ireland and that these acts of friendship were just another strategy'. Sadly with a few notable exceptions that is the Unionist mentality. They see it as a sign of weakness, when in fact reaching out to a future Nationalist majority is exactly what they should do. But alas they can't see the elephant in the room.

The buck plannng to blow unionists up a few years earlier would hardly find many friends in the unionist camp no matter how much he tried to reach out. It's not him that should have been in a position of power to begin with in the nationalist movement.

I think you've manage to miss the entire point of Jude's blog and my post.
     Anyway Who was the buck or buckos that planted the first bombs of the ' troubles ' ? 
   

randomusername

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Re: Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66
« Reply #286 on: March 22, 2017, 10:48:58 PM »
I understand what drive men of the 60's and 70's to join the IRA but I can't countenance some of their actions once they had joined it. Had they stuck to strictly military or strategic targets most of that would have been defensible but most of the time innocents were targeted. What did the deaths of Nicholas Knatchbull or Paul Maxwell have to do with republicanism or Irish independence? Posters regularly round on Fearon when he defends how the church abused and caused the deaths of hundreds of children but yet can find room to defend the IRA who were complicit in the deaths of many innocent women and children. Many here have recounted stories about the troubles but no amount of harassment at UDR checkpoints or guns being waved in your face is worth the lives of innocent children.

Leaving that aside, I had great time for Martin McGuinness. Too much has been made of his chuckle brother routine with Paisley and using Paisley as a counter-point. His nearest equivalent would have been David Ervine who was also also a paramilitary turned politician and also a man whom held my respect. To their credit both seen the futility of the bloodshed and had a humility in the post-troubles years that to me dictated a sense of remorse for the years of slaughter. That humility I find lacking in Adams, Robinson, Foster and to a certain extent Paisley who all appear/appeared to think that the peace process was their accomplishment as opposed to how they should feel; that the troubles was their fault.

It was a pretty desperate campaign really. I don't know how the people who killed Patsy Gillespie for example can sleep at night. My pal's dad was shot dead in front of him because he supplied the british army with construction materials. His lack of bitterness amazes me, I'd never get over it. This was in the early nineties and it just seems like a desperate waste of life.

I guess I'm republican - or staunchly nationalist anyway - but I find it very hard to justify and I'd be skeptical enough about Adams and McGuinness' intentions throughout it all. It's something I grapple with anyway.

Only for unionist intransigence, blatant discrimination and british arrogance the whole thing would have been avoided though.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 11:02:08 PM by randomusername »

stew

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Re: Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66
« Reply #287 on: March 22, 2017, 10:56:59 PM »
That article from Jude Collins hits the nail on the head. In particular the fact that Trimble and Robinson had to wait until he was dead before they could utter a positive sentiment about the man.
            In a way it sort of sums up the entire Unionist mindset of not an inch and lie down croppie. During the peace process Martin genuinely tried to reach out to the other side of the community. He tried to put himself in their shoes took risks and pushed the boundaries of his own Republicanism in order to show good faith and keep the peace.
            Look at what happened to any Unionist leader who ' did a Lundy ' . Trimble got the boot for the timmerity of attempting to power share. Eventually Paisley got the same treatment for daring to have a friendly relationship with Martin. And last but not least magic Mike got the boot for merely saying he would give his second preference to a party from the other side of the house.
             The very fact that our previous first minister has yet to ' decide if ' she would attend the funeral of her deputy first minister is all part of the same aul backward looking mindset.          Not that i would highly rate his intellect but sadly i'd say Jamie ' flegger' Bryson's views on Nationalism would broadly be in line with the majority of Loyalists and Unionism when he said that ' Sinn Fein are great at trying to reach out to Unionists but they dont really mean it as secretly they still want a United Ireland and that these acts of friendship were just another strategy'. Sadly with a few notable exceptions that is the Unionist mentality. They see it as a sign of weakness, when in fact reaching out to a future Nationalist majority is exactly what they should do. But alas they can't see the elephant in the room.

The buck plannng to blow unionists up a few years earlier would hardly find many friends in the unionist camp no matter how much he tried to reach out. It's not him that should have been in a position of power to begin with in the nationalist movement.

I think you've manage to miss the entire point of Jude's blog and my post.
     Anyway Who was the buck or buckos that planted the first bombs of the ' troubles ' ? 
   

First bombs or last it does not matter, bombs would have been unnecessary if the british had treated Catholics with a modicum of decency, they didnt and the result was decades of midery that impacted every family one way or the other.


The neanderthal that is Arlene Foster cannot decide to go to a fuckin funeral of a colleague she worked with because he was the leader of the IRA back in the day even though he helped bring us peace, hopefully the coming generations are a bit more enlightened than mine and get over the shit they never lived through.
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Windmill abu

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Re: Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66
« Reply #288 on: Today at 12:52:51 AM »
I come from a Republican background (Sinn Fein). My wife is from a Nationalist background (SDLP). We both had uncles shot dead during the troubles and our political outlooks are very different. One thing we do agree on however is that when a Nationalist politician makes any kind of attempt at reconciliation with their Unionist counterparts it is in variably met with rejection and suspicion. Each time it happens one or other of us will say the same thing "You can't educate pork"
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