Author Topic: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out  (Read 15118 times)

WeeDonns

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July Holidays
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 11:04:04 AM »
The 12th is on a Saturday with the Bank Holiday on the Monday.
Would the "12th Fortnight" be from 5th/6th - 19th/20th July? or 12th/13th - 26th/27th?

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Also; Is there some sort of other holiday period for the North Tyrone clubs? I've heard of it but never really understood why it existed..

WeeDonns

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Friday Night Games
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2013, 11:40:31 AM »

In the links below, you can see how we could have 10 league games played by the July break, if;

- We play on the 2x bank holiday weekends - Friday nights I'm sure would be preferred?
- the first 3 rounds are starred games ( Round 1 definitely starred, 2& 3 only if Tyrone make league Semi & Final)
- Play on Fri/Sat if Tyrone have a league game on Sunday
- No games on Tyrone Championship weekends
- Easter weekend free


Quote
Scenario 1
Win Ulster, go all the way to AIF
•   Scenario 1A = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1A.xls
•   Scenario 1B = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1B.xls
•   Scenario 1C = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1C.xls
•   Scenario 1D = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1D.xls

* You could argue that we should play a starred round of fixtures on the weekend of the Preliminary round as the game is in Omagh, so it's not like people would be making a weekend away for it in Dublin etc like later on in the Championship


Looking at Friday night games, I'm not sure if that would be possible on the first May bank holiday as it may be too dark. Games are normally played at 6:15 and 7:30. Sunset is at 8:58PM so it would be getting dark towards the end of the Senior game.
The earliest Friday night game i can see in recent years has been 17th May with sunset at 9:22PM. The second May bank holiday shouldn't be a problem.

As this is a Friday night round, with many people coming straight from work, could you fixture this as a 'local round' where distances between clubs needs to be under 30mins??
With that in mind, do you think clubs would play a reserve game on a Thursday and the Senior game on Friday?


LeoMc

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Re: Friday Night Games
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2013, 11:57:09 AM »

In the links below, you can see how we could have 10 league games played by the July break, if;

- We play on the 2x bank holiday weekends - Friday nights I'm sure would be preferred?
- the first 3 rounds are starred games ( Round 1 definitely starred, 2& 3 only if Tyrone make league Semi & Final)
- Play on Fri/Sat if Tyrone have a league game on Sunday
- No games on Tyrone Championship weekends
- Easter weekend free


Quote
Scenario 1
Win Ulster, go all the way to AIF
•   Scenario 1A = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1A.xls
•   Scenario 1B = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1B.xls
•   Scenario 1C = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1C.xls
•   Scenario 1D = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1D.xls

* You could argue that we should play a starred round of fixtures on the weekend of the Preliminary round as the game is in Omagh, so it's not like people would be making a weekend away for it in Dublin etc like later on in the Championship


Looking at Friday night games, I'm not sure if that would be possible on the first May bank holiday as it may be too dark. Games are normally played at 6:15 and 7:30. Sunset is at 8:58PM so it would be getting dark towards the end of the Senior game.
The earliest Friday night game i can see in recent years has been 17th May with sunset at 9:22PM. The second May bank holiday shouldn't be a problem.

As this is a Friday night round, with many people coming straight from work, could you fixture this as a 'local round' where distances between clubs needs to be under 30mins??
With that in mind, do you think clubs would play a reserve game on a Thursday and the Senior game on Friday?
Good call, I had been thinking reserve game on Saturdays to allow the Friday night matches to start earlier in the year but it puts pressure on panels to be able to field Saturday & Sunday.

I would (back in the day) have been OK with Thursday night training. For Senior clubs with big picks it would be an opportunity for the management to have a more focused senior training whilst most reserves were engaged elsewhere.

Fionntamhnach

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2013, 01:25:48 PM »
I'd been looking at something like this myself a few days ago, and these were the important bits I found.

