Author Topic: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3  (Read 31341 times)

Tony

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #420 on: March 20, 2017, 11:45:36 PM »
Regular poor discipline, from a variety of players, is a major management failure.
Not striking someone in the face is more basic than hopping and soloing. And you don't expect new management to come in and teach the lads how to hop and solo now, do you. By your logic Alex Ferguson is responsible for Roy Keane pole axing Alfie Haland and trying to break his legs as well as 7 other red card offences? And I thought drinking stopped on Sunday. What about that time Cantona kung fu kicked the palace supporter and regularly got yellow and red cards? Yep, Fergies fault.

Laoisonic

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #421 on: March 20, 2017, 11:47:17 PM »
Conceding 7/8 points or so every game from frees due to persistent fouling and poor discipline in defense is a coaching problem. Players should drilled enough to cut that out during matches. But im talking about 3 red cards in 5 games.
Getting a straight red card for striking an opposition player isn't exactly the managers fault? These lads are senior inter county players, they and aren't under 14. I dont think they have to be told.

Keyser Söze

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #422 on: March 21, 2017, 12:46:23 AM »
Regular poor discipline, from a variety of players, is a major management failure.
Not striking someone in the face is more basic than hopping and soloing. And you don't expect new management to come in and teach the lads how to hop and solo now, do you. By your logic Alex Ferguson is responsible for Roy Keane pole axing Alfie Haland and trying to break his legs as well as 7 other red card offences? And I thought drinking stopped on Sunday. What about that time Cantona kung fu kicked the palace supporter and regularly got yellow and red cards? Yep, Fergies fault.

This is the thing Tony my dear friend.
You claim to be ok with criticism of Creedon and that your issue is that people are calling for his head NOW. I have made it clear that I am not calling for his head now, yet you cannot take criticism of him!

Are you implying that playing with 14 players in so many of your competitive games is normal/acceptable?
Do you not think that management have a major say in a team's discipline?
If this was a different manager, such as last years one, these incidents would partially be blamed on a lack of respect among the players for management. You keep telling us how highly the players regard this fella. You don't continuously let somebody who have the height of respect for down. Something doesn't add up there.

Criticism of Creedon is not treason or burying our heads in the sand. I speak for myself and have made it clear why I am critical of him.
He is well "compensated". I don't expect him to work miracles. But he has had long enough to have basic things like discipline in place.
There is a serious lack of discipline there. The league is almost over.
That is not good enough.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.......

Don Draper

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #423 on: March 21, 2017, 08:45:52 AM »
We would have 6 points if it wasn't for poor discipline.
Probably at least 8 if it wasn't for an injury list as long and more detrimental on any Laois team that I can remember.
Yes we have serious problems. Another poor U21 campaign highlighted that further, but Creedon is not one of them.

I must be the only one who thinks it, but as far as I am concerned that is a massive contradiction.

Regular poor discipline, from a variety of players, is a major management failure. It is a matter which requires no talent and does not depend on opposition performance. It should be easily resolved where this is respect and high standards.

If management cannot address this over the course of 5-6 months that raises serious questions, to my mind!
A bit of personal f**king responsibility wouldn't go astray. Poor discipline is nothing new with any Laois panel sadly. I was slated for saying how idiotic and costly Meaney's act was against Sligo, it seems its just more of the f**king same.

redsetanta

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #424 on: March 21, 2017, 09:07:31 AM »
It was interesting to read Jack Nolans piece where he said that the players are happy with management and management seems to be happy with the players there is a problem. The quote is below.

'Of course the players are putting in a huge effort and sacrifice at training but if the players are happy with the management and the management happy with the players then there is something seriously wrong with the performances on the field.

There is no shape to the team. There is no describing the type of football they are playing in positive terms'
The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. VinceLombardi

Tony

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #425 on: March 21, 2017, 09:30:03 AM »
I'll tell you why we're underperforming on the field. Because we have 6-8 lads on the team who work hard but don't have the ability required. And other players working harder to cover for them. In addition, we've a lot of players playing out of position, clearly. These players are not to blame, they're trying hard, but the reality is that poor shooting, poor discipline and decision making is mainly an individuals fault. I can try all day to coach someone to play the way I want them to play ALL DAY LONG, but if they don't have the required ability, I'm going to fail. The only way this season is going to turn around somewhat is to get our injured, best players back and fit, ASAP. That's just the long and short of it.

Don Draper

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #426 on: March 21, 2017, 09:36:32 AM »
I'll tell you why we're underperforming on the field. Because we have 6-8 lads on the team who work hard but don't have the ability required. And other players working harder to cover for them. In addition, we've a lot of players playing out of position, clearly. These players are not to blame, they're trying hard, but the reality is that poor shooting, poor discipline and decision making is mainly an individuals fault. I can try all day to coach someone to play the way I want them to play ALL DAY LONG, but if they don't have the required ability, I'm going to fail. The only way this season is going to turn around somewhat is to get our injured, best players back and fit, ASAP. That's just the long and short of it.
I would suggest our big players aren't doing enough. Players who should have grabbed the thing by the scruff of the next some years ago, haven't. I'm not simply relating that to this year, but the last 5-10 years. There is no reason why we should not be doing what the likes of Monaghan are doing. But we have a CB who know where they want to go, but can't even decide how to get off the chair to get us there, and players, who for whatever reason, haven't grabbed the f**king thing by the throat and as a result, have had lesser careers than they could or should have.