* It is not too complicated or messy to get senior league & championship fixtures arranged up until around early August. After that is where it becomes unpredictable because if Tyrone is in the All-Ireland semi-final stage this will ultimately impact on club football given the 13 days rule and if they were to reach the All-Ireland final, 20 days - in that scenario club football could be killed stone dead in the county for much of September.

* If Tyrone get no further than the All-Ireland quarter final stages, this releases pressure on those planning fixtures from August onwards, as was seen in the 2010, 2011 and 2012 seasons.

* It is potentially possible for up to 13 rounds of league games to be played up to and including Sunday 6th July. However to get to this number you need to do the following (1) Start the season on Sunday 23rd March, which could see a large gap until the next round of games, (2) have two double weekends on the two May Bank Holiday weekends, (3) Tyrone don't reach the NFL final (which is possibly to be played this year in New York), (4) Two starred round games are played on the weekend before the USFC vs. Down and also the weekend played before the first round of the qualifiers & Ulster SFC Semi Finals. This can be eased a bit to cover 10-11 games before the July break including delaying one starred round of fixtures to be held off until afterwards.

* What appears to be the ideal time for the first round of club championship games is around the end of July and start of August, depending on Tyrone's involvement in the All-Ireland series. This doesn't leave the 1st round being played too early while allowing some breathing room later in the year if needed.

* The return of a double round of fixtures over a weekend should be considered in my opinion and arguably the two May Bank Holidays give the best opportunity for this to happen. Because of player commitment that is built up over this, it should happen no more than twice in the season. The double round weekends got a bad rep a few years ago in the 4 division set up when two of them were set on consecutive weekends meaning players played four games in nine days. To keep things in perspective, two Friday night fixtures should (a) as far as possible be between two teams within a 40-45 minute drive from each other, though it'll be difficult to meet this for all clubs, and (b) consideration should be given to the reserve tie of that fixture being played on the night before to allow all players enough time for travelling for each game and to allow for sunlight. Clubs which can play home games under floodlights should potentially be given attention to having home advantage on these rounds of games.

* If Tyrone are fortunate enough to reach the All-Ireland Semi-Final this year again, it should be the case that if an All-County League round of fixtures can't be played, the reserve league should continue on to its conclusion on Friday or Saturday evenings when that is the case from Friday 22nd August onwards with the first round of reserve championship games taking place on the 15th-17th August after the Senior/Intermediate/Junior Football Championship first round games played. Any Reserve championship game around this time from the quarter finals onwards should be fitted around fixtures where by there is at a minimum a two day gap from any league game. The senior part of the respective round of fixtures can be played later on, meaning (a) reserve players can get their season wrapped up quicker without being affected by county teams, (b) less likelyhood of walkovers being conceded in the reserve league, and (c) for the corresponding senior fixtures that may take place in October or November, the lack of a prior reserve game means the playing field should be in a better condition especially in poor weather.

I'll go more into it all later.
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Fionntamhnach

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Re: July Holidays
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2013, 01:36:57 PM »
The 12th is on a Saturday with the Bank Holiday on the Monday.
Would the "12th Fortnight" be from 5th/6th - 19th/20th July? or 12th/13th - 26th/27th?
I would be of the opinion that it would commence from the first Monday before 12th July, running from 7th to 20th July.

This doesn't work out too bad for a fixture planning POV. If Tyrone are involved in these games, the All-Ireland Qualifier Round 2 will likely be on Saturday 12th July and Round 3 & the Ulster SFC final will be on the weekend of 19th/20th July, meaning that bar a disastrous championship campaign, Tyrone will be involved in at least one of these ties.

Also; Is there some sort of other holiday period for the North Tyrone clubs? I've heard of it but never really understood why it existed..
For a long time it was the case that for most of Tyrone the holiday period was two weeks in around the 12th July, in common with much of the north. However it was different for a number of clubs in around the Strabane area where the holiday coincided with the August Bank Holiday in the Republic. The reason for this I believe was because of a large amount of people in the area working in Donegal and given the holiday period applicable there. I remember about a decade ago while the rest of the county was on the July holiday period, Strabane and Clann na nGael played a league fixture which was the only adult activity in the county in those two weeks. However the August holiday for northern clubs has largely died off, simply because it becomes as good as impossible to plan league games around two holiday periods which affect different clubs. Would be different if there was a regional competition involved, but for an All-County competition it is very tricky.
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Fionntamhnach

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2013, 01:54:55 PM »
We'll start planning out all the possible scenarios
Scenario 1
Win Ulster, go all the way to AIF
Scenario 2
Knocked out in first round, go all the way to AIF
Scenario 3
Knocked out in Ulster Qtr Final, go all the way to AIF
Scenario 4
Knocked out in Ulster Semi- Final, go all the way to AIF
Scenario 5
Knocked out in Ulster Final, go all the way to AIF

Many more involving the qualifiers..

I'll start with the easy ones.
In the links below, you can see how we could have 10 league games played by the July break, if;

- We play on the 2x bank holiday weekends - Friday nights I'm sure would be preferred?
- the first 3 rounds are starred games ( Round 1 definitely starred, 2& 3 only if Tyrone make league Semi & Final)
- Play on Fri/Sat if Tyrone have a league game on Sunday
- No games on Tyrone Championship weekends
- Easter weekend free


Quote
Scenario 1
Win Ulster, go all the way to AIF
•   Scenario 1A = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1A.xls
•   Scenario 1B = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1B.xls
•   Scenario 1C = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1C.xls
•   Scenario 1D = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1D.xls

* You could argue that we should play a starred round of fixtures on the weekend of the Preliminary round as the game is in Omagh, so it's not like people would be making a weekend away for it in Dublin etc like later on in the Championship
Looking at what you've listed there Dons, I'd be a little reluctant to potentially have all first three rounds of games starred but I guess that would depend on circumstance. If you were to have a starred round on the weekend of the NFL game vs. Dublin, it would probably be worth to start the ACL on Sunday 23rd March with a full round of fixtures as that gets one round of full fixtures out of the way, it also stops players hanging around too much from pre-season training and it's not too long a gap considering there was a two week gap in the fixtures at the start of this year anyway.

With regards to the Easter weekend, you could have it so that if Tyrone reach the NFL semi finals that a non-starred round is played the day before, with any games affected by players in the county league panel being put back to being played on Holy Saturday. Not sure if that would be well welcomed, the lateness of Easter this year throws a spanner in the works. Wasn't there a round of games played over Easter weekend in 2011? (Edit: There were league games on Holy Saturday in 2010 and 2011 it appears).
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blewuporstuffed

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2013, 02:43:58 PM »
Re the holiday period,
I think moving it till the august fornight may be the way to go.This would correspond with allireland qtr/semi finals if tyrone were to get that far, a period were there are likely to be no club games anyway.
I would say for most club players, when the holiday period is, doesnt matter so much, as long as there is prior notice that its coming up.
I would say as many compnies now take the august fortnight off as the july one anyway.
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WeeDonns

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2013, 02:48:59 PM »
Lots of great stuff there Fionntamhnach.

* What appears to be the ideal time for the first round of club championship games is around the end of July and start of August, depending on Tyrone's involvement in the All-Ireland series. This doesn't leave the 1st round being played too early while allowing some breathing room later in the year if needed.

I think most clubs would like a competitive league fixture inbetween the July break and their first Championship game, but if the July break is 7th-20th July inclusive, then we play a round of league fixtures the weekend of 26th/27th July and the following Saturday and Sunday (2nd & 3rd August) its the All-Ireland Quarter Finals.