In the meantime, we have slowly begun slipping down the rankings, with no discernible hope about how we can or when we can return. The decline is not terminable, but its difficult to see how it could be stopped. Also, if all these coaches who are being touted as the answers, are out there, then why haven't they been getting involved in our development squads? Does everyone want to be handed a senior job from the off nowadays?

Giovanni

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #427 on: March 21, 2017, 11:48:47 AM »
I'll tell you why we're underperforming on the field. Because we have 6-8 lads on the team who work hard but don't have the ability required. And other players working harder to cover for them. In addition, we've a lot of players playing out of position, clearly. These players are not to blame, they're trying hard, but the reality is that poor shooting, poor discipline and decision making is mainly an individuals fault. I can try all day to coach someone to play the way I want them to play ALL DAY LONG, but if they don't have the required ability, I'm going to fail. The only way this season is going to turn around somewhat is to get our injured, best players back and fit, ASAP. That's just the long and short of it.
I would suggest our big players aren't doing enough. Players who should have grabbed the thing by the scruff of the next some years ago, haven't. I'm not simply relating that to this year, but the last 5-10 years. There is no reason why we should not be doing what the likes of Monaghan are doing. But we have a CB who know where they want to go, but can't even decide how to get off the chair to get us there, and players, who for whatever reason, haven't grabbed the f**king thing by the throat and as a result, have had lesser careers than they could or should have.

In the meantime, we have slowly begun slipping down the rankings, with no discernible hope about how we can or when we can return. The decline is not terminable, but its difficult to see how it could be stopped. Also, if all these coaches who are being touted as the answers, are out there, then why haven't they been getting involved in our development squads? Does everyone want to be handed a senior job from the off nowadays?

I would agree with most of this. I don't know enough about what the County Board is doing or not doing but I do think that the senior players in the group haven't shown great leadership (including discipline) at key times. Although Meaney was very unfortunate in Sligo, a pattern of bad discipline is evident. Discipline here is not just about red and yellow cards - it's about having the mindset to do the right thing at the right time (and this especially is the case when lads are making tackles).

Reading some of the posts above, you would think that the manager has nothing at all to do with the performances on the field. However, the players have to take responsibility too. Even with the long injury list, if we're properly prepared and have the right mindset, we should be competitive in Division 3 regardless of the injuries.

les Antiques

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #428 on: March 21, 2017, 01:44:48 PM »
We can discuss the problems and issues about Laois football all day long but relagation to Division 4 and the detrimental affect it will have on football in this county is the most worrying aspect .
Currently I don't this Laois team beating Longford on Saturday . I would love to be proven wrong .
Creedon has two big games left and the consequences of losing either will leave him in a very difficult position .
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 01:57:10 PM by les Antiques »

High Fielder

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #429 on: March 21, 2017, 02:06:35 PM »
Our county is divided in two; hurling and football. Comparisons with Monaghan are wide of the mark because they pay lip service to hurling. Dual counties are struggling, Cork included, and unless you have a huge population base, you will be on the back foot. It's a numbers game and we don't have them. Suck it up because it isn't going to change even with Jim McGuinness, Jim Gavin or Eamon Fitzmaurice in charge. Our Club Championship is shite and the players coming out of it are not good enough. It's as simple as that really, and as long as you try to give reputations to players that are undeserving, you will continue to bang your head off the wall. Half the people on here don't even go to matches, particularly away ones, and I know this because I am nearly on first name terms with everyone that does. So if you believe in them, at least go and support them and put your money and time where your mouth is. otherwise, give it a break. I've read some vomit on this forum since Sunday

OTF

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #430 on: March 21, 2017, 02:50:30 PM »
Our county is divided in two; hurling and football. Comparisons with Monaghan are wide of the mark because they pay lip service to hurling. Dual counties are struggling, Cork included, and unless you have a huge population base, you will be on the back foot. It's a numbers game and we don't have them. Suck it up because it isn't going to change even with Jim McGuinness, Jim Gavin or Eamon Fitzmaurice in charge. Our Club Championship is shite and the players coming out of it are not good enough. It's as simple as that really, and as long as you try to give reputations to players that are undeserving, you will continue to bang your head off the wall. Half the people on here don't even go to matches, particularly away ones, and I know this because I am nearly on first name terms with everyone that does. So if you believe in them, at least go and support them and put your money and time where your mouth is. otherwise, give it a break. I've read some vomit on this forum since Sunday

I'm not in a position to attend many games anymore and I depend on this forum and a number of posters whose judgement I've come to trust regarding players coming through etc.(yourself included HF)
Now it's no surprise to me that we're struggling right now as we're down a few players and what's coming through are just not at the required standard.
Just one example, the first team named for the league this year, there were 5 starters who weren't on anyone's radar ...that's ridiculous lads on here know every player in the country and none of theses players were mentioned as starters.
Ok we have a few injuries but players coming in ARE going to be our top players next year or the year after... does that thought scare anyone.
The club championship is shite many believe and needs to be restructured and that's the reason the players are poor, I think it's the other way around poor players will never make a good championship.
Will div 4 be a disaster or a wake up call, who knows but even if we start right now it will take 10 years ...scary.