So, have a round of league fixtures on 20th July, leaving the following weekend for the Championship first round? It eats into the July Holidays, but realistically managers would be organising challenge games that weekend anyway if the Championship was the following weekend


* The return of a double round of fixtures over a weekend should be considered in my opinion and arguably the two May Bank Holidays give the best opportunity for this to happen. Because of player commitment that is built up over this, it should happen no more than twice in the season. The double round weekends got a bad rep a few years ago in the 4 division set up when two of them were set on consecutive weekends meaning players played four games in nine days. To keep things in perspective, two Friday night fixtures should (a) as far as possible be between two teams within a 40-45 minute drive from each other, though it'll be difficult to meet this for all clubs, and (b) consideration should be given to the reserve tie of that fixture being played on the night before to allow all players enough time for travelling for each game and to allow for sunlight. Clubs which can play home games under floodlights should potentially be given attention to having home advantage on these rounds of games.

A double round of fixtures would help, but I'd be reluctant to do this for BOTH the May bank holidays. Simply because i enjoy my bank holiday weekends and think it would be unfair to use up both of them for football.
I'd definitely be keen on the Reserve game being played the night before, as if its 'put off until another date' it rarely gets played

* If Tyrone are fortunate enough to reach the All-Ireland Semi-Final this year again, it should be the case that if an All-County League round of fixtures can't be played, the reserve league should continue on to its conclusion on Friday or Saturday evenings when that is the case from Friday 22nd August onwards with the first round of reserve championship games taking place on the 15th-17th August after the Senior/Intermediate/Junior Football Championship first round games played. Any Reserve championship game around this time from the quarter finals onwards should be fitted around fixtures where by there is at a minimum a two day gap from any league game. The senior part of the respective round of fixtures can be played later on, meaning (a) reserve players can get their season wrapped up quicker without being affected by county teams, (b) less likelyhood of walkovers being conceded in the reserve league, and (c) for the corresponding senior fixtures that may take place in October or November, the lack of a prior reserve game means the playing field should be in a better condition especially in poor weather.
Totally agree. Lets get this passed at the county convention...

WeeDonns

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2013, 02:54:53 PM »
Re the holiday period,
I think moving it till the august fornight may be the way to go.This would correspond with All-Ireland qtr/semi finals if Tyrone were to get that far, a period were there are likely to be no club games anyway.
I would say for most club players, when the holiday period is, doesn't matter so much, as long as there is prior notice that its coming up.
I would say as many companies now take the august fortnight off as the July one anyway.
That would certainly make it easier and I know would suit a lot of players if they just knew for certain when they could book holidays and not have them clash, but I do know of some club players that can only take their holidays on those two weeks so it wouldn't be great for them.
I can't see it changing

blewuporstuffed

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2013, 03:03:24 PM »
Re the holiday period,
I think moving it till the august fornight may be the way to go.This would correspond with All-Ireland qtr/semi finals if Tyrone were to get that far, a period were there are likely to be no club games anyway.
I would say for most club players, when the holiday period is, doesn't matter so much, as long as there is prior notice that its coming up.
I would say as many companies now take the august fortnight off as the July one anyway.
That would certainly make it easier and I know would suit a lot of players if they just knew for certain when they could book holidays and not have them clash, but I do know of some club players that can only take their holidays on those two weeks so it wouldn't be great for them.
I can't see it changing
yeah im sure there are people who cant take their holidays in august, but likewise there would be some that cant take them in july either.
You cant suit everyone.
The point is, alot of years there ends up being no football that august fornight anyway due to tyrone involvement,if it was the holiday period then, taht wouldnt matter so much.
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Under Lights

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2013, 03:33:02 PM »
Agree with BUOS here. I personally play the game but can't take my holidays in July fortnight. We close the August one. Swings and roundabouts.

There needs to be more flexibility on the rounds as well. There were times this year where rounds could of been swapped around to suit better but didn't happen.