Don Draper

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #431 on: March 21, 2017, 02:50:38 PM »
Our county is divided in two; hurling and football. Comparisons with Monaghan are wide of the mark because they pay lip service to hurling.
Laois has a greater population than Monaghan, by about 20% or so. We have the numbers to be doing better, that is the only reason I mention them, they are what we should aim for. Once upon a time we were what others aimed for, but its time to forget those days, as they are so far gone, its almost like it never happened, and no amount of old youtube videos will bring it back.

That we aren't doing better is down to the CB. The bigger towns are also culpable of course, the returns we are getting from them all are almost embarrassing. I couldnt give two f**ks for Jim McGuinness, much like Ger Loughnane, he could be shit in another county for all we know, and besides, he's not coming, not a f**king hope is he coming. We need to mobilise ourselves. we need passionate men, who know how to achieve results. Wooly has said it ad nauseum that the people in charge of CB's arent qualified for the job outside the bigger counties and he's right. I've criticised Croke Park in the past for not providing more funding, but what would be the point at the moment you'd wonder. It'd simply be throwing good money after bad.

People can take cuts off Creedon all they like, but the truth is, there was no obvious candidate in Laois, up to the job. I have no idea if Creedon is, but he's in the job now. We'd be better off figuring out why we're not getting managers coming through, why the people being mentioned here aren't in Development squads, and what happened the likes of Rooney and Conroy who seemed to be making decent strides.

And finally, people not going to matches? Well, thats a question as old as time, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Give them the team to follow, and they'll follow it. Its tough on the players, but they have a role to play in this too. There's a lot of distractions nowadays, and you need to build the bandwagon, horrible and all a words as that is. If the product is shit, the public won't buy it. Its a sad truth of modern society. But give them something to root for, and you'll see, they'll return.

Relegation through 3 divisions, losses to Antrim, Clare, Tipperary, etc in recent years, that won't float any bandwagon. Sad, but true.

blueandwhite1

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #432 on: March 21, 2017, 03:23:42 PM »
Ulster Minor football championship:

2013   Monaghan 4–10   Tyrone 2–14
2012   Tyrone 0–14   Monaghan 1-8


Ulster U21 football championship:
2016   Monaghan 0-13   Tyrone 0-11

This might help people understand how Monaghan remain competitive. Not a magic wand manager or trying to coach lads at 24 years of age how to handpass a ball or track a runner.

Saying that, we are not as bad as current results suggest. Our best footballers, which came from good underage structures haven't existed for a few years, are still good by any standard. The problem is with the fringe players and the younger guys coming through to take the place of the lads who are leaving.

Hard to argue that Brody, Timmons, Begley, Attride, Strong, Lillis, Quigley, Meaney, D. Kingston, Evan O'Carroll, Niall Donoher, John O'Loughlin are not intercounty standard. There are a few more such as young Moore with potential and David Conway is showing up well. The two problems we have are that not even a large subset of this group have been on the field at the same time this year and that the lads in to replace them are either too junior or not nearly up to standard. Creedon is trying to find some gems from the U21 panel but not too many are showing up well yet. Add all this together and you have a team without confidence with their backs to the wall.

Laois fan

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #433 on: March 21, 2017, 03:31:38 PM »
It always seems to be the case that whenever Laois are in underperforming it's the club championships fault.Well the county has nearly sole access to over 30 county players from November  to the following July with the clubs then getting them back for 2 months and now you have zero access to your county minors till they finish which was August last year in Laois .My point is with  prob over 80% of their time spent in with county panels it's not the clubs fault for us underperforming at moment

steven seagal

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Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« Reply #434 on: March 21, 2017, 04:22:53 PM »
This notion that it is our club championship's fault we have a poor senior team is a load of sh*te. It is not up to the club championship to provide players to our senior intercounty team, that's what your development squads, minor and U-21 teams are for. It must be the guts of ten years since we beat any of Dublin, Meath or Kildare at minor or U-21 level. That drought is now playing out at senior level.

For the majority of players coming through, their sole experience of intercounty football is limited to a handful of minor and U-21 Leinster championship games, against the likes of Louth, Wicklow, Longford etc. They are hopelessly under-prepared for senior football, and that is what we are seeing now. It should be no surprise to anyone who has paid attention to our results at underage level for the last decade or so that our senior team are headed for Division 4.