Take a look at last weekend- a lot of reserve fixtures didn't go ahead. Hard to keep reserve players particularly at it with the long delays etc

blewuporstuffed

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2013, 08:08:45 PM »
Quote
There needs to be more flexibility on the rounds as well. There were times this year where rounds could of been swapped around to suit better but didn't happen.

this is one of the things that could have saved alot of problems this year.
Rigidly sticking to the 'rounds' of games leaves a inflexible system an dends up taking more time overall.
Only the last 3 rounds or so should be in strict rounds like that
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Fionntamhnach

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2013, 08:49:11 PM »
Re the holiday period,
I think moving it till the august fornight may be the way to go.This would correspond with allireland qtr/semi finals if tyrone were to get that far, a period were there are likely to be no club games anyway.
I would say for most club players, when the holiday period is, doesnt matter so much, as long as there is prior notice that its coming up.
I would say as many compnies now take the august fortnight off as the july one anyway.
Adding on from WeeDons estimated dates for the 2014 season, looking at previous dates for the All-Ireland series I reckon these will be the dates used in 2014...

Round 1 - Saturday 28th June (Should Tyrone reach the Ulster SFC Semi-Final, it'll be on the next day, 29th)
Round 2 - Saturday 12th July (Last year was the first time when all fixtures in this round was deliberately spread over two weekend, previously it was played on just one. If they remain to do this for 2014, then this round could also be on the 5th July).
Round 3 - Saturday 19th July (Ulster SFC Final is on 20th July. Unless Tyrone are knocked out in Round 1 or 2, they will be playing on this weekend)
Round 4 - Sat/Sun 26th or 27th July (yes, a potential six day turn around if Tyrone are the beaten Ulster finalists!)
Quarter Final - Sat/Sun 2nd or 3rd August.
Semi-Final - Sunday 24th or 31st August.

Looking at that list, if Tyrone were knocked out by either Down or Monaghan in Ulster, then if they reach Round 2 they'll be playing quite likely on the 12th July and it's a very good chance they'll be playing on the weekend of 19th/20th July. If you have the two week holiday period between Mon 7th July to Sun 20th July, it would be unlikely a non-starred round of league games could be fitted in during that period with the 13-day rule. OTOH if you had a two week holiday starting with a coincide of the southern August Bank Holiday, starting on either 2nd or 4th August and ending on the 15th or 17th August, you would miss out on a fairly free period between the All-Ireland Quarter and Semi-Final fixtures of something between three and four weeks - if for example Tyrone were to be playing in the first semi-final, even with the 13 day rule the 8th-10th August weekend will be free for club games (1st round of the SFC in my earlier suggestion). Assuming Tyrone get as far as the Quarter finals in the first place or even the semis (something we've only reached once in the last four years). On that basis alone, it would be fairly clear that keeping the current two week break in early-mid July would put less pressure, at least in theory, on club fixtures. Especially during the best time of the year to play such games. Understandably not everyone takes their holidays in July, with many preferring August, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

Quote
There needs to be more flexibility on the rounds as well. There were times this year where rounds could of been swapped around to suit better but didn't happen.

this is one of the things that could have saved alot of problems this year.
Rigidly sticking to the 'rounds' of games leaves a inflexible system an dends up taking more time overall.
Only the last 3 rounds or so should be in strict rounds like that
From about the start to middle of May until the end of August, there should be some grounds for flexibility with the extended daylight in the evenings for some ad-hoc midweek games to be played if agreed with the clubs involved especially if the travelling team doesn't have to go far. I'd also say that the last two or three rounds should be played together, but also the first two rounds as well - start the league together as well as finishing it. You'd want to make sure you keep some reign on fixtures piling up so there isn't a large gap between teams in the same division in the amount of games played at any point of the season, for example in the Fermanagh and Western soccer league it isn't uncommon for teams to have a difference of five or even six games played during the course of their season.
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Fionntamhnach

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2013, 09:54:00 PM »
I think most clubs would like a competitive league fixture inbetween the July break and their first Championship game, but if the July break is 7th-20th July inclusive, then we play a round of league fixtures the weekend of 26th/27th July and the following Saturday and Sunday (2nd & 3rd August) its the All-Ireland Quarter Finals.

So, have a round of league fixtures on 20th July, leaving the following weekend for the Championship first round? It eats into the July Holidays, but realistically managers would be organising challenge games that weekend anyway if the Championship was the following weekend
It would certainly appear to be that teams would be coming into the championship "cold" but you could argue that this applies to all clubs and shouldn't really advantage anyone, and by that stage you would hope to have had at least 10 league games played so managers should have at that stage a good idea of their line out for the championship game.

Also unless Tyrone are knocked out in Rounds 1 or 2 of the All-Ireland qualifier, they will be playing on the weekend of the 19th/20th July so that would restrict it to starred games only. If Tyrone are in Round 4, that'll likely be on the 26th/27th July and the Quarter finals the following weekend. The 13 day rule, even if Tyrone win the Ulster SFC and go straight into the All-Ireland Quarter Finals, will mean that there is a high chance of no non-starred league games being played in most of July. Unless Tyrone were involved in a quarter final replay, the 8th-10th August will be free for clubs. What you could potentially do is that if Tyrone either win the Ulster SFC or get beyond the All-Ireland third round, have 1st round club championship games which aren't affected by players on the county panels (most likely to be JFC ties) on the 25th-27th July with remaining ties on 8th-10th August. Those two weekends should help clear up most if not all the 24 1st round games and keep a reasonable road clear for later championship ties to be fixed so the winners can go on to Ulster with a reasonable breather of two weeks minimum, depending on the draw. An alternative is if Tyrone are out of the All-Ireland after round 3, the first lock of club championship games can be played on the 1st-3rd August and have the 27th July down for a full round of league games.

As I said earlier once the end of July comes that is when things start getting tricky because you don't know what's going to happen.

A double round of fixtures would help, but I'd be reluctant to do this for BOTH the May bank holidays. Simply because i enjoy my bank holiday weekends and think it would be unfair to use up both of them for football.
I'd definitely be keen on the Reserve game being played the night before, as if its 'put off until another date' it rarely gets played
Understandable about the Bank Holidays. There are two alternatives, one is that clubs would have the option of playing the Sunday fixture on the Monday evening instead to give a bit of a breather both on and off the field. The other alternative is to take the second double weekend suggestion of mine and postpone the Friday game until 30th May with the Sunday fixture on 1st June. If Tyrone beat Down in the Ulster SFC the quarter final against Monaghan is 15th June, so this would fall outside the 13 day rule to not affect starred fixtures.

As for the reserve game being played on a later date, I reckon it wouldn't be too difficult - fix the reserve tie between the two teams for the following Friday evening.

* If Tyrone are fortunate enough to reach the All-Ireland Semi-Final this year again, it should be the case that if an All-County League round of fixtures can't be played, the reserve league should continue on to its conclusion on Friday or Saturday evenings when that is the case from Friday 22nd August onwards with the first round of reserve championship games taking place on the 15th-17th August after the Senior/Intermediate/Junior Football Championship first round games played. Any Reserve championship game around this time from the quarter finals onwards should be fitted around fixtures where by there is at a minimum a two day gap from any league game. The senior part of the respective round of fixtures can be played later on, meaning (a) reserve players can get their season wrapped up quicker without being affected by county teams, (b) less likelyhood of walkovers being conceded in the reserve league, and (c) for the corresponding senior fixtures that may take place in October or November, the lack of a prior reserve game means the playing field should be in a better condition especially in poor weather.
Totally agree. Lets get this passed at the county convention...
It wouldn't be too difficult to implement if you went to the last round of games on the fixture list and worked backwards from there. Say for example in Division 3, the 22nd August game should be the corresponding Round 16 fixture (assuming it hasn't been played yet), 29th August is Round 15, 5th September is Round 14 and so on so if a round of ACL games came up it'll still be possible to have the "traditional" double reserve/senior fixture that weekend if such a round of games is still available and keep fixture planning sort of half-predictable.
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WeeDonns

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Re: Tyrone Club Fixtures 2014 - Lets try and help them sort it out
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2013, 07:56:17 AM »
I think now we're seeing how difficult this can be...

If we persevere with this I think we can come up with a decent blueprint

I'll apply Fionntamhnach's suggestions to the Calendars and upload later